MR.WaynesWorld

Under 280....

~Maverick

The credit to get everyone THAT particular type spoiler VERY much belongs to Stu, and to Chris as well..both helped, but it was Stu that set things in progress. Sadly, it appears helping other Corvetters find a great item at a great price...simply looking out for and helping others is a frowned upon practice.

Another Vendor complained (someone did), although THEIR item is completely different, looks different, different material (Heavier), and is not even manufactured and ready to be sold yet...and costs more. Stu's Thread was locked...

I have the same ACS spoiler on my Car..I LOVE IT! I can't say or even suggest where you could get this ACS spoiler...but there are still 8 available as of this moment, telling others of different options is a 'forbidden' thing!

I love MANY of the vendors on this board...but just because they are a Vendor goes NOT mean they are the BEST place place to get your stuff, simply an OPTION...Some(but NOT all) Vendors here charge wayyy more than you can get the same items, or ever BETTER item, for elsewhere. I'm sorry, but SOME of the Vendor 'Sales' are anything BUT a sale...This forum will "shut you down" if you send someone else business that a Vendor sees as "Theirs"...it USED to be about Corvetters helping Corvetters, now it's about keeping the Forum Vendors happy...NOT the members that BUY the stuff and want choice. All I can say is this is getting out of hand and I'm sad to see this board has become so heavy handed...

Be the 1st to become a Forum Vendor selling something Corvettes use and you have a lock on THIS corvetteforum.com market...better or cheaper items will be squashed, silenced, you have an 'approved' source...use it! The 'rules' for posting items have even been changed...NOW, you are not even allowed to use Private Messages to send friends links to items or tell them of other places where you can get items that work better or are selling cheaper....sounds like anything but Freedom to me! Hopefully my 1st Amendment right of Free Speech will not be shut down as well.

~Maverick

~Maverick

Under $250. for the spoiler, under $285. shipped and delivered. We can't tell you where to get them though...to link, or tell you, means THIS thread will be closed as well...all we can say is there ARE other options...forbidden options! This is BS!

Here is the spoiler on my Car...I think someone asked for pics...

~Maverick

CyberGSDude

By Maverick: "NOW, you are not even allowed to use Private Messages to send friends links to items or tell them of other places where you can get items that work better or are selling cheaper"

Is this really in the rules???

Congrats on the purchase Mongo! Post pics when you got them!


Chris

10U 99

I almost screwed around and missed this batch like I did last time. they go quickly.

THIS is my last mod!

that's my story, and I'm sticking to it!!

GRUNIE

Yea, right...

MR.WaynesWorld

I try to say that all the time.....

~Maverick

It is NOT in the rules as they have them written, but Grumpy or one of the other mods, DID recently close a thread and state that it's not ok to use PM's to do anything you can't do openly in a thread, such as telling others of a better item at a cheaper price, or of an ebay sale. That's the same as saying we are not allowed to use PM's to send private info....the sad thing is, PM's were NOT used to send eBay links, simply sent to people that had ASKED to be notified when a certain item was actually listed. It was nothing more than a simple "Hey, such and such an item is going to be listed, if you want one of these items we're letting you know, as there is a very limited supply" I'll try to find where this was stated, but as I read it, the rules DO NOT say you can't use PM's to tell others of sales elsewhere....BUT, Stu's thread being locked YET AGAIN is proof enough that it's not about good items at good prices and helping others...rather, vendor protection from outside sales, and here is the bad part...that Vendor with the group purchase does NOT even have it available, it's still being made, they have NOTHING to sell as yet.

Stu's thread stole NONE of their business...no one in his thread EVER told someone to either buy or not buy anything, it was simply some guys trying to help others out...trying to help others that wanted something know where to look and when. You were part of that thread, it was never out to 'thwart' the rules, the thread made NUMEROUS comments to others to NOT post links to the item as it would get the thread locked, great care was taken to simply help others obtain an excellent part at a superior price.

I CHECKED with Mongolink before posting ANY of this, he says I'm not hijacking his thread, he's just glad he managed to get a spoiler before the Mods decided to play games again...BTW, there are only 3 left now...err, I just checked...only 2 remain....

~Maverick

Mongolink

The point of the thread was to thank those responsible for getting these to us... STU and Chris. It is however ashamed that the other thread has been jerked with like it was... locked by one mod that was at least open mided enough to see what was really happening there and reopened... Now the next Moderator comes along and needs to flex that mighty power weilding hammer and lock it back up without appearently talking to the original moderator that was in the know on this thread and doing the right thing... All he needed to do was read the thread!!!

Clearly the members have no interest in playing these games and as long as the power struggle continues this forum will continue it's slide into oblivion and all those that really care about our passion will soon be looking at a blue screen !!!

Again to Stu and Chris and I hope we can continue to do buisness here and take care of each other...

Mongo

JohnTheStigGalt

I suspect this one will be locked as well since complaining about the rules certainly isn't tolerated either, unless you do it in PM to the moderators...

I've fought the issue many times regarding what I call "Hey, look what I found" posts. See my posts here and here. [The second is eBay specific]. As you can see, I understand your position. Interestingly, I've sent similar posts to the mods over the years (including Savewave) and the rule has remained unamended.

Tstar and I ran into the same issue with our SpeedHut gauge thread, despite the fact that no one on the forum sold (or much less anticipated producing) anything close, but the mods called it a 'group buy' and shut it down. It wasn't a group buy, nor were any of us profiting or attempting to profit - it was just Corvette enthusiasts trying to tell other Corvette enthusiasts about a cool product.

Having said all that, I do think the spoiler situation is slightly different, and I can understand the moderator's concern. [Incidentally, the post was 'competing' with the group buy that TKO Performance was having on a similar spoiler (I'm not talking about Sal's design). Granted, that one is also fiberglass instead of plastic, AND DOUBLE the price of the ACS one, but at least TKO's is already being produced and something they ostensibly possess.] Clearly, none of the folks talking about this were attempting to personally profit from the posts, but there apparently was significant direct coordination going on between the vendor and some posters. There was also, no doubt, reliance by the vendor on the 'grass-roots' advertising here that drove the continued production. ACS was essentially enjoying the benefits of being a forum vendor without paying the fees (which are crazy high, IMO, but that's another issue), which isn't fair to those that do pay.

At the end of the day, there is no 'First Amendment' concern here -- a private entity can interfere with your speech all day long. However, the mods have to strike a balance, since overly restricting the exchange of information will drive away the end-user, and it's the end-user (and the huge amount of traffic from them) that attracts the forum vendor money in the first place; while at the same time, if they allow complete open use of the forum, no vendor would be willing to pay the fees, and therefore the forum would shut down...

I certainly don't envy the mods position, even if I sometimes disagree with them.

Cheers,
Vaughn

AU N EGL

Last mod???


Yah Right . . . .



Good Looking spoilers guys

rwlc5

I ordered one today. There was only one left. Thanks guys.

DropTheTop

What you may not be aware of, is that TKO posted in Stu's thread! Why is that ok? Talk about hijacking!

It's hard for people to know the whole truth, when so many of the posts have been deleted. Oh well.

CyberGSDude

Very well said Maverick and SeaLawyer!

I will save my rant for SaveWave.

Something has got to give.......for the better I hope!

BALANCE BALANCE BALANCE

Congrats to all that have aquired their spoiler!

dobewillie

congrats to you guys who are gettin them they look really good might have to sweet talk ole money bags so i can get one

savewave

I’ve gotten PMs from a couple of you about this thread and Jesse (Cor07vette) passed along another.

Here’s the issue as I see it:

Stuzvette wanted a mini-spoiler and couldn’t find one that suited him.

If you went to the trouble to read each of the 800-something posts in this thread (which I’ll admit I haven’t done), I think what you’d find is that Stuzvette went to some trouble to track down the vendor who used to sell the spoiler he liked and talked the vendor into making a batch of them.

For whatever reason, the vendor didn’t want to become a supporting vendor to offer a group purchase at Corvetteforum. I’m not clear on the details of what that was. As far as I know, nobody ever contacted us to see if arrangements could be made for a group purchase arrangement.

When we have gotten requests like that in the past, we’ve tried to work with the vendor and the Forum members who wanted the item to find a way to make it happen. The rules allow group purchase threads only by supporting vendors.

The marketing and promotion of these spoilers continued in this thread, presumably under the premise that such a group purchase was okay so long as it was hinted at in the open thread and only occasional references were made to say that the spoilers could be purchased on eBay. It appears that a number of batches of the spoilers were produced and sold through the marketing done in this and other threads on the same product.

Obviously there is confusion about the Forum’s rules on eBay references, but I’ll circle back to that later because there are so many “experts” on this rule that even the site’s moderators are confused and ask what the rule is with some regularity.

I see that several have asserted with authority that the issue with this thread is that it was shut down because of complaints from supporting vendors. Actually, the truth is we have heard from no supporting vendors regarding the thread.

The core issue is that Corvetteforum’s long-standing policy, reflected in the rules, is that we don’t allow the site to be used to market and promote commercial sales except by supporting vendors. Period. No exceptions. If we allow exceptions, then everybody wants an exception and then there is no need for any supporting vendors.

Would it surprise you to know that one of the most frequent issues Forum moderators encounter is people coming onto the site to engage in commercial sales? Some of them are pretty open about it and will acknowledge they didn’t read the rules they promised to follow when they registered.

Others simply try to disguise the fact they are engaged in commercial sales. If they continue after being warned, they are banned. A lot of times they come back and re-register using another name. We have one non-supporting vendor who has registered maybe a dozen different user IDs and has left a lot of Forum members in the lurch because he failed to send what they paid for or sent inferior goods. We’ll continue to ban him each time we spot him.

Sometimes Forum members will tell us they aren’t really engaged in commercial sales because what they are doing is part-time work out of their homes and they don’t make much money doing it. We have worked with a number of people like that to give them low, introductory rates to help them get started as a supporting vendor and to see if there was sufficient interest in their products or services to warrant continuing at regular rates.

At least one person I can think of is now engaged full-time in a Corvette business as a result of that process.

Some of the Forum’s supporting vendors have told us at times that they don’t like the fact that we allow Forum members to mention non-supporting vendors they use and have gotten good service and value from. The rules allow that so long as the references to the non-supporting vendor are not so specific (URLs, phone numbers, e-mail addresses, etc.) and so frequent that they become guerrilla marketing.

Some of the supporting vendors also complain from time to time because we allow Forum members to post do-it-yourself threads that allow those with skill and patience to get the same results on their own as an alternative to buying a product or service from a supporting vendor. The Forum’s rules don’t prohibit DIY posts unless, perhaps, they are posted in a supporting vendor’s sale thread.

It's seems to be a common practice among folks who prefer to do things their way, rather than abiding by the rules of the site (the same rules they agreed to follow as a condition of having their registrations activated), to vilify the site, its moderators and its owners when they run afoul of the rules.

God bless America, where we have Constitutional rights. A few of you are prone to say the Forum has abridged your First Amendment rights by requiring you to follow site rules. If you feel so strongly about Constitutional rights, then why would you abridge the site owner’s property rights to set and enforce rules?

Corvetteforum.com isn’t a public utility supported by tax dollars. It was established as a private business in 1999 on the premise that supporting vendors might be willing to pay to engage in commercial sales on the site and that they would be willing to pay the bandwidth expenses of the site so it would be free to the rest of us.

If you owned a retail business and I walked into your store and set up a table to sell items I made, would you let me do that because I had First Amendment rights or because I had a really cool product that people wanted? No, you might try to cut a deal with me to pay for the space I was occupying, but I don’t think you’d let me stay there and use your overhead for my exclusive benefit.

On to the eBay issue. I told you I know there is confusion about it because the moderators ask me to remind them what the policy is on a regular basis. The chronology is that we imposed a no-eBay policy some years ago when Forum members complained that people were listing items or cars for sale here and then linking to the same items or cars in an eBay auction.

It didn't seem fair, they said, that they had to compete with all of the eBay bidders on an item or car that was listed for sale on Corvetteforum. But then experience showed Forum members sometimes would post a link or a reference to something on eBay, not because they were trying to sell something, but just because they spotted something interesting they wanted to share with other Forum members. So, we relaxed the rule somewhat.

We routinely remove links and references to eBay auction, including those posted by supporting vendors to sell their own products. We routinely leave eBay links and references when it involves sharing information with fellow Forum members about something that is interesting – a “rare” Corvette that really isn’t rare, a guy selling all of his wife’s clothes because he discovered she is shacked up with her boss in a hotel on the other side of the country, an alert on what appears to be a scam involving and/or potentially affecting Corvetteforum members.

I don't have a problem with people posting a link to an eBay sale so long as the purpose of the thread is not to sell something.

The ACA mini-spoiler sale, although ostensibly under-the-table, is in conflict with the site's rules. If the vendor is willing to work with us, rather than bypassing us, I'll do my best to get him a favorable arrangement on the sale of his products here. If his motive is purely altruistic, we'll work a deal where he can auction the products here on the Forum with the proceeds going to St. Jude Children's Research Hospital.

But please don’t do an end-run on the rules and then blame the moderators or the supporting vendors for being conspirators in the effort to abridge your God-given and constitutionally protected rights.

If you made it this far, I hope I haven’t told you more than you wanted to hear, but I appreciate your patience. If you have questions or concerns, let us know via PMs or e-mail – as per Forum rules.