My brother just had his car modded by Callaway to 580 H.P.and while he was there I asked him to check on long tube and short tube headers. I nedde shorties because of emissions. He was told by someone at Callaway that the difference is only about 4 - 7 H.P. and to forget about the ads. Has anyone had experience like this, long tube ver. short tube?

 

Maybe a difference of 4-7 HP shorties vs. stock manifolds. Longtubes gave me 40 RWHP on a header change alone (2001 Z06). Longtubes are the only way to go. If you can't, stay stock and quiet.

 

Shorties gained about 11 H.P. and the long tubes about 17 H.P. this is all before a tune. Believe me I am an advocate for the long tubes but my hands are tied because of emissions.

 

I don't know what the rest of the system was like but long tubes at the motor got me 50 HP or so. Shorties are almost no change from stock. This is documented all over the forum and web.....

Either way, if you can't get longtubes, I wouldn't worry about changing at all, as I mentioned. Shorties will only make more noise.

 

I don't buy it (that shorties gained anything noticeable).

It's well documented on all the forums, long tubes are the way to go if you want gains worth paying for (inclduing labor)


i live in Cali and we have strict emissions, and mine is a daily driver

 

To my understanding, shorties HP gains are really only shown by the manufactures. ie they dont help much.

Stick the the stock manifold. they are actually quite good.

 

In our testing, we typically recorded a difference of 8 to 10 bhp in dyno testing. I suppose that could be where the 4 to 7 hp came from, at the wheels. With an MSRP of $1,350, plus a few hours of installation labor, we had a difficult time justifying the expense to our customers. Ultimately, we bit the bullet and discontinued the product.

Unfortunately, long tube headers relocate the catalytic converters and the EPA considers the relocation on any street-driven vehicle to be "Tampering", a violation of the Clean Air Act. Since they treat Callaway as a "low-volume vehicle manufacturer", not a product manufacturer, an installer or a tuner, they monitor our practices. Callaway cannot offer, or even recommend, long tube headers for a street-driven application. Obviously, this hasn't been a problem for installers or private individuals. It's sort of like we have a different set of rules to live by.

We're very careful to meet federal emissions regulation requirements. During the Twin Turbo days, an exhaust system improvement cost Callaway heavy fines and a recall. In the first Twin Turbo Corvettes we built for Chevrolet, Callaway removed the Chevy converters and replaced them with higher flow, more efficient converters from a German car application. Because they weren't the OEM, certified Chevrolet converters, the EPA considered this to be "Tampering". Callaway had to retrofit several cars with OEM Corvette converters.

 

I am greatful for the input, but I do not want to break the law because of the 10,000 dollar fine someone got at a local muffler shop. I'll go with the shorties for the weight savings of about 22 pounds and get a tune. At $519 for the BBK shorties and $400 for a tune, I figure even if I only get 20 H.P. and stay legal it's worth it.

 

EPA - what a waste. They're not about cleaning the air - they are about one thing - $$$$$$.

 

You can get 20 HP from just a tune.... It's also what you'll get from a tune AND shorties.....

 

TONS of people run lobg tubes in Cali. I'm not worried about it.

 

How do people get past the inspections with the long tubes? I really would like to know because then the long tubes are a no brainer and they would be on the car already.

 

I have LT headers and don't worry about it.


Where in Cali are you?

 

I dont know about California... For Xmas I just had long tube LG headers with low restriction cats, X-pipe and Bullets put on. With a tune I picked up 40+ hp. No inspection problems. Street legal. Luv em.

 

I,m not in Cali. I'm in Gwinnett County Georgia, the tax capital of the world. They are very **** about emissions, worse than Massachusettes.

 

Thanks for the input from the Callaway camp... I didn't know you guys don't use headers on any of yoru packages.

If I lived in an area that had visual inspections I'd go w/ shorties for the looks and weight savings alone.

In Va Beach they simply plug into the OBD-II port and scan for codes... no codes = sticker

 

That's the way we do it west of the ATL as well. only mine is still throwing a code for the rear O2 sensors, but i don't have to get a tag until next november, so I got time to tune it out.

 

you find a shop that doesn't care about visual inspections. My shop just cares what the emissions are, if it passes it passes, if it doesn't it doesn't.

Yeah I've had asses get under the car with a flashlight, but they are the minority.

 

Because of where they sit in the car, even seeing the headers is tough, and they look enough like the stock early tube manifolds if they aren't coated that they would be a real pain for a visual smog inspection to see unless they were looking for them and knew what to look for. You can barely see them in my car and with the miles they look like a stock part, unlike the Hooker Super Comp coated ones on my C4 which might as well have a neon sign pointing at them.

 

Ain't that a bitch, Hooker does another thing right with the coatings.