thinking about an engine change
Race Director
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From: "It's 106 miles to Chicago, we've got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and
St. Jude Donor '03-'04-'05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15-'16-'17-‘18-'19
NCM Sinkhole Donor
The LS3 is a great motor - without a doubt, but I believe you're going to encounter issues with compatibility on electronics.
Personally - I would go with an LS6 swap which will go much easier, since it was designed for the C5 electronics. You could do a mild cam and heads with an LS6 crate motor and accomplish the same horsepower output.
It's probably in the range of about 12 hours of shop time, so you might start calling around and asking shop rates. Don't forget to have a professional tune on the engine to maximize driveability and performance.
Personally - I would go with an LS6 swap which will go much easier, since it was designed for the C5 electronics. You could do a mild cam and heads with an LS6 crate motor and accomplish the same horsepower output.
It's probably in the range of about 12 hours of shop time, so you might start calling around and asking shop rates. Don't forget to have a professional tune on the engine to maximize driveability and performance.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 9,526
Likes: 12
From: Los Angeles California
LS1 to LS6 swap isn't worth the money. And the LS1 block is actually a bit stronger because the cylinder walls aren't as thin. Heads/Cam on the LS1 would be smarter than that swap.
However, the LS3 should go in just fine into the 04 as long as the computer's coming with it. The LS3 uses a 58x reluctor and the LS1/LS6 uses a 24x reluctor. So the computers aren't compatible. But if the LS3 computer is installed, there shouldn't be any problems.
However, the LS3 should go in just fine into the 04 as long as the computer's coming with it. The LS3 uses a 58x reluctor and the LS1/LS6 uses a 24x reluctor. So the computers aren't compatible. But if the LS3 computer is installed, there shouldn't be any problems.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,164
Likes: 7
From: CA
pace performance has 2 versions of the Ls3
1. the stock one.376/430 hp 6,189$
2. the 480 hp with a hotter cam376/480 hp 6,529$
The ls7 is 13,600 .
I think 6,500.00 is not bad for a new engine with a 24 month warranty.
1. the stock one.376/430 hp 6,189$
2. the 480 hp with a hotter cam376/480 hp 6,529$
The ls7 is 13,600 .
I think 6,500.00 is not bad for a new engine with a 24 month warranty.
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Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,164
Likes: 7
From: CA
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 9,526
Likes: 12
From: Los Angeles California
Depends on the heads/cam package, the exhaust you go with, and the tune.
You live in CA where exhaust is a problem (nothing carb certified that I've found). So that's going to be a limiting factor unless you find a smog shop that understands the "wink".
Heads/Cam alone will be around 60-80RWHP
Depending on the cam you get, you'll need a tune.
With tuning on - say - a TSP 233/239 cam with Stage 2.5 LS6 heads, you'll probably see 410 to the wheels. With full exhaust, maybe 430 to the wheels.
The LS3 is only going to see about 370 to the wheels.
You may need injectors at that point. 36# injectors will cover that.
So, cost wise:
TSP h/c package is about $1800
Full exhaust is about $2000 with cats and X-pipe
Injectors are about $250
Tuning (GOOD dyno tuning) is about $500.
I don't know what they charge right now for installation of all the parts, but so far you're looking at $4600 (with misc parts like gaskets). I'd imagine as a package deal, install would put the total cost at around $7K. That's definitely cheaper than installing an LS3.
I'm sure what ever shop you get to install everything will cut you a good deal on the dyno tuning.
You live in CA where exhaust is a problem (nothing carb certified that I've found). So that's going to be a limiting factor unless you find a smog shop that understands the "wink".
Heads/Cam alone will be around 60-80RWHP
Depending on the cam you get, you'll need a tune.
With tuning on - say - a TSP 233/239 cam with Stage 2.5 LS6 heads, you'll probably see 410 to the wheels. With full exhaust, maybe 430 to the wheels.
The LS3 is only going to see about 370 to the wheels.
You may need injectors at that point. 36# injectors will cover that.
So, cost wise:
TSP h/c package is about $1800
Full exhaust is about $2000 with cats and X-pipe
Injectors are about $250
Tuning (GOOD dyno tuning) is about $500.
I don't know what they charge right now for installation of all the parts, but so far you're looking at $4600 (with misc parts like gaskets). I'd imagine as a package deal, install would put the total cost at around $7K. That's definitely cheaper than installing an LS3.
I'm sure what ever shop you get to install everything will cut you a good deal on the dyno tuning.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,266
Likes: 8
From: Indian Rocks Beach FL
St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10
I'd go the LS3 way over the heads cam option.
First, you end up with a new engine. Lingenfelter and a few other companies make all the harnesses and adapters you need to make it a plug and play swap, so difficulty isn't a factor.
The hot cam version gives you 480 at the crank, 408 at the rear wheels. Me, I'd skip the hot cam and go to a bigger cam. Clean up the heads and intake and you'll be well over 450 at the rear wheels with plenty of room for growth.
If you go the heads/cam option when you're done, you're done. To get any more out of it you'd need to spend some serious cash. And you've still got an engine with miles on it.
The LS3 will dollar for dollar always out perform the LS1 thanks to more cubes, bigger heads and better intake. A little more up front for a lot more down the road.
First, you end up with a new engine. Lingenfelter and a few other companies make all the harnesses and adapters you need to make it a plug and play swap, so difficulty isn't a factor.
The hot cam version gives you 480 at the crank, 408 at the rear wheels. Me, I'd skip the hot cam and go to a bigger cam. Clean up the heads and intake and you'll be well over 450 at the rear wheels with plenty of room for growth.
If you go the heads/cam option when you're done, you're done. To get any more out of it you'd need to spend some serious cash. And you've still got an engine with miles on it.
The LS3 will dollar for dollar always out perform the LS1 thanks to more cubes, bigger heads and better intake. A little more up front for a lot more down the road.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 9,526
Likes: 12
From: Los Angeles California
I'd go the LS3 way over the heads cam option.
First, you end up with a new engine. Lingenfelter and a few other companies make all the harnesses and adapters you need to make it a plug and play swap, so difficulty isn't a factor.
The hot cam version gives you 480 at the crank, 408 at the rear wheels. Me, I'd skip the hot cam and go to a bigger cam. Clean up the heads and intake and you'll be well over 450 at the rear wheels with plenty of room for growth.
If you go the heads/cam option when you're done, you're done. To get any more out of it you'd need to spend some serious cash. And you've still got an engine with miles on it.
The LS3 will dollar for dollar always out perform the LS1 thanks to more cubes, bigger heads and better intake. A little more up front for a lot more down the road.
First, you end up with a new engine. Lingenfelter and a few other companies make all the harnesses and adapters you need to make it a plug and play swap, so difficulty isn't a factor.
The hot cam version gives you 480 at the crank, 408 at the rear wheels. Me, I'd skip the hot cam and go to a bigger cam. Clean up the heads and intake and you'll be well over 450 at the rear wheels with plenty of room for growth.
If you go the heads/cam option when you're done, you're done. To get any more out of it you'd need to spend some serious cash. And you've still got an engine with miles on it.
The LS3 will dollar for dollar always out perform the LS1 thanks to more cubes, bigger heads and better intake. A little more up front for a lot more down the road.
If money isn't an option and you don't mind spending $2-3K more than the LS1 with h/c, than I'd do the LS3 as well.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,266
Likes: 8
From: Indian Rocks Beach FL
St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10
Numbers came from the Vortech site.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,266
Likes: 8
From: Indian Rocks Beach FL
St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10
This is true, but at the same time, you're talking about a bit more money for the misc parts and the installation. Also, does the LS3 come with the LS3 exhaust or are you going to be reusing your current LS1 exhaust? That's going to limit the amount of power you make as well, so 408RW may not be the case. If it does come with the LS3 exhaust manifolds, you're going to need some exhaust work done to make your current piping work.
If money isn't an option and you don't mind spending $2-3K more than the LS1 with h/c, than I'd do the LS3 as well.
If money isn't an option and you don't mind spending $2-3K more than the LS1 with h/c, than I'd do the LS3 as well.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,107
Likes: 4
From: Northern VA
Sky is the limit. How far do you want to go? Are you bone stock now? How much hp do you want or "think" you want? Then we can suggest some ideas. Do you want the car to lope? Do you want it quite, like stock? MPG an issue? Honestly easiest way to make the most hp and keep stock drivability with no inspection issues would be a blower and probably cheapest or just as expensive as an new ls3 installed but make A LOT more hp.
Me personally i'm always on a budget...best bang for buck would be a H/C package and staying with what you got now. How many miles on your car? The bottom end in these cars can take a H/C package easy as well as 6lbs of boost...so ya in the end it comes back to the questions i asked in the beginning of my post.
Me personally i'm always on a budget...best bang for buck would be a H/C package and staying with what you got now. How many miles on your car? The bottom end in these cars can take a H/C package easy as well as 6lbs of boost...so ya in the end it comes back to the questions i asked in the beginning of my post.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 9,526
Likes: 12
From: Los Angeles California
Not really. Depends on if he wants to stay smog legal. Here in California, (which is where he is as well) there aren't any smog legal options for LT headers. I'm still looking around for options for my Z06. I may just get the LG Pros and give the shop guy a good tip. But we don't know if the OP wants to do that.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,266
Likes: 8
From: Indian Rocks Beach FL
St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10
Not really. Depends on if he wants to stay smog legal. Here in California, (which is where he is as well) there aren't any smog legal options for LT headers. I'm still looking around for options for my Z06. I may just get the LG Pros and give the shop guy a good tip. But we don't know if the OP wants to do that.