a sexy butt second to none!
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,150
Likes: 6
From: NS
Chrome and late model Corvettes is like oil and water in my book.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,193
Likes: 156
From: Navarre FL
There is a image/status component to exotics that is inconsistent with what the Corvette is. The Corvette is, and will always be, a sports car that is heavy on "bang for the buck" and is something that the average Joe can attain if he/she works for it.
The ZR1 certainly is a world-class performer but the average Joe cannot tell the difference between it and a $45k C6, and therefore the image/status component is lost.
Saying "well my C5 performs as well as a Ferrari" is the same thing as an Evo owner saying "my Evo performs as well as your C5." And C5 Gen rips on Evos and STis all the time, saying "they'll never be a Vette." Well apply your own logic to Ferraris and Lambos, which, yes, are in a different class entirely. Don't be so naive to think that you can compare lap times and proclaim the car to be on the same level.
The ZR1 certainly is a world-class performer but the average Joe cannot tell the difference between it and a $45k C6, and therefore the image/status component is lost.
Saying "well my C5 performs as well as a Ferrari" is the same thing as an Evo owner saying "my Evo performs as well as your C5." And C5 Gen rips on Evos and STis all the time, saying "they'll never be a Vette." Well apply your own logic to Ferraris and Lambos, which, yes, are in a different class entirely. Don't be so naive to think that you can compare lap times and proclaim the car to be on the same level.
He answered it for me:
I've already said TWICE that what class a car is in, is not determined by performance alone. A Ferrari F430 is not in the same class as Aston Martin Vantage.
I thought my example of CST-V vs Corvette should have explained it already? They perform similiarly but they are not in the same class.
I've already said TWICE that what class a car is in, is not determined by performance alone. A Ferrari F430 is not in the same class as Aston Martin Vantage.
I thought my example of CST-V vs Corvette should have explained it already? They perform similiarly but they are not in the same class.
I guess I am still missing it. From what I read here your telling me its all in your head!
Using the example of a CTS-V or an EVO etc, well those cars are obviously different. 4 doors, one obviously a luxury GT, the other has the pedigree of a rally racer (by the way, i actually like EVO's WRX, etc. Great little cars for what they are...a whole lotta punch out of a tiny motor). The difference is obvious. A vette is designed as a sports car. A high powered, superior handling, 2 seater sports car. As is a Lambo, or Ferrari F430, etc etc. Both designed for the same purpose....Go fast and pin you to the door in a corner. Many Americans consider the imports to be "exotics" because they have a different "recipe" to get to the same end point. Complex motors, and flashy edgy body styles (most of which I cant stand BTW). But the purpose and as you stated performance are the similar in the least. That puts them in the same class in my book. I guess I just dont go along with the idea that being outrageously expensive puts it in a different class...even though the purpose and outcome are the same.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,833
Likes: 0
From: Location Location
I guess I am still missing it. From what I read here your telling me its all in your head! Using the example of a CTS-V or an EVO etc, well those cars are obviously different. 4 doors, one obviously a luxury GT, the other has the pedigree of a rally racer (by the way, i actually like EVO's WRX, etc. Great little cars for what they are...a whole lotta punch out of a tiny motor). The difference is obvious. A vette is designed as a sports car. A high powered, superior handling, 2 seater sports car. As is a Lambo, or Ferrari F430, etc etc. Both designed for the same purpose....Go fast and pin you to the door in a corner. Many Americans consider the imports to be "exotics" because they have a different "recipe" to get to the same end point. Complex motors, and flashy edgy body styles (most of which I cant stand BTW). But the purpose and as you stated performance are the similar in the least. That puts them in the same class in my book. I guess I just dont go along with the idea that being outrageously expensive puts it in a different class...even though the purpose and outcome are the same.
Using the example of a CTS-V or an EVO etc, well those cars are obviously different. 4 doors, one obviously a luxury GT, the other has the pedigree of a rally racer (by the way, i actually like EVO's WRX, etc. Great little cars for what they are...a whole lotta punch out of a tiny motor). The difference is obvious. A vette is designed as a sports car. A high powered, superior handling, 2 seater sports car. As is a Lambo, or Ferrari F430, etc etc. Both designed for the same purpose....Go fast and pin you to the door in a corner. Many Americans consider the imports to be "exotics" because they have a different "recipe" to get to the same end point. Complex motors, and flashy edgy body styles (most of which I cant stand BTW). But the purpose and as you stated performance are the similar in the least. That puts them in the same class in my book. I guess I just dont go along with the idea that being outrageously expensive puts it in a different class...even though the purpose and outcome are the same.
Drifting
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,616
Likes: 1
From: Minnesota
Race Director
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 11,992
Likes: 1,331
From: Middletown, DE
I guess I am still missing it. From what I read here your telling me its all in your head! Using the example of a CTS-V or an EVO etc, well those cars are obviously different. 4 doors, one obviously a luxury GT, the other has the pedigree of a rally racer (by the way, i actually like EVO's WRX, etc. Great little cars for what they are...a whole lotta punch out of a tiny motor). The difference is obvious. A vette is designed as a sports car. A high powered, superior handling, 2 seater sports car. As is a Lambo, or Ferrari F430, etc etc. Both designed for the same purpose....Go fast and pin you to the door in a corner. Many Americans consider the imports to be "exotics" because they have a different "recipe" to get to the same end point. Complex motors, and flashy edgy body styles (most of which I cant stand BTW). But the purpose and as you stated performance are the similar in the least. That puts them in the same class in my book. I guess I just dont go along with the idea that being outrageously expensive puts it in a different class...even though the purpose and outcome are the same.
Using the example of a CTS-V or an EVO etc, well those cars are obviously different. 4 doors, one obviously a luxury GT, the other has the pedigree of a rally racer (by the way, i actually like EVO's WRX, etc. Great little cars for what they are...a whole lotta punch out of a tiny motor). The difference is obvious. A vette is designed as a sports car. A high powered, superior handling, 2 seater sports car. As is a Lambo, or Ferrari F430, etc etc. Both designed for the same purpose....Go fast and pin you to the door in a corner. Many Americans consider the imports to be "exotics" because they have a different "recipe" to get to the same end point. Complex motors, and flashy edgy body styles (most of which I cant stand BTW). But the purpose and as you stated performance are the similar in the least. That puts them in the same class in my book. I guess I just dont go along with the idea that being outrageously expensive puts it in a different class...even though the purpose and outcome are the same.Gotta love it
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,410
Likes: 2
From: Chicago IL
I guess I am still missing it. From what I read here your telling me its all in your head! Using the example of a CTS-V or an EVO etc, well those cars are obviously different. 4 doors, one obviously a luxury GT, the other has the pedigree of a rally racer (by the way, i actually like EVO's WRX, etc. Great little cars for what they are...a whole lotta punch out of a tiny motor). The difference is obvious. A vette is designed as a sports car. A high powered, superior handling, 2 seater sports car. As is a Lambo, or Ferrari F430, etc etc. Both designed for the same purpose....Go fast and pin you to the door in a corner. Many Americans consider the imports to be "exotics" because they have a different "recipe" to get to the same end point. Complex motors, and flashy edgy body styles (most of which I cant stand BTW). But the purpose and as you stated performance are the similar in the least. That puts them in the same class in my book. I guess I just dont go along with the idea that being outrageously expensive puts it in a different class...even though the purpose and outcome are the same.
Using the example of a CTS-V or an EVO etc, well those cars are obviously different. 4 doors, one obviously a luxury GT, the other has the pedigree of a rally racer (by the way, i actually like EVO's WRX, etc. Great little cars for what they are...a whole lotta punch out of a tiny motor). The difference is obvious. A vette is designed as a sports car. A high powered, superior handling, 2 seater sports car. As is a Lambo, or Ferrari F430, etc etc. Both designed for the same purpose....Go fast and pin you to the door in a corner. Many Americans consider the imports to be "exotics" because they have a different "recipe" to get to the same end point. Complex motors, and flashy edgy body styles (most of which I cant stand BTW). But the purpose and as you stated performance are the similar in the least. That puts them in the same class in my book. I guess I just dont go along with the idea that being outrageously expensive puts it in a different class...even though the purpose and outcome are the same.Would you consider a Nissan GT-R to be in the same class as a Posrche 911? I was using EVO, CST-V as obvious examples so you would understand, just because their performance is similiar, does not mean they are same class. You obviously understood that, why not apply the same logic to this?
The purpose is not the same. GM didn't design it to compete with Ferrari's or Lambo's. In fact, even Lambo is a bit different in the way they design their cars. When was the last time a vette is considered an "exotic"?
Price is a big factor in class of vehicle. A lexus is an upscale Toyota, but it's not in the same class. Going fast can be done in different ways. Mustangs can go fast too. So does a Lotus Elise, so does another dozen different type of cars.
If you have people that praise your car and think it's an exotic, they clearly don't know anything about cars... For those who do, there's no way the "wow" factor will be the same.
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Drifting
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,410
Likes: 2
From: Chicago IL
Really well argued! Vettes and some Ferraris are definitely the same class -- 2 seat high-performance sports cars. Difference is in the cachet from more exotic approach taken by Ferrari -- I could not even remotely pay the upkeep on one let alone buy one. But, on road and track I can keep up with one, and, except for real car nuts, most folks seem to think the Vette is just as pretty and darned near as pricy!!
Gotta love it
Gotta love it
But this is what it SHOULD be:
Vettes: People see you in one and possibly THINK you are rich.
Ferrari: People see you in one and KNOW you are MEGA rich.
Race Director
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 11,992
Likes: 1,331
From: Middletown, DE
Normal folks, seriously. Unless they are actually in the market, they routinely overestimate Vette prices and underestimate Ferrari prices. And looks are in the eye of the beholder, but I get so many unsolicited compliments on my high-mileage DD that something must be going on -- and it ain't me 
Well said 
Race Director
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 11,992
Likes: 1,331
From: Middletown, DE
Well one is ugly and ridiculously high-tech, and the other is a classic bringing 70 year-old technology to incredible refinement. But, they are both GT-sports 2+2's in the near-6 figure price range which perform brilliantly so of course they are in the same class.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,193
Likes: 156
From: Navarre FL
You are STILL arguing about the PERFORMANCE aspect of the car...
Would you consider a Nissan GT-R to be in the same class as a Posrche 911? I was using EVO, CST-V as obvious examples so you would understand, just because their performance is similiar, does not mean they are same class. You obviously understood that, why not apply the same logic to this?
The purpose is not the same. GM didn't design it to compete with Ferrari's or Lambo's. In fact, even Lambo is a bit different in the way they design their cars. When was the last time a vette is considered an "exotic"?
Price is a big factor in class of vehicle. A lexus is an upscale Toyota, but it's not in the same class. Going fast can be done in different ways. Mustangs can go fast too. So does a Lotus Elise, so does another dozen different type of cars.
If you have people that praise your car and think it's an exotic, they clearly don't know anything about cars... For those who do, there's no way the "wow" factor will be the same.
Would you consider a Nissan GT-R to be in the same class as a Posrche 911? I was using EVO, CST-V as obvious examples so you would understand, just because their performance is similiar, does not mean they are same class. You obviously understood that, why not apply the same logic to this?
The purpose is not the same. GM didn't design it to compete with Ferrari's or Lambo's. In fact, even Lambo is a bit different in the way they design their cars. When was the last time a vette is considered an "exotic"?
Price is a big factor in class of vehicle. A lexus is an upscale Toyota, but it's not in the same class. Going fast can be done in different ways. Mustangs can go fast too. So does a Lotus Elise, so does another dozen different type of cars.
If you have people that praise your car and think it's an exotic, they clearly don't know anything about cars... For those who do, there's no way the "wow" factor will be the same.
Id say most people probably agree with you, but I would argue that they are wrong. If two cars are built for the same purpose (F430 and a Vette, 2 seat sports car, or a 911 and GTR, both 2+2 GT sports cars), with similar performance capability then I would argue they are in the same class...regardless of price or this so called "wow" factor. Sorry, an F430 doesnt "wow" me nearly as much as a ZR1. Thats something that is subjective to each individual, so cannot really (IMHO) be used to classify something. Things that are constant and not subject to a matter of opinion are purpose and performance. Two vehicles that are equal in those respects are in the same class.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,191
Likes: 43
From: Scottsdale Az
uh well...yeah. Both 2+2 high performance vehicles. Wheres the difference? Again, you have yet to tell me how the Vette is in a different class than say an F430 Id say most people probably agree with you, but I would argue that they are wrong. If two cars are built for the same purpose (F430 and a Vette, 2 seat sports car, or a 911 and GTR, both 2+2 GT sports cars), with similar performance capability then I would argue they are in the same class...regardless of price or this so called "wow" factor. Sorry, an F430 doesnt "wow" me nearly as much as a ZR1. Thats something that is subjective to each individual, so cannot really (IMHO) be used to classify something. Things that are constant and not subject to a matter of opinion are purpose and performance. Two vehicles that are equal in those respects are in the same class.
Id say most people probably agree with you, but I would argue that they are wrong. If two cars are built for the same purpose (F430 and a Vette, 2 seat sports car, or a 911 and GTR, both 2+2 GT sports cars), with similar performance capability then I would argue they are in the same class...regardless of price or this so called "wow" factor. Sorry, an F430 doesnt "wow" me nearly as much as a ZR1. Thats something that is subjective to each individual, so cannot really (IMHO) be used to classify something. Things that are constant and not subject to a matter of opinion are purpose and performance. Two vehicles that are equal in those respects are in the same class.The number one thing dragging vettes down is the low rent interior.
