Changing The Oil
Race Director
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 15,323
Likes: 2,077
From: Guelph, Ontario
You can't compare a Nascar engine (which will only be used for 500 miles and then rebuilt again) to a street engine which will be used much longer. Two totally different animals, two totally different driving conditions.
Former Vendor
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,876
Likes: 8
From: Las Vegas NV
St. Jude Donor '06 & '12
Ring materials vary widly. Factory rings are designed to seat within the first 40-50 miles, and also dont require extensive work on the cylinder walls.
NASCAR is a whole different animal. If you are only building a motor to last one race, its totally different. When I raced professionally, after the first race, we would watch our times drop dramatically. The motor had about 5 races in it before it COMPLETELY went south.
Point being, some rings are meant to seat extremely fast, but then give up the ghost just as quick. Others are a much harder material, which causes them to take an extremely long time to break in, yet they can last many many thousands of miles. OE's are designed to break in quickly, as well as last for over 100K miles. But they do this based on 100's of millions of dollars worth of R&D.
NASCAR is a whole different animal. If you are only building a motor to last one race, its totally different. When I raced professionally, after the first race, we would watch our times drop dramatically. The motor had about 5 races in it before it COMPLETELY went south.
Point being, some rings are meant to seat extremely fast, but then give up the ghost just as quick. Others are a much harder material, which causes them to take an extremely long time to break in, yet they can last many many thousands of miles. OE's are designed to break in quickly, as well as last for over 100K miles. But they do this based on 100's of millions of dollars worth of R&D.
Safety Car
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 4,237
Likes: 11
From: Lacombe Louisiana
Seems that NASCAR engines that only run 600 miles or so would need to seat almost instantly ,yet be durable enough to withstand constant 9500 rpm's.Yet synthetic oils dont bother them.Perhaps their machining processes are much better.
Former Vendor
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,876
Likes: 8
From: Las Vegas NV
St. Jude Donor '06 & '12
I would say their slightly better, given the fact that they can stay within a couple hp per motor throughout the the season.
Also, you are trying to compare a multi milliondollar engine program to a street motor costing a few grand. The engine builder Kroyer racing engines is right next door to us. They build Craftsman truck series motors, as well as a few cup motors. Their truck series motors START at 95 grand. They are 2 TOTALLY different beasts. Thats like trying to compare an apple to a rock.
Also, you are trying to compare a multi milliondollar engine program to a street motor costing a few grand. The engine builder Kroyer racing engines is right next door to us. They build Craftsman truck series motors, as well as a few cup motors. Their truck series motors START at 95 grand. They are 2 TOTALLY different beasts. Thats like trying to compare an apple to a rock.
Safety Car
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 4,237
Likes: 11
From: Lacombe Louisiana
While at the strip last night we had a bench racing session with 3 of the largest engine builers in the south on this subject.They all said they stopped using dino oils for break in 10 years ago and never had break in problems.Some their 10 year old engines are still running in bracket cars without even being freshened.Guess it is all in what you believe.
Former Vendor
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,876
Likes: 8
From: Las Vegas NV
St. Jude Donor '06 & '12
Hmmmm, thats funny, cause the largest LS engine builder in the US (Texas Speed) requires 100% of their motors use it. They even include 12 quarts with the purchase.
Its a well known fact amongst the engine builder community, that the current oils have been heavily changed over the last few years, by the EPA, for catalytic converter & O2 efficiency. They have added a huge amount of detergent, and removed all but a small portion of the ZDDP. The detergent is horrible on new bearings, whereas the High ZDDP oils help significantly with break in.
But you are right, it is all in what you believe.
Its a well known fact amongst the engine builder community, that the current oils have been heavily changed over the last few years, by the EPA, for catalytic converter & O2 efficiency. They have added a huge amount of detergent, and removed all but a small portion of the ZDDP. The detergent is horrible on new bearings, whereas the High ZDDP oils help significantly with break in.
But you are right, it is all in what you believe.
While at the strip last night we had a bench racing session with 3 of the largest engine builers in the south on this subject.They all said they stopped using dino oils for break in 10 years ago and never had break in problems.Some their 10 year old engines are still running in bracket cars without even being freshened.Guess it is all in what you believe.
