Does anyone have any 'rules of thumb' for replacing rotors and/or pads?

I Llke to go to HPD's and do not want to take any unnecessary risks so I try to carefully access the brakes after each weekend.
I have Eradispeed rotors and Hawk HP pads with stock calipers. Work fine with some excess pedal travel when hot.

Do braided brake lines help much?

All thoughts appreciated.

 

yes!!

 

Harry,

Yes, braided lines do help with pedal firmness when you are doing HPDEs. I would definitely upgrade to the Goodridge stainless braided lines, available from various vendors on here. Sounds like your rotor and pad combination is a good one for what you are doing with them. Just watch the pad wear at HPDEs and replace if needed (fronts wear much faster than rears, as you know). You will have to bleed the brakes after changing the lines, but bleeding them before each event helps keep the pedal firm also. I use ATE Super Blue and it holds up well at HPDEs. If you don't want the Blue, you can use their amber 200.

Have fun and be safe!!

 

Goodridge makes the highest quality brake lines. Then put in some good brake fluid and you'll be good to go.

Goodridge Stainless Steel Braided Brake Lines $115.95
Wilwood Hi-Temp Racing Brake Fluid $9.99
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-z...d-special.html

Seth

 

Different opions on steel lines. Use the search. Most people will tell you that you can;t feel a difference. The ones i have used in the past, you couldn';t tell the difference.

Also there is a theory, that the conductance of the steel lines will cause the failure of the ABS module.

Also there is wear issues, from dirt and debris getting embedded in the steel braid and rubbing a hole in the lines. Search the posts from DRM about this.

 

Install speed bleeders on the calipers. Makes brake bleeding so simple, even a caveman can do it. I have dedicated track pads and rotors, as most do. Watch the cheaper rotors for early warping. after your session(s) at the track, wait about 5 minutes after getting out of the car, and roll the car forward, or backward, about 10". This will change the position of the caliper in relation the the rotor. This is important because the pads/caliper are still radiating/projecting heat onto the rotor and can cause the rotor to crack. One other reminder, do not use your emergency brake when parking.

 

I would also add to the comment about using the ATE Super blue/amber..

wouldn't hurt to buy both and alternate between them, this way you're sure you got all the bad stuff out...

 

I think the following statement is accurate.

If you are running street pads (Hawk HPS) for HPDE's then you are missing out on a lot of the fun. You are also to some extent endangering yourself and those in front of you.

 

I respectfully disagree. I know many people (myself included) who moved through the novice and intermediate groups with stock Z06 pads & rotors without ever endandering anyone.

If you drive within your ability and that of the car no one should ever be in danger (relatively speaking given the topic).

Most regulars on the autox/roadracing section of the forum recommend moving away from the Eradispeed or any other type of drilled rotor for routine track use. They're expensive and they're prone to crack if driven aggressively. For occaisional (2-3 events per year) track use they're OK as are Hawk HPS pads. Brembo, Ate and others have inexpensive solid rotors available from TireRack for as little as $48 a wheel, and NAPA sells an acceptable replacement for even less. (yeah, I know they don't look as cool). Rotors are consumable parts which I usually replace based on cracking rather than normal wear, but 10-12 track days on average. No real need for most of us to spend big money on rotors to improve performance. Pads on the other hand...

If your car is primarily street driven the the HPS pads are fine, however as you do more track days, build your skills and speed you will want to upgrade your brake pads and lines at some point. I moved from Z06 pads to Hawk HP+ (stop great, dust horrible, short life span), to Hawk DTC70 pads as I moved from novice - intermidiate - advanced. I also changed to Ate Super Blue fluid early, now use AP 600. SS lines become more important as you begin to heat things up, but the stock ones are fine for occaisional track use.

Good luck!

 

Why does the higher heat of say a wil H or carbo Xp10 compound matter to the rubber lines? Just pedal feel? Because of the mixed review I have never changed the lines. Can you expend on your comment about the SS lines above?

Thanks

 

I agree on the rotors. There are better rotors but they are not made better by drilling - they are made better by using better materials, increasing either the heat mass, the heat rejection rate and/or it;s ability to withstand the abuse of heat cycling.

I'll still disagree on running street pads on track. I may be a bit aggressive in saying that it's dangerous. But 500HP, 3000lbs and 130+ MPH w/ an inexperienced driver?..... - I want to stop.

I guess my real question is -

$50k car
$500 or so per day for HPDE w/ expenses

Why would you limit your fun running street pads. Learning to brake and corner are the parts of driving that you get better at - mashing the go pedal is easy.

I got about 4-5 laps out of street pads at Summit Shenandoah - HP+ on a 2006 WRX w/ summer tires - and then they faded - and it certainly could have been an issue as the car of course just would not stop.

Just my 2 cents. I sponsored the Corvette Museum event at VIR last summer. Tons of guys were running street type pads etc.

My experience is that brakes that stop the car make driving fast a whole lot more fun.

 

Since I'm shooting my mouth off a bit.

The harder you use the brakes - i.e. the higher the line pressure and temperature and pressure cycles etc - the SS line advantage become more evident.

I am however on the fence w/ SS lines at times. OEM parts are always made to higher quality standards than anything aftermarket. And SS lines do fail at times.

-ken

good thread

 

This is what I do and it works great, but remember to have the system refilled with the Type 200 amber when the season is over and the car isn't going to be rebled soon. The blue will tint the master cylinder reservoir if left in for a long time.

 

Careful! Trying to imply that someone needs to have an upgraded braking system to be safe or have fun sounds a little self-serving.

Hundreds of HPDE students show up every weekend in their street prepared DD, have a great time and very rarely is there ever an accident and in three years I personally have never seen one that occurred due to brake failure. (although I'm sure somewhere it's happened). I drove on stock Z06 pads & rotors for most of my first two HPDE season (20 plus events) before upgrading to HP+, and just moved to race compound pads for the first time this year.

Just my 2 cents, but if the inexperienced driver can't drive the car without fading the brakes then maybe he shouldn't go 130+ until he learns to drive the car smoothly. I ran HP+ pads at Sebring for two full days two summers ago in 95+ degree heat, turning sub- 2:27 laps without ever fading the brakes, and I've seen a guy with Cobalts fade his brakes within the first few laps at Pocono by overdriving the car into the corners or by braking too hard and too early coming off the straight. In both cases the pads had nothing to do with it.

 

I melted HPS in one day, then melted HP+ the next day. ie went down to the backing plate.

then again, I brake very very late and hard.

 

Pedal feel is one reason the other is improved response of the brakes with less effort/pedal travel. I spend most of my time on the autox/roadracing page and I don't think I'd ever heard a "mixed review" until today. Most guys I know who track their cars regularly have SS lines, and it's one of the most frequently recommended brake upgrades for track use.

 

IF I stick to OEM lines, how often should I replace? Haven't heard of anyone having issues with them but then a lot change to the stainless lines.

I have had bad luck with aftermarket equipment, even GM perf. parts. So I'm always very reluctant to change.

 

It doesn't sound like heat is a reason why folks upgrade. I'm ok with the feel and I actually prefer a little more travel. I hate go-cart brakes--I really have to adjust to the sensitivity. Touchy, touchy.

 

Heat is exactly the reason. When the brake fluid gets hot the OE lines expand more under pressure which causes a soft pedal feel and delay in the reponse. The hotter the fluid the more this effect comes into play. SS lines don't expand with increased fluid temps. They don't make the pedal "touchy" they just help keep it from going soft.

 

I guess what I should have written was that concerns about heat degrading the lines/destroying them was not the reason for the upgrade as much as pedal feel degradation due to the heat.

The pedal seemed fine to me with high temp pads that could handle the heat.