No supercharger for me!
06-09-2010, 08:08 PM
#81
Racer
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FWIW I only tossed out 500hp as a comparison number. I know driveability comes into play with a stock LS1 that has been pushed to 500hp without a blower.
But as for this thread, I wouldn't build my car based on what the competition is. I don't plan to have it as a competition car, just something I can be happy with. So personally I would rather have a GM 427 with headers, cam etc etc as opposed to a blown 346. Although there are obvious reasons to have a blower. For pure enjoyment of the car for street and everything else I would use it for, I would prefer all motor. Build an upgraded tranny and diff and call it a day. However if I were looking for something that I would take to Texas Mile, I would slap a blower on that and then work from there.
-Alex
But as for this thread, I wouldn't build my car based on what the competition is. I don't plan to have it as a competition car, just something I can be happy with. So personally I would rather have a GM 427 with headers, cam etc etc as opposed to a blown 346. Although there are obvious reasons to have a blower. For pure enjoyment of the car for street and everything else I would use it for, I would prefer all motor. Build an upgraded tranny and diff and call it a day. However if I were looking for something that I would take to Texas Mile, I would slap a blower on that and then work from there.
-Alex
06-09-2010, 10:35 PM
#82
Drifting
Okay superchargers look damn good, sound great and give you a lot of HP but, those nice pieces of bling cost some serious bucks!!!
and almost all the CHARGED cars at the track where getting beat up on in the 1/4 mile, you hear them coming but you see them losing...
the cam and head cars whooped A$$ all day and the fastest cars at the track were C5Z's with auto trans,that seems like the way to go for me.....(JMO)
what do you guys think?
and almost all the CHARGED cars at the track where getting beat up on in the 1/4 mile, you hear them coming but you see them losing...
the cam and head cars whooped A$$ all day and the fastest cars at the track were C5Z's with auto trans,that seems like the way to go for me.....(JMO)
what do you guys think?
06-09-2010, 10:53 PM
#83
Race Director
franktank i respect your opinion, but i also have one of my own.
you keep on saying apples to apples, when the bottom line is HP is HP
no matter how you get it (NA, FI, JET, rocket) you get the point, whether it is 500 NA or 500 FI it is still 500 HP those are all the apples you need!!!
a green apple (NA) or a red apple (FI) still a apple.....
and yes the only real proof is at the track, when i started this thread i did not intend to **** any of you off....JUST STATING THE FACTS OF THE DAY, last Sunday at the track, and that was......
WHY ARE ALL THESE GUYS SPENDING ALL THIS CASH ON SUPERCHARGERS AND STILL GETTING SPANKED BY HEAD AND CAM CARS?
okay i understand that all SUPERCHARGED cars are not slow, but on that day at the track i was at, over half of those guys where having problems......for what ever reason that may have been, I really think most of it was driver error.
so if any of you got your boxers in a bunch.....take a couple of deep breaths and CHILL.....
side note - im going to the track tonight, in my slow (NA) stock motor bolt on vette.....just trying to crack the high 12's any tips?
you keep on saying apples to apples, when the bottom line is HP is HP
no matter how you get it (NA, FI, JET, rocket) you get the point, whether it is 500 NA or 500 FI it is still 500 HP those are all the apples you need!!!
a green apple (NA) or a red apple (FI) still a apple.....
and yes the only real proof is at the track, when i started this thread i did not intend to **** any of you off....JUST STATING THE FACTS OF THE DAY, last Sunday at the track, and that was......
WHY ARE ALL THESE GUYS SPENDING ALL THIS CASH ON SUPERCHARGERS AND STILL GETTING SPANKED BY HEAD AND CAM CARS?
okay i understand that all SUPERCHARGED cars are not slow, but on that day at the track i was at, over half of those guys where having problems......for what ever reason that may have been, I really think most of it was driver error.
so if any of you got your boxers in a bunch.....take a couple of deep breaths and CHILL.....
side note - im going to the track tonight, in my slow (NA) stock motor bolt on vette.....just trying to crack the high 12's any tips?
I've got way bigger things to worry about in life then some thread on this forum I've been around here long enough to know, most people here are way to sensitive.Second, in your first post, you are stating that heads/cam cars were spanking SC cars, so some of us asked, show us an example, we want to know more details, to which you had/have none, just your general statement. Thats why I said it was a blanket statement, back it up with some specfic proof.
From your post you are saying heads/cam cars are faster, and why waste money on a supercharger, hence the title of your thread "no supercharger for me"
I brought up apples to apples to present a logical arguement... HP is HP your right... in my experience, if you have a 346CI FI motor vs a heads/cam 346 CI NA motor, 9 out of 10 times the FI motor will make more power and be more streetable, that is just the reality..heck there is a whole FI section on this forum for gods sake
If you don't compare similar size motors, one with FI and one NA...then to say a heads/cam car is faster or making more power than a SC car makes no sense and has no logic.
We are not trying to pick on you here or pick apart your thread, but you post here on a public forum and make a general statement like you did, be ready for people to call you out on it. ..no one is pissed, we just don't agree.
Last edited by FrankTank; 06-09-2010 at 10:58 PM.
06-09-2010, 10:57 PM
#84
Former Vendor
Member Since: Nov 2005
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St. Jude Donor '08
As others have noted, but has been overlooked - your reasoning for going heads/cam vs FI seems to be price. You won't reliably outrun a FI car by spending an equal sum of money on a NA engine. So with money being your deciding factor, FI would be the correct choice of the two.
06-09-2010, 11:28 PM
#85
Safety Car
Maybe it was because as you add more power you don't actually get any faster at the track. Look at how many suspension/weight mods they did to the C5Z just to make it 385 (and later 405) HP.
06-09-2010, 11:32 PM
#86
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St. Jude Donor '08
I think a lot of people overlook this fact. Everyone assumes that GM gave the C5 ~345 HP because that's all they could get out of it (legally/smog/etc).
Maybe it was because as you add more power you don't actually get any faster at the track. Look at how many suspension/weight mods they did to the C5Z just to make it 385 (and later 405) HP.
Maybe it was because as you add more power you don't actually get any faster at the track. Look at how many suspension/weight mods they did to the C5Z just to make it 385 (and later 405) HP.
06-10-2010, 08:36 AM
#87
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So much BS here on both sides of the discussion.
Bottom line is properly set up and driven cars with the same HP will run pretty close to the same times regardless of how the power is being created.
The issue at hand is defining HP. The biggest mistake being everyone quotes PEAK HP when fact is HIGHEST AVERAGE HP across the run is what wins races.
Bottom line is properly set up and driven cars with the same HP will run pretty close to the same times regardless of how the power is being created.
The issue at hand is defining HP. The biggest mistake being everyone quotes PEAK HP when fact is HIGHEST AVERAGE HP across the run is what wins races.
Last edited by Vega$Vette; 06-10-2010 at 08:39 AM.
06-10-2010, 09:50 AM
#88
Safety Car
yeah i didnt think anyone would get there boxers in a bunch about it
sure ya didn't. 
the N/A C5Z with the auto ran a 9.7 in the final....i cant remember the MPH
Thats haulin azz for sure. At that point setup played a big factor. Car was converted to auto and the mods didn't stop there. My point is same HP cars don't net same results due to difference in setup, not just motor but suspension, tires, trans, stall ect. not to mention driver. A well sorted out car with equel power will win comparing to an all around car, not sayin this is the case just sayin it could have been.
dont get me wrong guys, i am not saying that i would never want a supercharger, it's just not near the top of my mod list!
i just dont see the need for one if you are not racing.
sure ya didn't. the N/A C5Z with the auto ran a 9.7 in the final....i cant remember the MPH
Thats haulin azz for sure. At that point setup played a big factor. Car was converted to auto and the mods didn't stop there. My point is same HP cars don't net same results due to difference in setup, not just motor but suspension, tires, trans, stall ect. not to mention driver. A well sorted out car with equel power will win comparing to an all around car, not sayin this is the case just sayin it could have been.
dont get me wrong guys, i am not saying that i would never want a supercharger, it's just not near the top of my mod list!
i just dont see the need for one if you are not racing.
Darion
06-10-2010, 10:28 AM
#89
Race Director
So much BS here on both sides of the discussion.
Bottom line is properly set up and driven cars with the same HP will run pretty close to the same times regardless of how the power is being created.
The issue at hand is defining HP. The biggest mistake being everyone quotes PEAK HP when fact is HIGHEST AVERAGE HP across the run is what wins races.
Bottom line is properly set up and driven cars with the same HP will run pretty close to the same times regardless of how the power is being created.
The issue at hand is defining HP. The biggest mistake being everyone quotes PEAK HP when fact is HIGHEST AVERAGE HP across the run is what wins races.
Good point, and let's not forget about Torque as well. It use to always bug me when people/vendors would post up in the Tech section, or here for that matter about I picked up 80RWHP, cam only...or with said cam from said vendor I dyno'd at 420RWHP...but then you look at the graph and the power does not kick in until 4800RPM That's great for the track, but sucks for the street.That is one valuable lesson I learned when I got my cam. I was lucky enough that the tuner/shop I chose pointed that out for me...so I did not fall into that trap of running a monster cam that does not kick in until way high in the RPM band and is a dog down low.
Quote-209time
"yeah i didnt think anyone would get there boxers in a bunch about it
sure ya didn't.
the N/A C5Z with the auto ran a 9.7 in the final....i cant remember the MPH
Thats haulin azz for sure. At that point setup played a big factor. Car was converted to auto and the mods didn't stop there. My point is same HP cars don't net same results due to difference in setup, not just motor but suspension, tires, trans, stall ect. not to mention driver. A well sorted out car with equel power will win comparing to an all around car, not sayin this is the case just sayin it could have been.
dont get me wrong guys, i am not saying that i would never want a supercharger, it's just not near the top of my mod list!
i just dont see the need for one if you are not racing"
End Quote
________________________________________ ________________________________________ _
Now that I can agree with, same HP cars will not always produce the same results at the track. That was not the original post you started out with .
Actually most people buy Superchargers because they want the power, but want to be able to drive on the street , and have stock street manners vs.. big power with a NA set-up , you are going to compromise some street manners, I dont care how good the tune is.
Last edited by FrankTank; 06-10-2010 at 10:38 AM.
06-10-2010, 11:31 AM
#90
Safety Car
As I said to each there own,
Darion
06-10-2010, 12:41 PM
#93
Le Mans Master
So much BS here on both sides of the discussion.
Bottom line is properly set up and driven cars with the same HP will run pretty close to the same times regardless of how the power is being created.
The issue at hand is defining HP. The biggest mistake being everyone quotes PEAK HP when fact is HIGHEST AVERAGE HP across the run is what wins races.
Bottom line is properly set up and driven cars with the same HP will run pretty close to the same times regardless of how the power is being created.
The issue at hand is defining HP. The biggest mistake being everyone quotes PEAK HP when fact is HIGHEST AVERAGE HP across the run is what wins races.
06-10-2010, 01:18 PM
#94
Safety Car
Your C5 1/4 Mile Quick List from the Perf. Results section
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/perf...uick-list.html
Just throwing this up. Thanks to Capthuff for keeping this going, was last updated 5-21-2010.
Darion
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/perf...uick-list.html
Just throwing this up. Thanks to Capthuff for keeping this going, was last updated 5-21-2010.
Darion
06-10-2010, 04:07 PM
#95
Race Director
Your C5 1/4 Mile Quick List from the Perf. Results section
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/perf...uick-list.html
Just throwing this up. Thanks to Capthuff for keeping this going, was last updated 5-21-2010.
Darion
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/perf...uick-list.html
Just throwing this up. Thanks to Capthuff for keeping this going, was last updated 5-21-2010.
Darion
And, there is no one that is better overall. To each his own. Internal Engine Modifications AKA NA
-> 346
1) 10.71x @ 127.32 - sixspdvet Details
2) 10.752 @ 126.91 - paint it black vette Details
3) 10.753 @ 124.48 - JON CONA Details/Slip/Video
4) 10.769 @ 121.66 - Hot_Wheels Details/Slip
5) 10.819 @ 130.08 - Fartpipe Details
6) 11.05x @ 120.50 - FACE Details
7) 11.18x @120.3x - PRE-Z06 Details
8) 11.201 @ 123.xx - Nickolbag Details/Video
9) 11.29x @ 121.0 - Nysbadmk8 Details
10) 11.309 @ 123.xx - DA GOAT! Details
-> 346+
1) 9.584@142.22 - DBN Details
2) 9.76x @ 139.26 - redvette1077 Details
3) 9.95x @ 137.xx - STEALTH 99 C5 Details/Slip
4) 10.274 @ 130.02 - REDGAR Details
5) 10.499 @ 129.38 - YOEL Details/Slip/Video
6) 10.81x @ 130.13 - simpleman68 Details
7) 10.827 @ 125.14 - ALLTHROTTLE&NOBOTTLE Details
8) 10.83x @ 130.6x - msghuff Details
9) 10.85x @ 123.xx - 404StrokedC5 Details
10) 10.9xx @ 128.xx - VGLNTE1 Details
Power Adders (supercharger, turbo, nitrous)
1) 8.54x @ 164.97 - bloweryboy Details/Video
2) 8.63x @ 154.xx - Doug @ ECS Details
3) 8.783 @ 153.74 - 4DRUSH Details/Slip/Video
4) 8.874 @ 155.29 - STEALTH 99 C5Details/Video/Slip
5) 9.247 @ 145.27 - uniquec5 Details/Slip
6) 9.253 @ 152.90 - stonabones69 Details/Slip
7) 9.331 @ 149.18 - STEALTH 99 C5 Details
8) 9.33x @ 147.21 - Asmokegars Details
9) 9.518 @ 141.17 - racerrob333 Details/Slip/Video
10) 9.60x @ 143.19 - FUSW Details/Video
Last edited by FrankTank; 06-10-2010 at 04:10 PM.
06-10-2010, 04:24 PM
#96
Safety Car
For those interseted in the details or video of the above cars open the link below and then open the hyperlink next to the time. Many of the cars have setup information plus video of the run. Also opening the link will show many more examples, so from mild to wild.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/perf...uick-list.html
Thanks again Capthuff and all who particapated,
Darion
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/perf...uick-list.html
Thanks again Capthuff and all who particapated,
Darion
06-10-2010, 04:27 PM
#97
Safety Car
You can make anything fast nowadays with enough money. Your setup has a lot to do with it to. Im NA 12:1cr with TFS heads and a healthy cam. Ive beaten a good number of FI cars that had 100+(dyno)rwhp on me. Maybe they werent setup right? Who knows. I still like old school hp all motor. I do respect guys that build fast NA cars a bit more than FI though, I just think NA takes a bit more brains to have as efficient and to get the combo right. Still, if it makes power, I'll drive whatever.
06-10-2010, 04:30 PM
#98
Safety Car
For those interseted in the details or video of the above cars open the link below and then open the hyperlink next to the time. Many of the cars have setup information plus video of the run. Also opening the link will show many more examples, so from mild to wild.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/perf...uick-list.html
Thanks again Capthuff and all who particapated,
Darion
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/perf...uick-list.html
Thanks again Capthuff and all who particapated,
Darion
06-10-2010, 04:44 PM
#99
Race Director
Member Since: Apr 2005
Location: Wesley Chapel, FL Las Vegas, NV
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which is why NA wins. the area under the curve cant be beat. Buddy of mine has a TT z06 that makes 530 on the same dyno I made 465 on. He gets .10 faster times than me. Same track, same day, same race, same clutch, almost same gearing, similar tires and 60's. Granted his trap is higher, but for ET, the FI fails..
That is just a plain dumb *** statement.
For example my Roots blower will get more power under the curve all day long then your NA car.
If his 60' is the same how are you claiming under the curve power advantage?
btw FI Fails??? at .10 better he is still beating you driving away or am I missing something here
06-10-2010, 04:46 PM
#100
Race Director
Note highlighted in RED.
That is just a plain dumb *** statement.
For example my Roots blower will get more power under the curve all day long then your NA car.
If his 60' is the same how are you claiming under the curve power advantage?
btw FI Fails??? at .10 better he is still beating you driving away or am I missing something here
That is just a plain dumb *** statement.
For example my Roots blower will get more power under the curve all day long then your NA car.
If his 60' is the same how are you claiming under the curve power advantage?
btw FI Fails??? at .10 better he is still beating you driving away or am I missing something here
I love general statements like that...no sense at all.