Looking to convert to e85
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,606
Likes: 30
From: frederick md
Looking to convert to e85
My car is currently in pieces since I am having to swap clutches. While everything is out im planning to do a pump and filter swap now. Im thinking about going to e85 and try it out. Im currently at 98% duty cycle on the stock injectors and pump. Its a 03 z making roughly 425-450 wheel na. So my question is what pump and injectors should I upgrade to.
I found the wwalbro f90000276 that's is compatable with e85. Also ill most likely be going back and forth between 93 and e85. So if a pump is good for e85 I assume its good for 93?
Thanks in advance
I found the wwalbro f90000276 that's is compatable with e85. Also ill most likely be going back and forth between 93 and e85. So if a pump is good for e85 I assume its good for 93?
Thanks in advance
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,606
Likes: 30
From: frederick md
I use to be the same way. But I've started thinking about alot of things as. If I haven't done it or tried it a can't hate it cause I don't know. So I figured I would venture into this territory and see if my car will pick up anything out of it.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,067
Likes: 46
From: Springfield IL.
Oldtimer
Your milage will suffer, but if tuned correctly it WILL pick up. I'm running my 650 hp 406 sbc on the stuff with 13.8/1 comp. Guys that talk it down, have never tried it. With the price of 93 and the lower mileage of the E85 it just maybe a wash, but there is more power in the E85. My 96 Firebird runs 6.40@104 in the 1/8 with 1.34 60s on E85. Won't go back to gas on it.
Race Director
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 11,121
Likes: 672
From: SE Pennsylvania
St. Jude Donor '03 thru '26
Oldtimer
E85 swap-over ?
Your milage will suffer, but if tuned correctly it WILL pick up. I'm running my 650 hp 406 sbc on the stuff with 13.8/1 comp. Guys that talk it down, have never tried it. With the price of 93 and the lower mileage of the E85 it just maybe a wash, but there is more power in the E85. My 96 Firebird runs 6.40@104 in the 1/8 with 1.34 60s on E85. Won't go back to gas on it.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,067
Likes: 46
From: Springfield IL.
Oldtimer
Don't you need to convert all of the plain steel in the fuel system so rust doesn't become an issue ? I have a friend from Ecuador and he told me just about all the cars down, there run on E85. And are Japanese and have stainless steel fuel systems. But of course as he points out, in Brazil they also have a zillion acres of Sugarcane to get the ethanol from. I was amazed that with the drought we've had here this year, and all the failed corn crops that Ethanol was going to raise the price of regular gasoline here in the states ?
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Drifting
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,412
Likes: 15
From: Richardson TX
Not sure why Ethanol has such a bad rap in the car enthusiast world. Any car built since the mid 80's is built to withstand ethanol in the fuel, and I dunno about you, but I'd rather buy ethanol made in the USA, then import more oil from the middle east. E10 has been standard for the better part of 10 years in most major cities, and there haven't been any mass ill effects from it. All the major car manufacturers recommend using it.
Most guys who swap to E85 are forced induction, since E85 basically has an octane rating of 105, and burns cooler, so you can run higher compression with it without risk of detonation. Its very popular in the Subaru and other stock-turbocharged vehicles, because you can up the boost on the turbo, and run the car on E85 and make 30% more horsepower safely and easily on the stock motor.
For a N/A car I'm not sure you'll get much out of it. Also keep in mind that E85 is cheaper per gallon, but has less energy in it, so you'll get 2/3 or 3/4 of your gas mileage, so getting 15MPG city 20MPG highway will be pretty typical.
Also, I was under the impression that once you switch a car over to E85 (and re-tuned the ECU), that you couldn't just toggle between E85 and 93 octane gas. I may be wrong on this one, but that's my understanding.
Most guys who swap to E85 are forced induction, since E85 basically has an octane rating of 105, and burns cooler, so you can run higher compression with it without risk of detonation. Its very popular in the Subaru and other stock-turbocharged vehicles, because you can up the boost on the turbo, and run the car on E85 and make 30% more horsepower safely and easily on the stock motor.
For a N/A car I'm not sure you'll get much out of it. Also keep in mind that E85 is cheaper per gallon, but has less energy in it, so you'll get 2/3 or 3/4 of your gas mileage, so getting 15MPG city 20MPG highway will be pretty typical.
Also, I was under the impression that once you switch a car over to E85 (and re-tuned the ECU), that you couldn't just toggle between E85 and 93 octane gas. I may be wrong on this one, but that's my understanding.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,067
Likes: 46
From: Springfield IL.
Oldtimer
I don't know how the flexfuel cars are setup, but i don't think changing back and forth would be an option but I'm not sure. Haven't looked at how the fuel tables are in the pcm. I know that I could have setup my old 87 GTA to run on it. I programed several different chips for that car. I suppose a guy, if he had the software and ability could change the tune back and forth for different fuels, but that would be a pain. I had different chips to do different things in my car. When my son started driving it, I had a mph cut off, it just shut down the injectors.
Last edited by 92GA; Oct 4, 2012 at 11:16 PM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,013
Likes: 170
From: Highlands Ranch CO
I'm e85 and forced induction, added a second fuel pump and larger injectors. You have to account for the fact that it takes 30% more e85 than gas to get going. However e85 is essentially 105 octane so you can run higher timing plus it has a cooling effect when it combusts therefore making more power.
As for n/a I'd honestly stay with 91/93 octane, I don't think the 15-20 hp is worth the money spent upgrading the fuel pump and injectors, plus the hassle of dealing with 30% loss of mpg and having to only fill up at e85 stations. If tuned for e85 you can't go back to 91 as you could really mess things up.
As for n/a I'd honestly stay with 91/93 octane, I don't think the 15-20 hp is worth the money spent upgrading the fuel pump and injectors, plus the hassle of dealing with 30% loss of mpg and having to only fill up at e85 stations. If tuned for e85 you can't go back to 91 as you could really mess things up.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,606
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From: frederick md
I wanna change the pump and filter while the car is apart. I might as well upgrade while im at it. I need bigger injectors since im at 98% d.c. already. So its just how big do I wanna upgrade. Why can't you go from e85 to 93 oct. Its all in the tune I thought
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 5,475
Likes: 718
From: Black Forest CO
It is all in the tune. You'd just need to reflash the tune for the other fuel if you wanted to switch.
I am thinking about doing this as well. I am running E85 in my 12 Avalanche just as an experiment. My mileage has dropped from 17.4ish to 14.2ish so the mileage drop is not huge.
I am thinking about doing this as well. I am running E85 in my 12 Avalanche just as an experiment. My mileage has dropped from 17.4ish to 14.2ish so the mileage drop is not huge.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,606
Likes: 30
From: frederick md
Exactly. And mpg means nothing to me. This is my second car. And im thinking of using the e85 as a substitute for racegas so obviously im not thinking of mpg. Especially when I have a 40mpg 92 civic as my daily 
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,013
Likes: 170
From: Highlands Ranch CO
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 5,475
Likes: 718
From: Black Forest CO
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,606
Likes: 30
From: frederick md
So here is what im coming up with. Apparently the stock pump is good to 500 wheel on e85. And the goal is 450 wheel MAXED out on e85 and im going to upgrade to 42 lbs green tops which maxed out flow as much as a 255 pump according to a quick bs calculation
So if I run out of fuel while on e85 ill just convert to 100-110 see if I still max the fuel system out and if THAT DON'T WORK ill upgrade the pump. Thoughts?
So if I run out of fuel while on e85 ill just convert to 100-110 see if I still max the fuel system out and if THAT DON'T WORK ill upgrade the pump. Thoughts?