Help - My C5 wont start
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From: Naestved
Help - My C5 wont start
Can somebody give some advice, what to try next ?
Started with my ignition switch had a loose connection, so I replaced it.
After that the car would not start anymore.
Tried to put the old ignition switch in again, still wont start.
Battery is ok, 12.62 volt.
No codes.
Replaced the starter today (that was my first guess).
VATS is deleted (resistor) - also tried to disable it in HP tuners.
It's clicks, but wont crank
Last edited by Baddabing; Jun 13, 2015 at 07:12 AM.
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From: Anthony TX
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
Not that I wont help you solve the issue here in the GENERAL Section but,,,, Why didn't you post in the C5 TECH (Tech/Performance) section??? You will get MUCH more tech response and sooner over there. 
There are TWO parts to your starter circuit. The HIGH CURRENT side and the LOW CURRENT side. Both separated by the THEFT DETERRENT RELAY
Here is the schematic:
Start with the fuses. Make sure that they are GOOD and also measure the VOLTAGE on each fuse to chassis ground using the two test points on top of each fuse to make sure that you have proper voltage on the fuse.
NOTE!! MAKE SURE THE CAR IS OUT OF GEAR/WHEELS CHOCKED!!
IF,, you JUMPER the Theft Deterrent Relay RED & PURPLE wire with the IGNITION KEY in the ON position, the starter should spin the engine and it should start and run.
That will tell you that the issue is on the LEFT side (low current side) of the relay or the relay it self.
Give that a look see and let me know what you find.
Bill
PS... I spend 98% of my forum time in the C5 tech section.
There are TWO parts to your starter circuit. The HIGH CURRENT side and the LOW CURRENT side. Both separated by the THEFT DETERRENT RELAY
Here is the schematic:
Start with the fuses. Make sure that they are GOOD and also measure the VOLTAGE on each fuse to chassis ground using the two test points on top of each fuse to make sure that you have proper voltage on the fuse.
NOTE!! MAKE SURE THE CAR IS OUT OF GEAR/WHEELS CHOCKED!!
IF,, you JUMPER the Theft Deterrent Relay RED & PURPLE wire with the IGNITION KEY in the ON position, the starter should spin the engine and it should start and run.
That will tell you that the issue is on the LEFT side (low current side) of the relay or the relay it self.
Give that a look see and let me know what you find.
Bill
PS... I spend 98% of my forum time in the C5 tech section.
Last edited by Bill Curlee; Jun 10, 2015 at 05:11 PM.
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From: Anthony TX
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
IF,,,,, you have a SECURITY issue,,, you can GROUND the BLACK/YELLOW wire on the Theft Deterrent Relay and that will allow the relay to operate the theft deterrent relay/starter regardless of what the BCM says for security.
That will tell you that you need to figure out why the BCM isn't allowing you to start the engine. WHAT Is your SECURITY LIGHT on the IPC doing when you are trying to start the engine???
OFF/ON or FLASHING ????????
Bill
That will tell you that you need to figure out why the BCM isn't allowing you to start the engine. WHAT Is your SECURITY LIGHT on the IPC doing when you are trying to start the engine???
OFF/ON or FLASHING ????????
Bill
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From: Naestved
IF,,,,, you have a SECURITY issue,,, you can GROUND the BLACK/YELLOW wire on the Theft Deterrent Relay and that will allow the relay to operate the theft deterrent relay/starter regardless of what the BCM says for security.
That will tell you that you need to figure out why the BCM isn't allowing you to start the engine. WHAT Is your SECURITY LIGHT on the IPC doing when you are trying to start the engine???
OFF/ON or FLASHING ????????
Bill
That will tell you that you need to figure out why the BCM isn't allowing you to start the engine. WHAT Is your SECURITY LIGHT on the IPC doing when you are trying to start the engine???
OFF/ON or FLASHING ????????
Bill
I will try to ground the black/yellow wire tomorrow, and see if this will get the car to crank.
But it's strange because the car would start before I changed the ignition switch.
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Manual or automatic? If automatic check to see of the shifter is loose or moves. The link from the shifter to the transmission may be broken (as I had happen) and it will not start as it doesn't think/know it is in park.
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From: Naestved
Automatic.
Shifter moves, when I press the brake pedal, and ignition is on.
How can I check this link is working?
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From: Naestved
Soooo.. a little update.
Tried to jump the TDR relay (red & Purple wire) - CAR Cranks ! - but no start (battery & starter OK).
But fund out the steering column can't lock, so maybe it's related to that.
And again the problem started after changing the ignition switch.
How to fix the Column lock ?
Tried to jump the TDR relay (red & Purple wire) - CAR Cranks ! - but no start (battery & starter OK).
But fund out the steering column can't lock, so maybe it's related to that.
And again the problem started after changing the ignition switch.
How to fix the Column lock ?
Last edited by Baddabing; Jun 13, 2015 at 07:09 AM.
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From: Anthony TX
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
You could have the delear recall where they reprogram the computer and REMOVE the column lock plate OR you could have a Colume Lock Bypass module installed by the previous owner.
Either way, it will prevent the column from locking.
When you turn the ignition ON/OFF,, Do you hear the columb lock BOLT motoring in position???
BC
Either way, it will prevent the column from locking.
When you turn the ignition ON/OFF,, Do you hear the columb lock BOLT motoring in position???
BC
Last edited by Bill Curlee; Jun 13, 2015 at 09:23 AM.
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From: Naestved
You said the car is an automatic and profile indicates it is a 2001. If that is the case then the column will NEVER physically lock. However the lock motor DOES get powered when you put the key into the ignition cylinder and begin to turn toward the start position. You should hear a soft bzzzzt coming from under the plastic Tupper Ware around the column. Similar noise when you remove the key from the ignition cylinder. Even if the lock motor was hung up that will NOT prevent the car from starting. You can pull the codes and see if you have any codes related to the column lock but again failure of the column lock system will NOT prevent the car from starting.
I'm going crazy. Going to a big Corvette meet next weekend, but can't find the error
Can it be the TDR relay ?
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From: Naestved
Yes it could be the TDR relay. Previous post says that when you jumpered it the car cranks. However, still NO START. Two different symptoms.
I suggest that you pull the codes and post them here. Here is how to do that if you have never done it before:
OR
http://www.c5forum.com/ayc/dtcdic.php
Post ALL the codes including the H or C or HC that follow each 5 character code. Also please list them under the sensor they are related to ie 10 - PCM or 28 - TCS or 40 - BCM etc. Makes looking the codes up easier in the list I have much easier.
I would NOT keep throwing parts at this until some more diagnosis is done. It looks to be getting expensive doing that and still not isolating the cause....
I'm off to a Cars and Coffee but wil be back and check this thread in a few hours.......
I suggest that you pull the codes and post them here. Here is how to do that if you have never done it before:
OR
http://www.c5forum.com/ayc/dtcdic.php
Post ALL the codes including the H or C or HC that follow each 5 character code. Also please list them under the sensor they are related to ie 10 - PCM or 28 - TCS or 40 - BCM etc. Makes looking the codes up easier in the list I have much easier.
I would NOT keep throwing parts at this until some more diagnosis is done. It looks to be getting expensive doing that and still not isolating the cause....
I'm off to a Cars and Coffee but wil be back and check this thread in a few hours.......
Ok - First time in diagnostics mode, for me.
But here is the codes I fund:
28 TCS
C1247 H - Brake Pressure Differential Switch Activated
40 BCM
B2587 H - Column Lock/Unlock Drive A
B2592 H - Column Lock/Unlock Drive B
B2723 H - PASS-Key Detection Circuit
A0-LDCM
B2252 H - Key Cylinder Switch Circuit
B2282 H - Battery #1 Circuit
B2284 H - Battery #2 Circuit
B2278 H - Switch Indicator/Illum Circuit
U1064 H - ?
A1-RDCM
B2283 H - Battery #1 Circuit
B2285 H - Battery #2 Circuit
U1064 H - communication error between the BCM and the PCM ?
Cleared all the codes, and tried to start the car, and checked for codes again.
No codes after that.
Another thing, i'm pretty sure, the column made a bzzzzt noise when I inserted the key, before I changed the ignition switch.
No bzzzzt noise anymore.
Last edited by Baddabing; Jun 13, 2015 at 01:25 PM.
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From: Naestved
No codes is good.....
I would not worry about the column lock at this point. Physically the column cannot lock on 2001 - 2004 automatics. WORST thing that will happen if the column lock system is not functioning on an automatic is a message gets displayed in the DIC. NO EFFECT on the car starting and no issues with the driveability once the car does start.
What happened when you tried to start the car after clearing codes???
Did it crank and not start???
Or did it NOT CRANK?
If NO Crank then I have to suspect the neutral safety switch or the TDR. If you look at the circuit diagram that Bill posted above you will see that the neutral safety switch on an automatic needs to close to power the TDR. If you have a digital multimeter you can measure the voltage at the TDR for the yellow wire to ground with the key in the on position and the car in park or neutral. If you have battery voltage then the problem is the TDR. If no voltage then the problem is the neutral safety switch is staying open and you need to retrace wires under the dash near/to the ignition switch...
I would not worry about the column lock at this point. Physically the column cannot lock on 2001 - 2004 automatics. WORST thing that will happen if the column lock system is not functioning on an automatic is a message gets displayed in the DIC. NO EFFECT on the car starting and no issues with the driveability once the car does start.
What happened when you tried to start the car after clearing codes???
Did it crank and not start???
Or did it NOT CRANK?
If NO Crank then I have to suspect the neutral safety switch or the TDR. If you look at the circuit diagram that Bill posted above you will see that the neutral safety switch on an automatic needs to close to power the TDR. If you have a digital multimeter you can measure the voltage at the TDR for the yellow wire to ground with the key in the on position and the car in park or neutral. If you have battery voltage then the problem is the TDR. If no voltage then the problem is the neutral safety switch is staying open and you need to retrace wires under the dash near/to the ignition switch...
Will the try the - voltage at the TDR - yellow wire to ground next.
(have ordered the TDR - was only $17).
Last edited by Baddabing; Jun 13, 2015 at 02:52 PM.
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From: Naestved