Improved Airflow?
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 45
Likes: 4
From: Cortland, NY
Improved Airflow?
Hello all. Was just watching a video on utube and a suggestion was made to increase airflow and was curious to see what everyone’s opinion was. The suggestion was to remove the plastic housing around both fog lights. Has anyone done this and seen tangible benefits from it? One concern that comes to mind is bugs and other road grime. Without that housing I’m concerned about where all of that will end up.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 21,325
Likes: 3,841
From: small town in S.E Pa. PA
St. Jude Donor '03-'04
You can NOT improve the air flow, since air is only available on the demand by the vacuum pulled by the intake stroke. . If the pull was more that available air, the filter would get sucked into the intake. or the air box would collapse.
However you can force more dense oxygen rich air by compressing it in a closed loop application like a super charger.. The volume of air will not change but the compression will cause that volume to become more dense. You can not compress ambient air, unless you are mother nature.
Unless you change the air demand by the motor, it will draw all the air ( by volume ) it needs. If the air boc gets sucked into to modified motor, then you need more air, but unless that happens it will suck air as needed, in most cases about 600 cubic ft a minute @ WOT..
You can however Draw cooler more dense air from outside the engine compartment.In most cases a drop of 20 to 30 digress * F would be typical. With a 30 degree drop , the amount of more oxygen rich air would be in the gain area of around 5 hp. total . The air moves so quickly through the throttle body ( 1 millisecond )= 1/1000 sec. ), it will neither super heat or cool the air as it passes, so a throttle body bypass is just snake oil., There is a very big difference in personal logic, and actual science. Nothing beats a real education. Personal logic is for amateurs when it comes to automotive technology.
Bill
FYI Corvette people will buy into almost anything,, manufacturer claims are not all that they claim, and are not 100% accurate in most cases.
However you can force more dense oxygen rich air by compressing it in a closed loop application like a super charger.. The volume of air will not change but the compression will cause that volume to become more dense. You can not compress ambient air, unless you are mother nature.
Unless you change the air demand by the motor, it will draw all the air ( by volume ) it needs. If the air boc gets sucked into to modified motor, then you need more air, but unless that happens it will suck air as needed, in most cases about 600 cubic ft a minute @ WOT..
You can however Draw cooler more dense air from outside the engine compartment.In most cases a drop of 20 to 30 digress * F would be typical. With a 30 degree drop , the amount of more oxygen rich air would be in the gain area of around 5 hp. total . The air moves so quickly through the throttle body ( 1 millisecond )= 1/1000 sec. ), it will neither super heat or cool the air as it passes, so a throttle body bypass is just snake oil., There is a very big difference in personal logic, and actual science. Nothing beats a real education. Personal logic is for amateurs when it comes to automotive technology.
Bill
FYI Corvette people will buy into almost anything,, manufacturer claims are not all that they claim, and are not 100% accurate in most cases.
Last edited by Vetteman Jack; Feb 4, 2019 at 12:09 AM.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 21,325
Likes: 3,841
From: small town in S.E Pa. PA
St. Jude Donor '03-'04
To the OP:
Heat extraction from the engine bay, and increased airflow to the engine are two different things. Each one has some options to effect performance.
Bill aka ET
Heat extraction from the engine bay, and increased airflow to the engine are two different things. Each one has some options to effect performance.
Bill aka ET
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 751
Likes: 583
2020 C5 of the Year Winner- Unmodified
Well, there's been lots of discussion on this in other threads recently. Lots of different opinions on what to use and how to do it. One option is the one you mentioned....remove the fog light surrounds, but you should use the screen in the inlets like the Z06 has to stop most debris. I have ordered the grill screens and will do this mod. I recently installed dual air filters that should benefit from the added air flow and cooler air. It would not work with a stock air filter system. I haven't received the screens yet, and I just broke a finger, so it may be a little while before I get to it. One added thing, when I do remove the fog light surrounds, it will be a good time to clean out the radiator since you have to remove the radiator shroud to get to the fog light surrounds. The low intake area for the radiator collects a lot of debris.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 21,325
Likes: 3,841
From: small town in S.E Pa. PA
St. Jude Donor '03-'04
The fog light surrounds are easily reach by removing the lower fascia bolts and reaching in to remove them ( fascia is very flexible in this area) . No radiator shroud removal required.
Bill aka ET
Bill aka ET
Last edited by Vetteman Jack; Feb 4, 2019 at 12:11 AM.
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,483
Likes: 343
From: Long Island New York
You need to go with a true CAI to actually get fresh air there.
By removing those fog light ducts you will be increasing the amount of debris in the engine compartment. Mesh screens will not stop the road dirt from entering the whole engine bay area.
By removing those fog light ducts you will be increasing the amount of debris in the engine compartment. Mesh screens will not stop the road dirt from entering the whole engine bay area.
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Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 751
Likes: 583
2020 C5 of the Year Winner- Unmodified
I'm not sure if the area around the fog lights on the Z06 is open??? It must be since they have the grill screen stock. If so, is there a problem with debris getting into the engine compartment on the Z06s. Haven't heard anybody mention that.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,280
Likes: 1,097
From: Pittsburgh PA
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 45
Likes: 4
From: Cortland, NY
good question! I was wondering that myself.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 751
Likes: 583
2020 C5 of the Year Winner- Unmodified
I do like the look of the grill openings on the C5, However I'm not fond of design features that have no function. I assume they do function on the Z06s. So, unless I see a consensus from Z06 owners that it causes dirt problems in the engine compartment, I'm going to make mine functional. I guess I'll just feel better about those grill openings and the grill screen will look cool to me. As a professional Artist/Designer for 50 years, the first thing you learn is beauty is in the eye of the beholder....so I know everybody won't like the grill screen look. However, I think your Black Wing will be an improvement over stock no matter where the air comes from.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 2,800
Likes: 356
From: Northville, MI
It is funny about all the theories about cold air, different air cleaners, dual cone, etc. In the days of C5 corvette racing (not C5R) beginning with the design and development of the FRC, some of the performance engineering staff were looking at increasing hp/airflow/engine temps, etc and were scientifically measuring the results. When I received my Z06, Oct, 2000, I notices Heinracy and Kellermeyer had the black wing on their Corvettes when running track events so I had Danny put one on my car. After it was on I asked him how much HP I gained--everyone was claiming around 7-9 HP at that time. Sadly he told me there was no HP gains but I had a better filter to the air, especially when running at the track. After attending some of his Alignment schools he discussed how to get better performance and efficiency from the engine. Since this was before the EFILive and HPTuners era tuning was in its infancy and everyone was claiming wild HP gains with the add-ons. Like Evil-Twin said, in the stock engine changing air cleaners, removing screens, etc will not make more HP. With the newer tuning software you are now able to change some of your engine parameters but it add very few HP but in the 2000-5000 band you can make significant performance increases. Just because your engine is louder does not mean it makes more HP.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 21,325
Likes: 3,841
From: small town in S.E Pa. PA
St. Jude Donor '03-'04
Its not like I know what I'm talking about here.... Just to be clear... for most people, their geographical location and altitude are considerations when tuning a C5. Since we sent out all of the C5's from the factory with a rich tune ( as a safety requirement ) this covers any geographical location in the country... Many people can gain anywhere from 5 Hp to 15 HP by just a retune in an area performance shop close to your home. Each car in each location will be different based on where it is driven in the country
You can tune things like tire pressure for your individual; car and its location. the 30 psi sticker on the door is required, but just generic. You can do better with localized tire pressure which includes consideration for type of roads, temperature, and barometric pressure. elevation. This is some science and not back yard engineering.
Just alittle " Real " input on performance considerations.
Bill aka ET
You can tune things like tire pressure for your individual; car and its location. the 30 psi sticker on the door is required, but just generic. You can do better with localized tire pressure which includes consideration for type of roads, temperature, and barometric pressure. elevation. This is some science and not back yard engineering.
Just alittle " Real " input on performance considerations.
Bill aka ET
Pro
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 675
Likes: 195
From: Green Oak Township, Michigan
Youre pretty much right on Bill. Science, 101. Air is not .."sucked".. in by the motor. On the intake stroke, the piston goes down and .."vacates".. space. Atmospheric pressure at 14.7 lbs. per square inch rushes in. to fill the space. Now if the path for the air is obstructed, it will take a few more milliseconds to fill the void, and not pack as much air in. How much more air were talking about, I dont know. I do know that ram air...or "pressureized air".. is paramount to the efficiency of a naturally asparaited motor. So anything that you can do to aleviate obstructions to the air flow, is a good thing. Its just a shame that we have to use an air filter. 
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 2,279
Likes: 226
From: Round Rock Texas
I have mine pulled for three years now and don't see any extra debris in engine anywhere. Also mine is a daily driver. Could be true if you live in a dusty area. Like Arizona?
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 2,279
Likes: 226
From: Round Rock Texas
You can NOT improve the air flow, since air is only available on the demand by the vacuum pulled by the intake stroke. . If the pull was more that available air, the filter would get sucked into the intake. or the air box would collapse.
However you can force more dense oxygen rich air by compressing it in a closed loop application like a super charger.. The volume of air will not change but the compression will cause that volume to become more dense. You can not compress ambient air, unless you are mother nature.
Unless you change the air demand by the motor, it will draw all the air ( by volume ) it needs. If the air boc gets sucked into to modified motor, then you need more air, but unless that happens it will suck air as needed, in most cases about 600 cubic ft a minute @ WOT..
You can however Draw cooler more dense air from outside the engine compartment.In most cases a drop of 20 to 30 digress * F would be typical. With a 30 degree drop , the amount of more oxygen rich air would be in the gain area of around 5 hp. total . The air moves so quickly through the throttle body ( 1 millisecond )= 1/1000 sec. ), it will neither super heat or cool the air as it passes, so a throttle body bypass is just snake oil., There is a very big difference in personal logic, and actual science. Nothing beats a real education. Personal logic is for amateurs when it comes to automotive technology.
Bill
FYI Corvette people will buy into almost anything,, manufacturer claims are not all that they claim, and are not 100% accurate in most cases.
However you can force more dense oxygen rich air by compressing it in a closed loop application like a super charger.. The volume of air will not change but the compression will cause that volume to become more dense. You can not compress ambient air, unless you are mother nature.
Unless you change the air demand by the motor, it will draw all the air ( by volume ) it needs. If the air boc gets sucked into to modified motor, then you need more air, but unless that happens it will suck air as needed, in most cases about 600 cubic ft a minute @ WOT..
You can however Draw cooler more dense air from outside the engine compartment.In most cases a drop of 20 to 30 digress * F would be typical. With a 30 degree drop , the amount of more oxygen rich air would be in the gain area of around 5 hp. total . The air moves so quickly through the throttle body ( 1 millisecond )= 1/1000 sec. ), it will neither super heat or cool the air as it passes, so a throttle body bypass is just snake oil., There is a very big difference in personal logic, and actual science. Nothing beats a real education. Personal logic is for amateurs when it comes to automotive technology.
Bill
FYI Corvette people will buy into almost anything,, manufacturer claims are not all that they claim, and are not 100% accurate in most cases.
Funny someone on here thought they could add all the HP increase that different mods gave and that would be total added HP. Like intake +20, descreen MAF +10 , intake tube +20.