Wonder if this one will reach 200+ posts also. :rolleyes:

:nopity :nopity :nopity

:sleep: :sleep: :sleep:

:D

 

I don't really understand your view here Ross. The website is vararam's public statement to its customers of how the product works.


"... imagine a large volume of air pre-packed behind the intake valve waiting for the valve to open. When the valve opens, this pre-packed air charge will create an even greater rush of high velocity air into the cylinder creating an even larger, faster pressure wave. This produces an even greater "Supercharging" effect. This is ram air."
http://www.vararam.com/technical01.html



They - from what I have read - seem to claim those pressure gains are responsible for most of the gains that the customer should get from the product.

Then I guess I don't understand why they are featured so prominently on the website.

Well, I can't speak for you (and in spite of your previous claims, I have no desire to :) ) but could that have been because that is what the vararam web site lead you to believe? It is called varaRAM afterall.


Hey, I thought that wasn't allowed here - TESTING, ONLY TESTING!!! :)

So nothing I said lead you to believe that? Maybe if Patrick says it, then it is true, but even though I had been saying the same thing all along - not only is what I was saying not true, its still not true even though it is the same thing as what Patrick says?

I'm baffled.

Could you throw me a link and I will go look at it?

WHAT GAME Ross? You haven't posted anything on the subject EXCEPT your track times.

It's not a game. I'm asking an HONEST QUESTION. I'll ask it again for the millionth time.

HOW does the vararam get its gains?

I'll wager a guess to the answer. SILENCE. Or "Tom, you aren't testing so your questions aren't valid." That's not even close to logical.

As a potential customer, I can't ask how something works UNTIL I spend $400 on it? The only time I have ever found such resistance to answering a simple question about a product is when it doesn't really do anything.

Hey, I've got a new product, it is a magnet that goes around your fuel line and puts the Carbon atoms in your gasoline in a straight line and makes the fuel atomize better and it is good for a 3-5% increase in hp. Wanna buy one?

NO QUESTIONS on how it works though. I just told you and that's all you need to know. You can't ask questions until you buy one!!! ]

What's the difference in my snake oil scam and the vararam?

You are probably right. But I won't say which league you are in and which league I am in...

The manufacturer has posted his answers on his website.

Ok, that's a start.

Filter material. He's using commercially available foams. You can do a search on the materials he is using and find that it is commonly used in filtration for industrial air conditioning units.

If that's the secret to vararam, we can all get the stuff really cheap online.

air velocity in the ram tube bend You think that airbox design improves velocity? It is designed to FIT in the space available.

airbox manifold volume based on filter spacing

His air filter location seems to be about where the stock on is - but if that is significant, then GM has a bunch of fools in their engineering dept throwing away all that hp because they aren't as smart as vararam and can't space the filter properly or use the right media.

It's already fast enough for track duty too. It's called bracket racing. You are running from the real topic here. This is not a discussion about WHY I want to make my Z06 faster or if it is for a ROSS B approved reason. You are diverting attention from the real discussion.

Thank you Ross. I imagine there are a FEW folks here that might feel differently.

Can we stay closer to the topic that is being discussed?


[Modified by Tom Steele, 1:10 PM 11/24/2002]

 

It might if we get enough posts like this one! :D

 

I still do not see one claim on that site that claims big time pressure gains.


>>>After thinking about it logically

>Hey, I thought that wasn't allowed
>here - TESTING, ONLY TESTING!!!

No Tom, I test and then analyze the results. That is where my logic falls into play. Your logic is based purely on the VR WWW site and some textbooks.


>So nothing I said lead you to believe that?
>Maybe if Patrick says it, then it is true,
>but even though I had been saying
>the same thing all along - not only is
>what I was saying not true, its still
>not true even though it is the same
>thing as what Patrick says?

That is right. Absolutely nothing you have said leads me to believe anything. I tested the product, logged some data showing that my motor was breathing differently, and then I discussed the results with the manufacturer. We then came to an agreement about what I should expect from the product and I was more than satisfied. I could have sent the product back for a full refund if I wanted to, but I decided that I liked the product. I am a technician Tom. I test parts, analyze the results, and then draw conclusions. I do not base my decisions on a textbook description or on something I read on the WWW. Sorry, but my education and job experience puts me in a position where I test everything. You told me that a book said I was going to get a .1 PSI increase in pressure. The book was wrong. And besides, the pressure increases you are talking about are just peak values. I am more interested in average values across the entire RPM range. My VR now usually matches BARO a few times in 4th gear during a 1/4 mile pass and the stock box was not able to do that. I guess you could call that 'boost' and then the WWW site would not be lying. To be quite honest, I really do not care what the WWW site's definition of boost is. I just want a performance increase, 'boost' is not what rings my bell.

You are trying to figure out what is going to happen in the real world with formulas. Sorry, but those formulas do not always add up. Take your car to the track over an entire course of the season with the same group of guys and watch how your car performs while watching the other Z06 cars. This is the only way to really see what is going on. Trying to compare Ranger's or J-Rods results to someone else's results just isn't all that accurate. The runs are done on different tracks, different days, and different weather. A better test is to watch the results you get all day and then compare them to a buddy's results on the same track, same day. For example the last time out I was trapping 91.x MPH in the 1/8th and 117.x in the 1/4. I had pretty consistent results the entire day. I looked at slips from 3 other stock Z06 cars (2002 & 2003 cars) and I saw them trapping about 89-90.x in the 1/8th and 113-114.x in the 1/4. That tells me that my car was making more power at the big end of the track. That is accurate real world testing. Same track, same day, same time, MPH splits compared.


>WHAT GAME Ross? You haven't posted
>anything on the subject EXCEPT
>your track times.

Are you for real? I've posted plenty of Autotap data. I've been told that I post too much of it in the past by a few choice members so I stopped.


>HOW does the vararam get its gains?

You will just doubt anything I tell you so you would be best off just calling Patrick. He is a very nice guy and will discuss his work with you at length.


>air velocity in the ram tube bend You think that
>airbox design improves velocity? It is
>designed to FIT in the space available.

This is exactly why I am not going to tell you anything. You are just too smart for me. You really know for a fact that it was designed to just FIT in the space available. Wow, how did you figure that one out without even seeing the product or speaking to the manufacturer?


>>>airbox manifold volume based on filter spacing

>His air filter location seems to be
>about where the stock on is - but if
>that is significant, then GM has a
>bunch of fools in their engineering
>dept throwing away all that hp
>because they aren't as smart as
>vararam and can't space the filter
>properly or use the right media.

That is not what I was talking about at all and this is exactly the response I expected from you. You are just too smart to talk to the manufacturer because you have already figured it all out. To figure all of this out without taking any measurements off the car is amazing.

Tell you what Tom, in one of your previous posts you said leaning your car and advancing the timing was going to safely build more power. Go ahead and do that with your stock box. When we all get together early next season (Ranger, Ric, Me, Les, Optic, etc..) bring your car and line up next to me. That is really the only way to see what works and what does not work. If you do show up I'll log data with my car, and then put my equipment in your car on the next run and log the same data in your car. You will then be able to see why I beat you on the same track, same day, same time.


You want to install heads & cam on a purely street driven Z06? Go ahead, you will never hook the car up and will end up breaking the speed limit in no time flat. I just hope that you don't kill someone that one of us knows.

 

Actually, I showed you a formula for pressure increase via velocity. That formula is still in textbooks today, but apparently it needs to be removed because Ross thinks it is wrong.

And the author of the book - Race to Win, by Carroll Smith, now must take a back seat to Ross B - who has much more knowledge than Carroll Smith.

I have asked you twice now for your data indicating you got 0.25 psi. You first said you couldn't be bothered to repost that data. So I asked for a link to that thread. And you can't do that either?

Ok Ross, then how is the vararam making hp in the first half of the track, or on the dyno?

Here's what doesn't add up. You are talking about pressure increases in 4th gear. How does that help your 1/8 mile e.t. by 0.3 seconds and 3 mphs? I don't just use formulas, I use my head. It doesn't take a formula to say, "Hey, that DOESN'T MAKE SENSE!"

Ok Ross. I'll agree with that statement. But that is the problem. I am willing to discuss whether the vararam makes more power than the stock air filter assembly. I'm not willing yet to agree that it does, but I'm willing to talk about it. That's where I meet the brick wall.

Why are you trapping so much higher in the 1/8 mile?

Oh come on, you're comparing different cars. You want good testing, compare your car with and without the vararam on the same day. Even compare your car over a period of runs with and without the vararam.

You picked up 3 mph and 0.3 tenths in the 1/8 mile on a day with a worse DA after installing the vararam. But since that doesn't fit with ram air, you don't like to talk about those timeslips now.

Seems to me you stopped posting autotap when I ASKED for it in the last thread. You didn't have time for me because I wasn't qualified to examine the data. That's very near an exact quote from the thread.

You assume a lot about my driving. Your timeslips aren't unbeatable by a stock Z06. And I'm probably a better driver than you think. But I suspect we are plenty far enough apart in geography to make that a safe challenge.

PLEASE. You can break the speed limit in no time flat with a stock Z06. We're getting kind of whacky now. You are telling us that no one should modify their Z06 unless they are going to take it to the track?

Using that logic, anyone who isn't going to the track shouldn't even get a Z06, a standard C5 is more than enough hp for the STREET. Are you the Corvette traffic cop now?


[Modified by Tom Steele, 6:48 PM 11/24/2002]

 

>I have asked you twice now for your data
>indicating you got 0.25 psi. You first said
>you couldn't be bothered to repost that data.
>So I asked for a link to that thread.
>And you can't do that either?

From my last time out:

Baro = 29.9

Highest MAP in 1st Gear = 29
AVG Map in 1st gear = 29 (Only 1 data point at WOT)

Highest MAP in 2nd Gear = 29.2
AVG Map in 2nd gear = 28.75

Highest MAP in 3rd Gear = 29.2
AVG Map in 3rd gear = 29

Highest MAP in 4th Gear = 29.8
AVG Map in 4th gear = 29.5

Gain of .5 inches of Mercury = 0.2456 psi


>Ok Ross, then how is the vararam making
>hp in the first half of the track, or on the dyno?

Ok Tom, Call Patrick.


>Oh come on, you're comparing different cars.

That is the only choice I have.


>You want good testing, compare your car with
>and without the vararam on the same day.

Sorry, but I don't have the desire or ability to to do this.


>Even compare your car over a period
>of runs with and without the vararam.

I did. My car now traps higher than it did before every single time. My car also trapped higher than every other stock Z06 car at the last few challenge events.


>You picked up 3 mph and 0.3 tenths
>in the 1/8 mile on a day with a worse DA
>after installing the vararam. But since that
>doesn't fit with ram air, you don't like to
>talk about those timeslips now.

What is this 'ram-air'? :confused: I have no idea what that means. My old slips are old news now. I have been talking about my most recent 117.x MPH slips.


>Seems to me you stopped posting
>autotap when I ASKED for it in the last thread.

I've posted enough data.


>You assume a lot about my driving. Your
>timeslips aren't unbeatable by a stock Z06.

Pretty funny statement to make considering the fact that you have yet to drag your car and you have yet to watch a day of Z06 runs. How in the world would you know? Even if someone does get a better 60' than me and beats my E.T I will trap higher and I will have a bigger spread between my 1/8th MPH and 1/4 MPH.


>And I'm probably a better driver than you think.

Sure you are, keyboard racers are always the fastest guys out there.

Les is going to setup a friendly get together in the spring. Please keep your schedule open.