Can you afford hearing aids in the future?

 

One word: Ghetto.

Plenty of great cat back exhausts. Pick one.

 

my daily 25mpg 3000lbs auto approaching 1000hp is quieter than the stock engine

No point in making noise for no reason, why the headache

You never grow up, thats how kids think, attention me everybody look at my car

get off my lawn kids

 

There's nothing immature or childish about loving the sound of Borla ATAK exhaust or any other aftermarket exhaust. Essentially, you are calling virtually all Corvette track guys and many Corvette owners on this forum immature. To state that I never grew up is absurd and childish on your part, as you don't know know me and yet you hurl insults like a petulant schoolboy. Furthermore, liking the throaty sound of a V-8 has nothing to do with trying to get attention. I'm skeptical that you have a nearly 1000 horsepower car with quieter exhaust than stock. Very doubtful in a Corvette. Ironically, Corvette, Ferrari, McLaren, Porsche, and Lamborghini would probably be out of business if their cars weren't look-at-me attention-grabbing as well as high-performing, as few customers desire a boring car with high horsepower.

 

Uhhh wrong. You are associating power with noise and that is not true. I guess those Civics out there with fat can mufflers ripping around must make gobs of power... Sure, a performance engine with higher compression will have some noise to it, but the exhaust/muffler selection is completely subjective and unrelated to the power it makes. The more power a motor makes can make it more difficult to tame the exhaust, but it's not impossible.

A properly designed exhaust system can be made to be "quiet" and not lose any power over a system that wakes the dead 5 blocks away. How you like your car to sound is subjective and your choice but don't make claims that a quiet car is not making power.

I'd rather be quieter making 500hp than having my ears bleed from a loud exhaust and making 300hp. I like my bite louder than my bark.

 

It's fine if you like a loud exhaust, but loud does NOT equal power. The stock Z06 Ti exhaust will make almost the same (within 2-4hp) amount of power as the very best performing aftermarket exhausts on the market. The Z06 exhaust is lighter than many aftermarket systems as well. While it is true that some high power builders choose to put on a louder exhaust, many don't. I have the Z06 exhaust on my 500WHP supercharged setup. Exhaust sound is completely subjective, and it all depends on what you like. As you said, your Porche was fast, but quiet. Being loud is a choice that is totally separate from being fast.

There is a big difference between a Borla ATAK and going with no mufflers (which is what the OP was asking about). Again, it is all subjective. However, the VAST majority of Corvette owners do feel like the car does not sound good with no mufflers. The sound of an American V8 is all well and good. I like a nice rumble myself. However, I also have respect for those around me (like my neighbors) who might not want to clearly hear that rumble while they're lying in their bed at night or early in the morning. Even if they're sitting on their couch watching a movie in the middle of the afternoon, they shouldn't be forced to hear my car drive by 2 blocks away just because I think it sounds cool. That's where the "maturity" comes into play. I want to be clear that this is not meant at all as a slight against you. I am NOT calling you immature. Maturity also does not necessarily reflect a person's age. A race car can be loud because it is only being driven at the track. Even then, many tracks limit the amount of noise a car can make. This is done to meet local noise ordinances. These (often unenforced) laws are there to protect others. I'm sure your cars sound bada$$. Your neighbors may even think so too, but I bet they hate you sometimes. Just something to think about.

 

Immature in the sense of controls education, as an aspecting theory of mechanical control- without any room for confusion that this is an undeniable truth with respect to the definition of any controls application, noise unnecessarily uncontrolled/released which serves no practical purpose or value which may obscure diagnostically useful information.

Immature is not an insult; it is a state of being or placement on the pathway which has no ending, and so we may only compare what we consider mature concepts with anything else. Maturity in the sense of mechanical devices is simply what I would call as Control; or lack thereof.


The perspective and (biology) ideology behind arriving as an advanced mechanical "person"- beyond mechanics, tuning, engineering, etc... there is a thought process and derived education which can encompass the philosophy for mechanical behaviors. As a doctor of philosophy in mechanical engineering I realize the education component cannot help us understand the advanced nature of performance philosophy, as it requires both experience AND education... and also aptitude, curiosity, novelty. The highest tier component of these concepts is condensed into an infinite array of educational materials known as Control Theory (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_theory).

Control Theory is difficult to explain with words. I barely grasp it myself with even my minuscule understanding is decades of engineering mathematics. The essence of control distills into behavior. For example tire behavior, suspension behavior, fuel system behavior, engine behavior, etc... Car suspensions for example produce sounds, some called harmonics which combine and cancel which are sounds as we tune the suspension (engineering the sound of suspension systems) to produce a vehicle with acceptable behaviors for its application derived inputs. Suspension bridges and buildings alike endure the similar concept; incorrect sound wave tuning leads to disaster, falling buildings, broken bridges, uncontrollable vehicles. The sounds produced by a vehicle, drivetrain, suspension, parts; can enter fluids, solids, gasses, travel, combine, cancel, in unexpected ways. They can be harnesses as helpful or dismissed painfully. The waves produced by combustion is sound which may be tuned, or controlled similarly, put to work (flow work & water hammer resonance tuning) or partly/wholly eliminated.

The act of 'tuning' something involves controlling it's output behavior, safety, reliability, and so forth; often the original engineers of some well designed parts have implemented design strategy which may be lost due to modifications with unexpected consequences due to the discrete nature of sound manifesting as a control behavior.


The sound of performance engine is an integral component of a performance vehicle, whether you can hear it or not is irrelevant, as It should not be ignored; but rather, controlled properly as is done by OEM engineers, usually. This is where we may define maturity in the sense of sound controls application for modified performance vehicle venue with respect to what is possible given the current state of our technology and what is available at the most affordable or ease of access tools concerning aftermarket installations of parts with any magnitude of replacement values.
There is a striking difference in sound controls quality between an engineered vehicle which have been fully developed as a final product, which may be able to harmlessly release some produced sounds predictably, safely,... compared to aftermarket assemblage of parts that have no engineering culminating sound control on behalf of the owner which will produce unexpected and unknown sounds with particular lack of control and awareness. Common examples include unexpected drivetrain vibrations, knock sensor out of range, inadequate suspension behavior, unwanted engine movement, novel transmission/gear whines, exhaust drone, &c

When sound is useful.... and when it isn't
Engine sound has a diagnostically useful approach. Listening to engine sound can reveal information critical or helpful to the tuning process. Therefore, being able to listen to the cylinders fire and 'making noise' is certainly a tuning component for engine behavior, that is, controlling engine behavior for the operator in a meaningful sense and perhaps with respect to the reliability of the engine tuned behaviors.
By the same yet opposite approach the necessity of a noise-less engine is equally or perhaps even more important. The engine's and transmission's internal rotating components have their own sounds, their own behaviors, ticks and tocks, tings clangs knocks of clockwork contained within. The parts inside an engine/transmission/drivetrain produce many sounds and it is our job (If you are an advanced tuning master) to listen to those noises and derive necessary information from those sounds in your work and efforts to produce a reliable engine behavior.
Therefore a noisy engine a loud exhaust system is an affront to tuning efforts; it is a reliability liability. It is hiding the necessary noises that a practical tuning approach demands we listen to.

This sharp duality of tuning approach will eventually reveal a component for tuning mastery, understanding the concept and necessity of sounds control behavior. The need to both hear the engine combustion events unrestrained; and to not hear it. The need to listen to every tick tock and knock inside the engine without the sound of an exhaust note obfuscating the diagnostic value of such an approach.


We need an exhaust system which can provide both situations, simultaneously. This mature tuning theory with respect to the lowest level of sound control that anybody can achieve affordably. It is well below the ideology of engineering; we are merely interested in the diagnostic and useful approach for both sides of the same coin; it has nothing to do with having a 'nice sounding exhaust'; if noise is unnecessary then it is unnecessary. Dogs barking in the distance.

A mostly straight system adequately muffled with the cutout allows diagnostic noise and diagnostic complete silence.


Reliable Power on gasoline engines comes from a turbocharger which can provide any power desired with adequate muffling does not need to be heard.

A turbocharger provides any power# an engine can handle.

A 2L engine can make 500hp with a 500hp turbo
A 6L engine can make 500hp with a 500hp turbo

The engine displacement is meaningless once we achieve the necessity of atmospheric control, all power is available. Noise is optional.

 

 

Agree. Boasting one’s level of education i.e. PHD to invoke some form of reverence for the topic espoused smacks of some deep seeded insecurity to me. If I have to put out who I am, what I am or what Ive done to ensure believability then you damn well better believe it! All said in the end I just hope I’m mature enough for my mufflers. 🤞🤞

 

I've never seen or heard of a 1000 hp V-8 vehicle with stock-like quiet exhaust. Would be interesting to hear a sound clip of something like that. Perhaps our definition of "quiet" exhaust is different? In most cases, aftermarket exhaust is less restrictive and unleashes at least some more horsepower. For example, AWE Tour exhaust for the Corvette C7 increases whp by 22 whp and 20 lb. ft. of wheel torque, according to their dyno tests. Quiet exhaust is almost always more restrictive than aftermarket exhaust. True, not all aftermarket exhaust is "loud", but almost always they are at least somewhat louder than stock exhaust. I probably should clarify that I choose "loud" exhaust, not "deafening". When I bought one of my supercharged C5s, it was straight-piped with no mufflers. Needless to say, it was deafening, in my opinion, so I installed a catback Borla S-Type II exhaust, which is moderate at idle but gets louder (but not deafening) under throttle. My other supercharged C5 has the Borla ATAK, which is loud even at idle but as loud as straight pipes or the extremely loud Mustangs in my region. On long trips as well as around town, there is no "ear bleeding" or deafness like there is in a straight-piped V-8. The best part is that there is NO drone with either of my Borla exhausts, unlike the irritating drone experienced with another aftermarket exhaust that came with a previously owned C5 convertible at certain speeds when its top was up. Regardless, I want both (power and an intoxicating V-8 sound). Put another way, I want my bite and my bark to be ferocious. In fact, I recently purchased a "nearly new" Borla ATAK catback for possible future installation in place of my S-Type II setup. I'll leave the "quiet bark but ferocious bite" to the Tesla Plaid and Lucid Air Dream and Rimac Nevera (0-60 in 1.7 seconds) crowd.

 

A stock C5 can’t even do O-60 FEET in 1.7 seconds.

 

I am not picking on you. I want to make a big picture for you: Power is meaningless because of turbocharging- we can have any power we want. 2500hp for example. A stock engine from 2005 from a truck will support 800rwhp for 350,000 miles in a daily driver. There is only a line between aftermarket blocks and factory blocks because of main girdle support and chassis plate. The block is primary limiting factor- not the internals. Forged or aftermarket internals in a factory block from 2005 is pointless for advanced users.

Understanding the limitation of an engine in general and understanding how to get the power you want is the connection between mature thinking way and nickle-dime power increments with unnecessary noise and vibrations.
You speak of exhaust as if it will improve something; it improves nothing. It does nothing. It is a waste of time and money and effort just like aftermarket air intake systems and forged internals for daily drivers using factory blocks. This is the big picture. Use the compressor to generate desired power. Use the necessary mufflers to make it as quiet as needed for you to be comfortable. That is the message I bring from 25 years of tuning a thousand turbo daily drivers.