I'm gonna get trashed, but here it goes. I lurked this site for the last 3 years listening to all these posters demanding long tubes are an absolute must. I purchased a 02 C5z with a Honker, AFR heads and a very mild mid 20's cam. My exhaust manifold on the passenger side cracked, so my first thought was long tubes. While searched FB marketplace, I found a really good deal on open box of Hooker shorties (Part # 70301313-RHKR) that the guy never got around to installing. They are like 900 brand new so I couldn't turn it down. The fitment was perfect! All I needed to do was remove the Alternator and air hoses for the install. Took me 2 hours. I kept the stock cats and H-pipe with some dual tip stingers.. On a mustang dyno it did 421 WHP and 447 Torque. I understand the heads and cam had something to do with it, but speaking to the tuner he told me, at most, I might get 12 more hp if I added long tubes. To me, 3 grand for that minimal gain isn't worth it. I understand if you are doing a more serious build than its a must. But I'm so tired of people acting like if you don't have long tubes your car won't be quick. Let's all be honest most guys on here do it make their exhaust sound better and I'm not disagreeing with that because it definitely does. Keep in mind I'm just a "have fun on the highway" driver, I have no desire to track it. My peak HP with this set up is around 5200 which is actually usable on the street. Just wanted to give some of my actual real life data driven insight, instead of the gym bro comments. I can post the dynos if anyone is interested.
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Any chance you had pulls recorded before and after the headers? Did you add just the headers to get the final results? I assume a final tune was performed with the new headers. Any comments on sound changes under hood and at exhaust tips? I would like to hear more about your results.

Thanks

 

The issue is that the guy I purchased it from didn't use a mustang dyno so its comparing apples to crab apples. He said his last dyno (with the stock manifolds) was 415 and 442. However I was told by the tuner that mustang dyno's give the lowest results for vettes. So my guess would be somewhere around 10-15 hp and torque gain, not to mention the weight savings. Only other things I replaced were the plugs and wires (AC delcos). Definitely gave the exhaust more throat and volume no question. No increase in engine or cabin noise to speak of. It is absolutely torquier than before. Could that be from the new tune? Tough to tell. I get complimented all the time how it sounds. Very minor chopping, but still a great idle. Tuner told me he just did a tune for a guy with an 01 z with 228r and longtubes (no heads upgrade) and I smoked it.

 

Shorties help more than manifolds on the '97-2000 models. Not as much on the '01-up models. Just sayin'.....

 

I know all about the manifold changes, hence why I threw in a comparative 01z. Once again you're "just saying" and I'm showing you real life data. I think those numbers are pretty respectable.

 

I only did this because my manifold cracked. I had no desire to ever go the header route. It was more out of necessity and I was pleasantly surprised with the results.

 

I understand why youre doing it. Also, when I say "just saying," it isnt based on non data. Its based on personal experience. I had a set of shorties on my 2000 A4 C5 years ago. They did help. Not as much as the Kooks LTs I have had since 2005. But I gained power enough to reduce ET by .3 in the quarter mile. Discounting what I am saying is fine. But I did run 12.50s@114mph with my 2000 A4 vert. Fast enough that I was kicked out of the race that day! Totally stock LS1 internals, just boltons. By comparison, with my stock exhaust manifolds in place, I ran a best of 12.89@110mph. So, you can see my just saying IS based on data, and a LOT of experience.......

 

Simply put…you realized a small gain under the curve and at peak with the shorties. In the area of about 3 to 7rwhp. Test proven by many and Richard Holdner on YT. I ran BBK shorties for 7 years on my first heads/cam build with the original 228r (228/228/112) when I lived in CA 20 years ago. So I also have real time experience with them. I also upgraded to Kooks Longtubes with a slightly bigger cam with more overlap and realized 28whp gains over the 228r with the same ported and milled WCCH heads. So the gains realized from LTs vs. shorties was more than triple. The more power the engine makes and the more overlap in the cam the greater the gains from LTs..Are LTs worth the added cost? To some, yes, depending on build goals.


Comparing the ‘01 with 20 less HP out of the box to your ‘02, with a similar cam grind worth maybe 35 to 45 peak rwhp, but the ‘01 running OEM #243’s at less than 45 to 50whp compared to $2k+ AFRs is not a fair comparison. Most of the power in an LS1/LS6 build comes from the heads that are used. So apples and bananas without the same heads on both cars.


I’d like to see your dyno graph. The torque numbers are astronomically high for a mid 20’s spec cam.

 

But it wasn't triple, you just stated that when you added the LTs you added slightly bigger cam. Unless I'm reading this wrong. Also I would like to add I only paid 200 for the shorties. 2800 dollar difference and lets not even get into the cost of getting a shop to install LTs your looking at 4k around my way. I'll post the dyno when I get home.

 

The slightly bigger custom ground cam was good for about the same peak HP. Just different characteristics under the curve and now the car is boosted. So yeah, the LT to shorty variance was about triple. If you love your shorties that’s great. There is more power to be made with LTs especially if you go FI.

Installing the LTs is a pain DIY for sure. But that’s why most opt for higher quality tubes due to easier install and perfect fitment. Thats where the $2800 with the X-pipe comes in. DNA cheapy LTs are like $400 and produce similar gains to high end LTs. So you don’t need to drop the coin you think you do for LTs.

Took me and my brother a few hours to do his. Mine went on the engine before we put it back in the car. So I wouldn’t pay a shop to that job either.

 

 

I’d never buy them at MSRP. But for $200 the improved aesthetics alone under the hood is worth it in my opinion. I paid $250 for the BBK shorties 21 years ago from a forum member. Then sold them 10 years and 80k miles later to another forum member at the same price.

 

If I ever go that route down the road I'll have to take a look at them. I'm assuming they are cat-less only?

 

The cats are in the X-pipe not the header. And most X-pipes will be catless for “off-road” use. But you can buy a catless one and weld in high flow cats like Magnaflows. That’s what I did back in CA with a Bassani X-pipe.

 

I know where the cats are bro..... I thought you were referring to a full system. I'm good on the frankenstein exhausts. I wonder if throwing a Borla xpipe would give me anything or just change the sound.

 

The headers are $400. You thought you’d get a full system including X-pipe and cats for $400? And that “Frankenstein” x-pipe had better welds than GMs H pipe that’s for certain.

 

X-pipe is going to change sound for an improved note over the geriatric boat farts that come out the H-pipe and stock exhaust. The Ti is better than the standard exhaust for exhaust note but it’s still pathetic on sound in my opinion. Performance gain is negligible.

 

No I didn't think that at all. That's why i continued to inquire because it seemed ridiculously cheap.

 

If I can figure out how to post a vid on here I will. My set up doesn't sound like a vette at all in my opinion even with the H pipe. Zero motorboat over here.

 

The cam helped you remediate that awful OEM sound. Without that cam it’s just as awful as the rest of them with stock exhaust. Click the paperclip on the top right in the tool bar within the reply window. Then just read the directions.