You don't have to see it or understand it. It doesn't affect you. Why are you trying so hard to convince other folks that they don't need !CAGS? Installing a CAGS defeat took 15 minutes and cost $20 and is easily, IMO, one of the best cost/time/benefit modifications I've ever made (to M6 Z28 and M6 C5).

 

I never said you don't need CAGS. I said you don't need a CAGS defeat mod. I'm just trying to help people to understand they don't need to spend more money on their car, for something that really isn't needed. If you understand how and when CAGS works, you can easily defeat it with driving habits.

 

Semantics. I understood what nuke was saying. Anyone who buys a $50k car has $15 in the ash tray. And, I certainly would rather pay attention to the blonde next to me rather than worring about my shift points.

By the way, aren't we off topic? The answer to the original question would be, "After market product."

 

Defeating or rendering CAGS inoperative will not damage the car in any way and is a personal preference. (I personally hated it!) But let the dealer find out and it's INSTANT bye bye to the warranty! If your car is under warranty make sure you put it back to stock before taking it to the dealer for any work. This is something they look for!
Jim

 

Don't think that a dealer can claim a voided warranty for a relay on the transmission, unless it causes the warranty issue, which I cannot imagine.

 

You're correct. The Moss-Magnusson Act allows aftermarket parts without voiding the warrantee. The exceptions are:
1) If your warrantee specifically says you can't do it.
2) If something breaks, the warrantor must show a direct cause between what you installed and the parts breakage.

The dealer may try and screw you over and tell you flat out that you voided your warrantee by installing aftermarket parts, but if they do, they are flat out LYING to you (unless they can show you where in the warrantee that you cannot install aftermarket parts)

If they give you grief, be nice. If they still want to play hardball, mention Moss-Magnusson, the Federal Trade Commission, and the Attorney General.

TooTall was also correct about semantics... telling people one time, "do X, Y, and Z, and you won't ever have to shift from 1st to 4th" is quite different from "I don't understand why you guys are making such a big deal about CAGS, just drive faster," repeated several times.

 

If this were true then even using an aftermarket shifter **** would void your warranty. Or putting on other than OEM tires.

 

Here's one way of putting it.

I don't change my driving habbits to suit the car.
Instead, I change the car to suit my driving habbits.
I'm the boss, not the car. I tell it what to do, and it obeys.

 

There are a few scenarios where CAGS is really a safety hazard. For example, in traffic and making a turn, if you try to shift in the intersection, sometimes you don't have enough RPM or speed. If there are other cars, you often end up in 4th at a very low speed and have very little torque to take any evasive action. I just don't see any reason NOT to defeat it!

 

I don't see why you would want to shift at such a low rpm in an intersection. Just keep accelerating, it won't hurt the engine.

 

And there it is again... "I don't see why you would want..."

There are obviously people who DO think CAGS is irritating and would rather change the CAR than change their driving behavior. Get over it.

 

Don't believe it??
Ask your dealer. I do contract work for a dealer who sells more than their share of Corvettes and they are voiding warranties for this practice all the time. The customer then phones GM and gets NOWHERE! This feature is put there to achieve a government mandate for fuel economy. Some cars don't meet fuel requirements set by the government and CAGS is the manufacturers answer to meeting it and they are obligated to see that the system stays operational at least until the warranty expires.. Without CAGS the manufacturer is required to pay huge penalties for vehicles produced that don't meet the requirements. This is not like changing the shifter **** or adding mudflaps. The dealer is obligated to enforce the tampering of such devices. This explanation came from a customer (friend) who fought a long loosing battle with GM because he disconnected his cags, and the service manager of the dealer I do work for. However!!! I do know dealers who do NOT care if you do this?? Just be careful of the dealer you are dealing with. Once the warranty has been blocked, it shows up on all of the computers in all the dealers linked to the system.
Jim

 

Don't believe it??
Ask your dealer. I do contract work for a dealer who sells more than their share of Corvettes and they are voiding warranties for this practice all the time. The customer then phones GM and gets NOWHERE!

I don't doubt your claim that GM is voiding warranties based on !CAGS, but it is, IMO, a violation of Moss-Magnusson and they are winning because the have bigger dollars for the lawyers.

This feature is put there to achieve a government mandate for fuel economy.

CAFE - Corporate Average Fuel Economy. Current standards are 27.5 mpg, and any car that cannot meet the minimum of 22.5 mpg will be taxed as a "Gas Guzzler" -- light trucks and SUVs are exempt from the Gas Guzzler tax.

and they are obligated to see that the system stays operational at least until the warranty expires..

That may be what GM is claiming, but it is not in the EPA CAFE laws... see for yourself, because maybe I missed it:
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/...istlation.htm#

Without CAGS the manufacturer is required to pay huge penalties for vehicles produced that don't meet the requirements.

Not true. Individual cars may need the Gas Guzzler tax applied to it (Viper) but HOW they meet CAFE standards is up to the manufacturer. Nowhere do the regulations tell the manufacturers how the meet the 27.
7 mpg corporage average. Do you think Toyota, Ford, DC, etc. all have CAGS or a version of it? They don't.

The dealer is obligated to enforce the tampering of such devices.

According to what law?

 

I would like to see the test results GM used that warranted using CAGS to begin with. I can't help but wonder if a conservative driver still couldn't get the required mpg without CAGS. Because it seems like the bogging down a first to fourth shift does to the engine, is just a waste of fuel.

Either way it's crap that light trucks and SUV's are exempt from the gas guzzler tax. There are more of them on the road than sports cars!

 

I don't want to get into a pi$$ing contest about who is right and who is wrong here. CAGS isn't something GM dreamed up to make your car more enjoyable to drive. Why do you think it's there?
Auto makers like GM etc. are trying to meet fuel consumption limits set by government agencies. There are several ways a car company can get money or tax consessions from government. Saving fuel is just one of them. Honda just changed their oil requirements for their 03 models to a 5W-20 from 5W-30. If you check the engine specs you will see that no changes were made in respect to bearing, piston or ring clearances for any of their engines from 02 to 03 but red line rev limits and oil change intervals have. This change was made because they can prove that the car will go down the road and save fuel with the lighter oil. One Honda or 100 Hondas won't make a difference, but tens of thousands produced will. This is public information and Honda has no problem telling you why they did it.
The Moss-Magnusson Act allows aftermarket parts without voiding the warrantee. The exceptions are:
1) If your warrantee specifically says you can't do it.

Read your warranty. It says that if you tamper with any emission device your warranty could be void. They consider the fuel system and all supporting devices part of the emissions system.

I can only assume that the dealers are voiding warranties for this practice because they are being told to by the manufacturer to do it. Why else would they?? The manufacturer is bound by the deal they made with the government agency that's coughing up the money or tax break to make sure the device or devices stay working. After the warranty has expired the manufacturer doesn't care what you do. There is no law telling them to do this but there's probably a legal agreement somewhere.

Just ask yourself. CAGS...........WHY??????????
Jim

 

I don't want to get into a pi$$ing contest about who is right and who is wrong here. CAGS isn't something GM dreamed up to make your car more enjoyable to drive. Why do you think it's there?

I didn't want to get into a pissing contest either... I just wanted to know the legal basis that GM is using to void a warranty. Your mention of tampering with emissions equipment is probably the excuse they're using.