dyno tune vs street tune
11-19-2007, 09:59 AM
#6
Former Vendor
I prefer both.Street tuning to get all the part throttle,basic WOT tuning followed by WOT pulls on the dyno.This is how we do it.
You call use a load bearing dyno but I had problems with them getting the tunes right on,expecially with ram air setup's.
You call use a load bearing dyno but I had problems with them getting the tunes right on,expecially with ram air setup's.
11-19-2007, 11:09 AM
#7
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The load bearing dyno is to create the closest to real world conditions, and does provide a safe, controlled environment. This is why a street tune works well, if done properly by an experienced tuner, not your average Joe, working for spare money as a sideline. 
I have shown a great many people where they have detonation and incorrect AFR, caused by tuners who use non loaded dynos, and did not do their job properly, either. It is not a "quick" hour process, when it is done properly, the process goes methodically step by step, and takes time.
I have shown a great many people where they have detonation and incorrect AFR, caused by tuners who use non loaded dynos, and did not do their job properly, either. It is not a "quick" hour process, when it is done properly, the process goes methodically step by step, and takes time.
11-19-2007, 05:57 PM
#8
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11-19-2007, 06:10 PM
#9
Le Mans Master
I actually now love using the dyno but have changed my program. We usually do 1-3 days of street tuning to dial the car in followed by 1-2 hours on the dyno. Once the street tuning is done, we dyno to verify best spark curve and best air/fuel for your setup. The VE table, MAF and idle tables are dialed in to precision. I very rarely hear about idle problems, or any of the other complaints. Most people say it drives like stock and the cam disappears. One of my last cars picked up a very big amout of HP and torque...roughly 100 at the tires. 
11-19-2007, 06:52 PM
#10
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St. Jude Donor '07-'08-'09-'10-'12-'13-'14
Right on Target!
DragMan.... Right on target....
Street tuning all the way.... All too many Vette owners get caught up in the illusion and hype of dyno numbers...
Fact is, most guys that dyno tune focus entirely too much on "peak" numbers and unfortunately completely ignore the bottom end.....leaving the customer with nothing more than "peak numbers" and no bite to match the bark....
Let's face it....Less than 1% (one...and YES, I meant LESS THAN ONE PER CENT OF YOU OUT THERE) do not own or drive "track cars" and likely.....0% of you out there leave your driveway at like 4 or 5 thousand RPM each time you take your vette out for a drive.....and how silly you would look leaving the traffic light in the middle of your town at say 4,500 RPM launch!
Yes boys....there is life (and performance) below 5 grand... In fact...99.9% of your Vette Driving Life is under redline...
Lately it seems that I spend more time RE-TUNING guys that are very disappointed with their "DYNO" tunes.... Wanting better performance...mileage....bla bla bla.....
It would seem that dyno tuning is not necessarily the way to go for anyone with a "street car"....(which by the way is 99.99999999% of you. )
Take it from me...I tune LOTS of cars and got very popular doing it....My way.....
For those who care....(bite my tongue) CoW will likely be seeing a new dyno before spring.....If the space opens up....I'm gonna do it....
I'm not saying it's a better way to tune....but, it will give the guys that want #'s.....what they want.
STAY (STREET) TUNED!
Chuck CoW
Street tuning all the way.... All too many Vette owners get caught up in the illusion and hype of dyno numbers...
Fact is, most guys that dyno tune focus entirely too much on "peak" numbers and unfortunately completely ignore the bottom end.....leaving the customer with nothing more than "peak numbers" and no bite to match the bark....
Let's face it....Less than 1% (one...and YES, I meant LESS THAN ONE PER CENT OF YOU OUT THERE) do not own or drive "track cars" and likely.....0% of you out there leave your driveway at like 4 or 5 thousand RPM each time you take your vette out for a drive.....and how silly you would look leaving the traffic light in the middle of your town at say 4,500 RPM launch!
Yes boys....there is life (and performance) below 5 grand... In fact...99.9% of your Vette Driving Life is under redline...
Lately it seems that I spend more time RE-TUNING guys that are very disappointed with their "DYNO" tunes.... Wanting better performance...mileage....bla bla bla.....
It would seem that dyno tuning is not necessarily the way to go for anyone with a "street car"....(which by the way is 99.99999999% of you.
)Take it from me...I tune LOTS of cars and got very popular doing it....My way.....
For those who care....(bite my tongue) CoW will likely be seeing a new dyno before spring.....If the space opens up....I'm gonna do it....
I'm not saying it's a better way to tune....but, it will give the guys that want #'s.....what they want.
STAY (STREET) TUNED!
Chuck CoW
Last edited by Chuck CoW; 11-27-2007 at 08:29 PM.
11-20-2007, 01:51 AM
#12
Safety Car
The load bearing dyno is to create the closest to real world conditions, and does provide a safe, controlled environment. This is why a street tune works well, if done properly by an experienced tuner, not your average Joe, working for spare money as a sideline.
I have shown a great many people where they have detonation and incorrect AFR, caused by tuners who use non loaded dynos, and did not do their job properly, either. It is not a "quick" hour process, when it is done properly, the process goes methodically step by step, and takes time.
I have shown a great many people where they have detonation and incorrect AFR, caused by tuners who use non loaded dynos, and did not do their job properly, either. It is not a "quick" hour process, when it is done properly, the process goes methodically step by step, and takes time.
The #1 reason is it's safer. But it has to be a load bearing Dyno, and not a plain on accelerometer. But you need good fresh air flow for it to be accurate. Once tuned, then some logging on the street can be done and any fine adjustments can be made afterwards.
11-20-2007, 10:53 AM
#13
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St. Jude Donor '05-'08
The use of both is the best way to get the correct tune. Street because we all drive on the street and you want perfect idle when pulling in and out of a parking space, but also Dyno for WOT pulls which are not safe on the street.
You have to remember at 140 mph it is not easy to pay attention to the street and the computer thus the dyno tune allows the tuner to focus on the tune in a safe environment. HP/TQ numbers from the dyno just happen to be an end result of the entire process which frankly many people like to see after spending a good chunk of coin on their mods.
So for one to argue that a street tune is better than a dyno is probably correct, but the shops that provide both (like ECS
) are providing their customers with better service for the same or less money in many instances.
BTW - There are other factors that you should consider when shopping around for a tuner. Does the tuner have a good reputation. Does the tuner have results that can be measured.
If you are into 1/4 mile racing does your tuner have proven setups in that environment. If you are into road racing does your tuner have proven setups in that environment. Remember tuners that are out testing their cars week in and week out on the track are doing it to log data which in the end helps the daily driver. Sure not everyone races, but if a tune can withstand racing environments then it can stand up to the typical weekend warrior.
What type of equipment does the tuner use - is it outdated? does the tuner use wideband? Is the dyno in good shape?
These are just some extra things you should consider.
You have to remember at 140 mph it is not easy to pay attention to the street and the computer thus the dyno tune allows the tuner to focus on the tune in a safe environment. HP/TQ numbers from the dyno just happen to be an end result of the entire process which frankly many people like to see after spending a good chunk of coin on their mods.
So for one to argue that a street tune is better than a dyno is probably correct, but the shops that provide both (like ECS
) are providing their customers with better service for the same or less money in many instances.BTW - There are other factors that you should consider when shopping around for a tuner. Does the tuner have a good reputation. Does the tuner have results that can be measured.
If you are into 1/4 mile racing does your tuner have proven setups in that environment. If you are into road racing does your tuner have proven setups in that environment. Remember tuners that are out testing their cars week in and week out on the track are doing it to log data which in the end helps the daily driver. Sure not everyone races, but if a tune can withstand racing environments then it can stand up to the typical weekend warrior.
What type of equipment does the tuner use - is it outdated? does the tuner use wideband? Is the dyno in good shape?
These are just some extra things you should consider.
11-20-2007, 01:12 PM
#14
Team Owner
The use of both is the best way to get the correct tune. Street because we all drive on the street and you want perfect idle when pulling in and out of a parking space, but also Dyno for WOT pulls which are not safe on the street.
You have to remember at 140 mph it is not easy to pay attention to the street and the computer thus the dyno tune allows the tuner to focus on the tune in a safe environment. HP/TQ numbers from the dyno just happen to be an end result of the entire process which frankly many people like to see after spending a good chunk of coin on their mods.
So for one to argue that a street tune is better than a dyno is probably correct, but the shops that provide both (like ECS ) are providing their customers with better service for the same or less money in many instances.
BTW - There are other factors that you should consider when shopping around for a tuner. Does the tuner have a good reputation. Does the tuner have results that can be measured.
If you are into 1/4 mile racing does your tuner have proven setups in that environment. If you are into road racing does your tuner have proven setups in that environment. Remember tuners that are out testing their cars week in and week out on the track are doing it to log data which in the end helps the daily driver. Sure not everyone races, but if a tune can withstand racing environments then it can stand up to the typical weekend warrior.
What type of equipment does the tuner use - is it outdated? does the tuner use wideband? Is the dyno in good shape?
These are just some extra things you should consider.
You have to remember at 140 mph it is not easy to pay attention to the street and the computer thus the dyno tune allows the tuner to focus on the tune in a safe environment. HP/TQ numbers from the dyno just happen to be an end result of the entire process which frankly many people like to see after spending a good chunk of coin on their mods.
So for one to argue that a street tune is better than a dyno is probably correct, but the shops that provide both (like ECS
) are providing their customers with better service for the same or less money in many instances.BTW - There are other factors that you should consider when shopping around for a tuner. Does the tuner have a good reputation. Does the tuner have results that can be measured.
If you are into 1/4 mile racing does your tuner have proven setups in that environment. If you are into road racing does your tuner have proven setups in that environment. Remember tuners that are out testing their cars week in and week out on the track are doing it to log data which in the end helps the daily driver. Sure not everyone races, but if a tune can withstand racing environments then it can stand up to the typical weekend warrior.
What type of equipment does the tuner use - is it outdated? does the tuner use wideband? Is the dyno in good shape?
These are just some extra things you should consider.
I never said that you could quote me, Bob!
11-20-2007, 02:30 PM
#16
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I for one drive my car 100 miles to the track (usually little or no traffic in the am), swap street tires to drag radials (actually carry jack, impact gun etc), Race all day, then change back to street tires and start the long arduos 100 mile drive back to Long Island. As all in the area know, traffic through Staten Island, Varrazzano and Belt Parkway can be start and stop til you want to cut off your clutch leg 
So basically it will run @ 1200 rpm / 10 mph (3 hrs) to 6700 rpm / 121 mph (11.9 seconds) and all points in between. That is based on a Street/Dyno tune from The Vette Doctors. Not sure about all the debate on street vs. dyno or life under 5000 RPM 
I believe you need both to dial the car in. I guess from above, some tuners only tune above 5K 
How long will they be in business 
So basically it will run @ 1200 rpm / 10 mph (3 hrs) to 6700 rpm / 121 mph (11.9 seconds) and all points in between. That is based on a Street/Dyno tune from The Vette Doctors.
Not sure about all the debate on street vs. dyno or life under 5000 RPM I believe you need both to dial the car in. I guess from above, some tuners only tune above 5K How long will they be in business
11-20-2007, 03:35 PM
#18
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St. Jude Donor '05-'08
I for one drive my car 100 miles to the track (usually little or no traffic in the am), swap street tires to drag radials (actually carry jack, impact gun etc), Race all day, then change back to street tires and start the long arduos 100 mile drive back to Long Island. As all in the area know, traffic through Staten Island, Varrazzano and Belt Parkway can be start and stop til you want to cut off your clutch leg
So basically it will run @ 1200 rpm / 10 mph (3 hrs) to 6700 rpm / 121 mph (11.9 seconds) and all points in between. That is based on a Street/Dyno tune from The Vette Doctors. Not sure about all the debate on street vs. dyno or life under 5000 RPM I believe you need both to dial the car in. I guess from above, some tuners only tune above 5K How long will they be in business
So basically it will run @ 1200 rpm / 10 mph (3 hrs) to 6700 rpm / 121 mph (11.9 seconds) and all points in between. That is based on a Street/Dyno tune from The Vette Doctors.
Not sure about all the debate on street vs. dyno or life under 5000 RPM I believe you need both to dial the car in. I guess from above, some tuners only tune above 5K How long will they be in business I think You paid for a tune and expect that tune to work no matter what type of driving you are doing. Thus if you want to take the car out for a cruise Friday night (3000 rpm), head to Etown Saturday morning (6700 rpm) and then off to Pocono Raceway Sunday (3500-6300 rpm all day) that you do not have to go back to your tuner between each event.
Once you leave your tuner you should feel 100% confident that you can drive your car the way YOU WANT. If you call your tuner and they say oh you want to go road racing this weekend you should bring your car back I would question that tune because we all know that some people on this forum drive just as hard off the track.
BTW 11.9 who are you kidding - I was at the challenge this weekend
Last edited by Wicked Weasel; 11-20-2007 at 03:38 PM.
11-20-2007, 03:47 PM
#19
Le Mans Master
I can say this.... If you get only a WOT tune from a tuner, the factory PCM will use its fuel trims to rough tune the rest. The car will drive what seems to be normal but once its tuned correctly the difference is night and day. If the fuel ratios are corrected under part throttle use you can use more timing and make more power.
My 346" with a 254/260 cam was more than driveable on a day to day basis and it was because it was tuned from the top to the bottom.
My 346" with a 254/260 cam was more than driveable on a day to day basis and it was because it was tuned from the top to the bottom.
11-20-2007, 08:29 PM
#20
Burning Brakes
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[QUOTE=mowton;1562835681]I for one drive my car 100 miles to the track (usually little or no traffic in the am), swap street tires to drag radials (actually carry jack, impact gun etc), Race all day, then change back to street tires and start the long arduos 100 mile drive back to Long Island. As all in the area know, traffic through Staten Island, Varrazzano and Belt Parkway can be start and stop til you want to cut off your clutch leg
So basically it will run @ 1200 rpm / 10 mph (3 hrs) to 6700 rpm / 121 mph (11.9 seconds) and all points in between. That is based on a Street/Dyno tune from The Vette Doctors. Not sure about all the debate on street vs. dyno or life under 5000 RPM I believe you need both to dial the car in. I guess from above, some tuners only tune above 5K How long will they be in business [/QUOTE
How do you get the drag radials to the track?
So basically it will run @ 1200 rpm / 10 mph (3 hrs) to 6700 rpm / 121 mph (11.9 seconds) and all points in between. That is based on a Street/Dyno tune from The Vette Doctors.
Not sure about all the debate on street vs. dyno or life under 5000 RPM I believe you need both to dial the car in. I guess from above, some tuners only tune above 5K How long will they be in business [/QUOTEHow do you get the drag radials to the track?