MAF tune
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,356
Likes: 1
From: Chesapeake Va
The drawback to a SD tune, is you're left with MAF codes in the computer. So, if you're in an area where they test for emissions, thats not gonna fly. So, the answer is to tune both the VE and MAF so the car runs right, and it has no codes.
Anyone who tunes "professionally" should be tuning both the VE and MAF. Anything less and you're not getting your moneys worth. Its like paying for the combo meal, and not getting the fries.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 293
Likes: 0
From: Massachusetts
Its not really a HP level issue, but more like an application issue. Great big cams, FI, should be SD tuned IMO. But, I've tuned both big cam and FI cars both ways. I do believe every car thats modded beyond just simple bolt ons, should have the VE table dialed in, as well as the MAF, regardless of if its going to be a MAF tune or SD.
The drawback to a SD tune, is you're left with MAF codes in the computer. So, if you're in an area where they test for emissions, thats not gonna fly. So, the answer is to tune both the VE and MAF so the car runs right, and it has no codes.
Anyone who tunes "professionally" should be tuning both the VE and MAF. Anything less and you're not getting your moneys worth. Its like paying for the combo meal, and not getting the fries.
The drawback to a SD tune, is you're left with MAF codes in the computer. So, if you're in an area where they test for emissions, thats not gonna fly. So, the answer is to tune both the VE and MAF so the car runs right, and it has no codes.
Anyone who tunes "professionally" should be tuning both the VE and MAF. Anything less and you're not getting your moneys worth. Its like paying for the combo meal, and not getting the fries.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,356
Likes: 1
From: Chesapeake Va
How involved? Its pretty involved. Dont really know how to answer that. I tune both all the time. On pretty much everything. You can dial in a VE and the MAF in an afternoon, 3-4 hours, if you know what you're doing.
Hope that answers your question.
Hope that answers your question.
Intermediate
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
You should always do a SD (VE table ) tune prior to moving on the MAF. For two reasons, one if the MAF fails so you are not stuck on the side of the road, and two, the VE tables are used for some base calculations.
Depends on if you are tuning with a wideband or not. SD tunes usually take me about 4 hours to complete and should always be done prior to a MAF tune.
Depends on if you are tuning with a wideband or not. SD tunes usually take me about 4 hours to complete and should always be done prior to a MAF tune.
Former Vendor
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,331
Likes: 4
From: Jacksonville Florida
Its not really a HP level issue, but more like an application issue. Great big cams, FI, should be SD tuned IMO. But, I've tuned both big cam and FI cars both ways. I do believe every car thats modded beyond just simple bolt ons, should have the VE table dialed in, as well as the MAF, regardless of if its going to be a MAF tune or SD.
The drawback to a SD tune, is you're left with MAF codes in the computer. So, if you're in an area where they test for emissions, thats not gonna fly. So, the answer is to tune both the VE and MAF so the car runs right, and it has no codes.
Anyone who tunes "professionally" should be tuning both the VE and MAF. Anything less and you're not getting your moneys worth. Its like paying for the combo meal, and not getting the fries.
The drawback to a SD tune, is you're left with MAF codes in the computer. So, if you're in an area where they test for emissions, thats not gonna fly. So, the answer is to tune both the VE and MAF so the car runs right, and it has no codes.
Anyone who tunes "professionally" should be tuning both the VE and MAF. Anything less and you're not getting your moneys worth. Its like paying for the combo meal, and not getting the fries.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,356
Likes: 1
From: Chesapeake Va
You should always do a SD (VE table ) tune prior to moving on the MAF. For two reasons, one if the MAF fails so you are not stuck on the side of the road, and two, the VE tables are used for some base calculations.
Depends on if you are tuning with a wideband or not. SD tunes usually take me about 4 hours to complete and should always be done prior to a MAF tune.
Depends on if you are tuning with a wideband or not. SD tunes usually take me about 4 hours to complete and should always be done prior to a MAF tune.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 293
Likes: 0
From: Massachusetts
I'm a bit lost...I thought it was an either/or type decision...either you SD tune or MAF tune...sorry...I'm new to the tuning stuff
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Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,356
Likes: 1
From: Chesapeake Va
First you set it up in SD, and dial in your VE table. Thats your SD tune. Then you re-enable the MAF, and dial it in, until the fuel trims are in line with what they were in SD. Thats the way to tune the fueling.
Advanced
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
From: Charleston SC
eh, not quite...
MAF has an upper level of airflow (directly proportional to HP) so anything past that level, and you're forced to do pure SD.
there is no such thing as pure MAF mode tho. some people tried it, but it doesn't work too well at idle. normally we got a MAF and SD hybrid airmass model in effect, so you cant just tune MAF without making SD match it. the ECU doesnt use the dual model for redundancy but also for reality checks: if one of them shows a significantly different amount of air from the other, car goes into limp mode.
as for the which one should get done first...well, i'm not sure there is a right answer to such question. whichever one you can get right easier/more precisely should be the first one to do. I used to think VE needs to go first, but after I learned how complicated the temperature estimator can get, MAF seems a lot easier to get right.
MAF has an upper level of airflow (directly proportional to HP) so anything past that level, and you're forced to do pure SD.
there is no such thing as pure MAF mode tho. some people tried it, but it doesn't work too well at idle. normally we got a MAF and SD hybrid airmass model in effect, so you cant just tune MAF without making SD match it. the ECU doesnt use the dual model for redundancy but also for reality checks: if one of them shows a significantly different amount of air from the other, car goes into limp mode.
as for the which one should get done first...well, i'm not sure there is a right answer to such question. whichever one you can get right easier/more precisely should be the first one to do. I used to think VE needs to go first, but after I learned how complicated the temperature estimator can get, MAF seems a lot easier to get right.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,356
Likes: 1
From: Chesapeake Va
there is no such thing as pure MAF mode tho. some people tried it, but it doesn't work too well at idle. normally we got a MAF and SD hybrid airmass model in effect, so you cant just tune MAF without making SD match it. the ECU doesnt use the dual model for redundancy but also for reality checks: if one of them shows a significantly different amount of air from the other, car goes into limp mode.
as for the which one should get done first...well, i'm not sure there is a right answer to such question. whichever one you can get right easier/more precisely should be the first one to do. I used to think VE needs to go first, but after I learned how complicated the temperature estimator can get, MAF seems a lot easier to get right.
as for the which one should get done first...well, i'm not sure there is a right answer to such question. whichever one you can get right easier/more precisely should be the first one to do. I used to think VE needs to go first, but after I learned how complicated the temperature estimator can get, MAF seems a lot easier to get right.
Safety Car
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,275
Likes: 4
From: Vancouver WA
To do SD with boost, you would need a 2 bar MAP, but the MAF will only run on a 1 bar MAP...........right???
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,356
Likes: 1
From: Chesapeake Va
You can do 2 bar MAF tunes, even though most will tell you it doesnt work. I'm here to tell ya it does. I've done it many times.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 293
Likes: 0
From: Massachusetts
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 968
Likes: 12
From: Regina Sask
removed the Maf & installed a 2000 IAT sensor.
Take a look at the E38 & E67 PCMS, they don't even have a traditional VE table. Hp Tuners are working on a 2.5 bar OS for the E38 PCM.
Russ Kemp
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,356
Likes: 1
From: Chesapeake Va
And they are still SD tune-able. Either through bluecats conversion or EFIlives virtual VE.
