Best Temperature-stat
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 7,076
Likes: 26
From: Nevada and Florida
Originally Posted by leaftye
Instead of a thermostat, you could try to actually fix the problem. Sure it's more expensive to upgrade your radiator, install an oil cooler, and run an Evans water pump and coolant, but these things work. To make a low temp thermostat work, the fans must work harder, and inevitably break sooner.
Racer
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 333
Likes: 0
From: COWFORD FL
Originally Posted by nuke61
hahaha, touche' 
but I still don't see the connection between going from a 195 stat to a 185 (or so) stat and disabling or hacking ABS memory.Thanks for the link to the LT1 cooling and it's potential problems, but I had a '95 Z28 (LT1) and had first hand knowledge
I was going to try the propylene glycol for my car, but that stuff is really thick and does not absorb heat well...
???? Um, O.K.
http://www.evanscooling.com/index2.html
But it is quite viscous and you may need one of his water pumps, and he charges a lot for the fluid which of course you never have to replace, just top up once in a while... He has a demo truck that has like 400,000 miles on it and the coolant has never been changed, just topped up.
There is no connection between t-stats and hacking/removing the ABS module, that was just a trolling hook for all the people paranoid that their last 10 seconds of driving behaviour will be used against them in court for a civil or criminal trial.
[which has already been done in civil suits for negligence in driving causing death or injury.]
It takes a big man/woman to admit a mistake, we can have a lot fun here, since you seem smarter than the average bear...
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,561
Likes: 448
From: Atlanta metro Ga.
Originally Posted by Sandra Bigwoode
The Evans guy that invented reverse cooling for the SBC and then sued GM when they stole his idea also sells propylene glycol cooling fluid, it is totally waterless and like never boils even at zero pressure on the radiator cap.
http://www.evanscooling.com/index2.html
But it is quite viscous and you may need one of his water pumps, and he charges a lot for the fluid which of course you never have to replace, just top up once in a while... He has a demo truck that has like 400,000 miles on it and the coolant has never been changed, just topped up.
There is no connection between t-stats and hacking/removing the ABS module, that was just a trolling hook for all the people paranoid that their last 10 seconds of driving behaviour will be used against them in court for a civil or criminal trial.
[which has already been done in civil suits for negligence in driving causing death or injury.]
It takes a big man/woman to admit a mistake, we can have a lot fun here, since you seem smarter than the average bear...
http://www.evanscooling.com/index2.html
But it is quite viscous and you may need one of his water pumps, and he charges a lot for the fluid which of course you never have to replace, just top up once in a while... He has a demo truck that has like 400,000 miles on it and the coolant has never been changed, just topped up.
There is no connection between t-stats and hacking/removing the ABS module, that was just a trolling hook for all the people paranoid that their last 10 seconds of driving behaviour will be used against them in court for a civil or criminal trial.
[which has already been done in civil suits for negligence in driving causing death or injury.]
It takes a big man/woman to admit a mistake, we can have a lot fun here, since you seem smarter than the average bear...
That said, there can be no doubt that additional timing / HP can be felt by the seat of your pants from 180 degrees on the DIC as opposed to say, 200. It's just a simple fact. And just because you install a 160 t-stat does not mean your car will run that cool. My experience indicates the stock radiator efficiency is good for around 172 max (for temps of 70 degrees and above, that is).
Last edited by Dan_the_C5_Man; Jul 29, 2004 at 02:07 AM.
Racer
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 333
Likes: 0
From: COWFORD FL
Originally Posted by Dan_the_C5_Man
Honestly Sandra, it's pretty clear that you will receive less "slack" from fellow male CF members when it comes to technical issues. Most of us are a bit insecure when a female steps up with an opinion in a traditionally male dominated venue.
That said, there can be no doubt that additional timing / HP can be felt by the seat of your pants from 180 degrees on the DIC as opposed to say, 200. It's just a simple fact. And just because you install a 160 t-stat does not mean your car will run that cool. My experience indicates the stock radiator efficiency is good for around 172 max (for temps of 70 degrees and above, that is). :cheers:
That said, there can be no doubt that additional timing / HP can be felt by the seat of your pants from 180 degrees on the DIC as opposed to say, 200. It's just a simple fact. And just because you install a 160 t-stat does not mean your car will run that cool. My experience indicates the stock radiator efficiency is good for around 172 max (for temps of 70 degrees and above, that is). :cheers:
Perhaps I am not getting the seat of the panties effect everyone else is, since I run a stock t-stat, my cruising coolant temps run 190-192 F. with 50% Dex-Cool on hot humid days here in North Florida, I have a custom tune from Vortech when they fitted the blower.
I do not know what they did to fan turn-on temperatures, if anything.
Sitting in late July afternoon traffic, I have never seen coolant temperatures over 196 F. so it is probable the fans are turning on earlier than with a stock PCM tune. I can't tell if the fans are on or off by listening to them with engine running.
I always run 93 octane fuel, and frequently top it up with 30% 117 AKI Xylene when I feel like trashing a few rice rockets, or impudent M3's.
EfiLive on my laptop does not show any knock retard while running hard, so I am still unclear about why 160 F. t-stats make more power by tricking the PCM into running more ignition advance, all the while losing lots more heat into the coolant.
The difference between running at 160 F. and 192 F. is 32 F., not a trivial difference in caloric energy removed, given the specific heat of the 50% of water in the coolant...
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,627
Likes: 143
From: Goodyear Az
I always run 93 octane fuel, and frequently top it up with 30% 117 AKI Xylene [snip] EfiLive on my laptop does not show any knock retard while running hard, so I am still unclear about why 160 F. t-stats make more power by tricking the PCM into running more ignition advance, all the while losing lots more heat into the coolant.
I think what you're missing is that there are several ways to help prevent detonation and maximize spark advance. You can increase octane, decrease air and water temperature, switch to colder plugs, use water or alky injection.
Do you also think it's a bad idea to use colder plugs of 1 step or even 2 steps? Isn't it true that most supercharger and turbo charger installs recommend colder plugs? Colder plugs remove more heat from the cylinder and reject it as waste heat. Why would anyone want to do that, since from the simplistic view of a motor as nothing more than a Carnot cycle heat engine, you reduce efficiency and lose power? The answer is that you simply cannot look at an internal combustion motor as nothing more than a heat engine.
I think what you're missing is that there are several ways to help prevent detonation and maximize spark advance. You can increase octane, decrease air and water temperature, switch to colder plugs, use water or alky injection.
Do you also think it's a bad idea to use colder plugs of 1 step or even 2 steps? Isn't it true that most supercharger and turbo charger installs recommend colder plugs? Colder plugs remove more heat from the cylinder and reject it as waste heat. Why would anyone want to do that, since from the simplistic view of a motor as nothing more than a Carnot cycle heat engine, you reduce efficiency and lose power? The answer is that you simply cannot look at an internal combustion motor as nothing more than a heat engine.
Racer
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 333
Likes: 0
From: COWFORD FL
Originally Posted by nuke61
I always run 93 octane fuel, and frequently top it up with 30% 117 AKI Xylene [snip] EfiLive on my laptop does not show any knock retard while running hard, so I am still unclear about why 160 F. t-stats make more power by tricking the PCM into running more ignition advance, all the while losing lots more heat into the coolant.
I think what you're missing is that there are several ways to help prevent detonation and maximize spark advance. You can increase octane, decrease air and water temperature, switch to colder plugs, use water or alky injection.
Do you also think it's a bad idea to use colder plugs of 1 step or even 2 steps? Isn't it true that most supercharger and turbo charger installs recommend colder plugs? Colder plugs remove more heat from the cylinder and reject it as waste heat. Why would anyone want to do that, since from the simplistic view of a motor as nothing more than a Carnot cycle heat engine, you reduce efficiency and lose power? The answer is that you simply cannot look at an internal combustion motor as nothing more than a heat engine.
I think what you're missing is that there are several ways to help prevent detonation and maximize spark advance. You can increase octane, decrease air and water temperature, switch to colder plugs, use water or alky injection.
Do you also think it's a bad idea to use colder plugs of 1 step or even 2 steps? Isn't it true that most supercharger and turbo charger installs recommend colder plugs? Colder plugs remove more heat from the cylinder and reject it as waste heat. Why would anyone want to do that, since from the simplistic view of a motor as nothing more than a Carnot cycle heat engine, you reduce efficiency and lose power? The answer is that you simply cannot look at an internal combustion motor as nothing more than a heat engine.
You are wrong to say that the ICE motor is not in fact a heat engine that follows the Carnot cycle, however imperfectly, it is and does.
I am completely shocked that you do not realize that.
Colder plugs may well reject heat from the combustion chambers and then insert the caloric energy back into the plug wires adibatically.
But, AND THIS IS A BIG BUT: Have you considered the effect of freeze plugs already inserted into the engine block at the factory?
It is well known by experts that freezing plugs absorb enormous amounts of heat from the block and prevent water/coolant explosions, and then expel the excess pressure and coolant on your driveway when they reach their ultimate limits.
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 4,979
Likes: 5
From: San Diego, CA "leaf" "tee" "e"
Originally Posted by BHP
IME, it does no good to have a hi-cap radiator and the stock t-stat. I am installing the SLP 160* t-stat today and will have my fans set in the 185* range. Also installing a "Big Mouth" air dam. I will post my findings but hope to be cool in the hot 110* heat.
This weekend I should be installing a big radiator with integrated oil cooler, and diy 170 degree thermostat. My fans are already programmed to turn on earlier and I use Royal Purple's version of Water Wetter. When Eric gets that Big Mouth air dam shipped, I'll give that a shot too.
The Evans water pump is $500 on their website, so I'm going to wait and see if the LS2 water pump is compatible with the LS1.
If my car still doesn't run cool enough, I'll get the ACP carbon fiber C5-R/World Challenge vented hood.
Eugene
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 7,076
Likes: 26
From: Nevada and Florida
Originally Posted by leaftye
The Evans water pump is $500 on their website, so I'm going to wait and see if the LS2 water pump is compatible with the LS1.
If my car still doesn't run cool enough, I'll get the ACP carbon fiber C5-R/World Challenge vented hood.
Eugene
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Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 4,979
Likes: 5
From: San Diego, CA "leaf" "tee" "e"
Originally Posted by BHP
The '04s have the LS2 water pump and t-stat.
Thanks! That's good and bad news. Good that the LS2 water pump fits, but bad that they're using the bigger more expensive '04 thermostat.
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,627
Likes: 143
From: Goodyear Az
You are wrong to say that the ICE motor is not in fact a heat engine that follows the Carnot cycle, however imperfectly, it is and does.
That's correct, IF I said that, but that's not what I said. What I *did* say was that you cannot view it as nothing more than a Carnot cycle heat engine. In the real world we have things like detonation and pre-ignition to worry about. Carnot cycles do not deal with timing advance and ping. IOW, a modern engine does have a Carnot cycle, of course, but that's not ALL it is; therefore, you cannot think ONLY of heat efficiency.
Colder plugs may well reject heat from the combustion chambers and then insert the caloric energy back into the plug wires adibatically.
Colder plugs transfer heat from the combustion chamber to the head, where the heat is sent off to the radiator as waste. You are rejecting more heat (vs. a hotter plug) to waste. Yet this is what is often desired to gain MORE horsepower.
It is well known by experts that freezing plugs absorb enormous amounts of heat from the block and prevent water/coolant explosions, and then expel the excess pressure and coolant on your driveway when they reach their ultimate limits.
"Freeze" plugs are improperly named. They are nothing more than casting holes for block casting equipment. Although you might get lucky and they *might* prevent freeze cracking of a block, that is not their design purpose. Additionally, they are not designed for pressure protection, but you might get lucky. Freeze protection is provided by the properly named "anti-freeze" and pressure protection is provided by the radiator pressure-cap.
Scroll to the bottom of the following page and read about Welch (aka, Freeze) plugs:
http://www.sallee-chevrolet.com/Engi...lockparts.html
That's correct, IF I said that, but that's not what I said. What I *did* say was that you cannot view it as nothing more than a Carnot cycle heat engine. In the real world we have things like detonation and pre-ignition to worry about. Carnot cycles do not deal with timing advance and ping. IOW, a modern engine does have a Carnot cycle, of course, but that's not ALL it is; therefore, you cannot think ONLY of heat efficiency.
Colder plugs may well reject heat from the combustion chambers and then insert the caloric energy back into the plug wires adibatically.
Colder plugs transfer heat from the combustion chamber to the head, where the heat is sent off to the radiator as waste. You are rejecting more heat (vs. a hotter plug) to waste. Yet this is what is often desired to gain MORE horsepower.
It is well known by experts that freezing plugs absorb enormous amounts of heat from the block and prevent water/coolant explosions, and then expel the excess pressure and coolant on your driveway when they reach their ultimate limits.
"Freeze" plugs are improperly named. They are nothing more than casting holes for block casting equipment. Although you might get lucky and they *might* prevent freeze cracking of a block, that is not their design purpose. Additionally, they are not designed for pressure protection, but you might get lucky. Freeze protection is provided by the properly named "anti-freeze" and pressure protection is provided by the radiator pressure-cap.
Scroll to the bottom of the following page and read about Welch (aka, Freeze) plugs:
http://www.sallee-chevrolet.com/Engi...lockparts.html
Last edited by nuke61; Jul 30, 2004 at 09:59 AM.
Pro
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 653
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by Sandra Bigwoode
It is well known by experts that freezing plugs absorb enormous amounts of heat from the block and prevent water/coolant explosions, and then expel the excess pressure and coolant on your driveway when they reach their ultimate limits.
Freeze plugs are there to blow out in the event the liquid in the block's cooling jackets freezes, preventing (not always successfully in my experience) a cracked block.
If your posts weren't so darn funny, they'd have no value at all.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 7,076
Likes: 26
From: Nevada and Florida
Originally Posted by leaftye
Thanks! That's good and bad news. but bad that they're using the bigger more expensive '04 thermostat.
The '04 t-stat is $20. No housing needed, just drops in. SLP is the only maker. Don't buy the Vinci.
Racer
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 333
Likes: 0
From: COWFORD FL
Originally Posted by crainholio
First it was your thing about "You'll be sad to learn that LS1 engines are reverse-flow cooled" or whatever, now you've invented a whole new concept of "freezing plugs".
Freeze plugs are there to blow out in the event the liquid in the block's cooling jackets freezes, preventing (not always successfully in my experience) a cracked block.
If your posts weren't so darn funny, they'd have no value at all. :jester
Freeze plugs are there to blow out in the event the liquid in the block's cooling jackets freezes, preventing (not always successfully in my experience) a cracked block.
If your posts weren't so darn funny, they'd have no value at all. :jester
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,627
Likes: 143
From: Goodyear Az
Sandra, you seem to be stuck on the "If I can't understand how it works, then it cannot work" premise. First it's the fuel additive that you swear cannot work despite all the first hand testimony that it does work, with dyno and knock retard numbers as evidence, and now it's lower than GM prescribed thermostats.
Maybe we should call you Sandra Bighead instead... "If I don't understand how it works, then it can't possibly be true."
BTW, got any comment about colder than stock plugs? It might be good for comic releif
Maybe we should call you Sandra Bighead instead... "If I don't understand how it works, then it can't possibly be true."
BTW, got any comment about colder than stock plugs? It might be good for comic releif
Racer
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 338
Likes: 0
From: Lancaster Ohio
Originally Posted by nuke61
Sandra, you seem to be stuck on the "If I can't understand how it works, then it cannot work" premise. First it's the fuel additive that you swear cannot work despite all the first hand testimony that it does work, with dyno and knock retard numbers as evidence, and now it's lower than GM prescribed thermostats.
Maybe we should call you Sandra Bighead instead... "If I don't understand how it works, then it can't possibly be true."
BTW, got any comment about colder than stock plugs? It might be good for comic releif
Maybe we should call you Sandra Bighead instead... "If I don't understand how it works, then it can't possibly be true."
BTW, got any comment about colder than stock plugs? It might be good for comic releif
Racer
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 333
Likes: 0
From: COWFORD FL
Originally Posted by nuke61
Sandra, you seem to be stuck on the "If I can't understand how it works, then it cannot work" premise. First it's the fuel additive that you swear cannot work despite all the first hand testimony that it does work, with dyno and knock retard numbers as evidence, and now it's lower than GM prescribed thermostats.
Maybe we should call you Sandra Bighead instead... "If I don't understand how it works, then it can't possibly be true."
BTW, got any comment about colder than stock plugs? It might be good for comic releif :lol:
Maybe we should call you Sandra Bighead instead... "If I don't understand how it works, then it can't possibly be true."
BTW, got any comment about colder than stock plugs? It might be good for comic releif :lol:
While cold plugs do transfer extra heat from the nose to the plug body, the head and then the coolant system, that is not their primary function.
"Do you also think it's a bad idea to use colder plugs of 1 step or even 2 steps? Isn't it true that most supercharger and turbo charger installs recommend colder plugs? Colder plugs remove more heat from the cylinder and reject it as waste heat. Why would anyone want to do that, since from the simplistic view of a motor as nothing more than a Carnot cycle heat engine, you reduce efficiency and lose power? The answer is that you simply cannot look at an internal combustion motor as nothing more than a heat engine."
The cold plug simply moves more heat to survive in a high temp combustion chamber, turbo or s/c. It is not a way to cool the engine block and heads. The amount of heat it transfers is a small amount compared to the radiator and fans.
The spark plug heat range is simply a red herring so you can avoid discussing retained heat and power in an ICE and how using low coolant temps can make more power, which you must know cannot be true.
PS: Please explain the effective octane number of Torco again, 1 quart increases octane in 10 gallons by how much...?
Post one of your fancy equations to show that it is 'possible', maybe I can understand then?
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,627
Likes: 143
From: Goodyear Az
Of course the primary purpose of colder plugs is not to remove heat, but that's how it works. The purpose is to eliminate detonation. That's also the purpose of reduced coolant temperatures.
PS: Please explain the effective octane number of Torco again, 1 quart increases octane in 10 gallons by how much...?
If you still want to believe that Torco doesn't work, even with all the first hand testimony that it does (empirical data from dyno runs and real world ping/knock elimination) that's your call.
The enormous amount of first hand testimony that it DOES work is good enough for me. I don't claim that it cannot work simply because I don't understand how it does.
Post one of your fancy equations to show that it is 'possible', maybe I can understand then?
Again, this is from empirical evidence and based on reducing detonation or pinging. If you run high enough octane all the time, then reducing coolant temperatures will reduce thermal efficiency (horsepower) of the motor. The ONLY benefit of reducing coolant temperatures is from enabling the use of maximum spark timing. If you already get max spark timing, then lowering coolant temperature is not productive.
PS: Please explain the effective octane number of Torco again, 1 quart increases octane in 10 gallons by how much...?
If you still want to believe that Torco doesn't work, even with all the first hand testimony that it does (empirical data from dyno runs and real world ping/knock elimination) that's your call.
The enormous amount of first hand testimony that it DOES work is good enough for me. I don't claim that it cannot work simply because I don't understand how it does.
Post one of your fancy equations to show that it is 'possible', maybe I can understand then?
Again, this is from empirical evidence and based on reducing detonation or pinging. If you run high enough octane all the time, then reducing coolant temperatures will reduce thermal efficiency (horsepower) of the motor. The ONLY benefit of reducing coolant temperatures is from enabling the use of maximum spark timing. If you already get max spark timing, then lowering coolant temperature is not productive.
Racer
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 333
Likes: 0
From: COWFORD FL
Originally Posted by nuke61
Of course the primary purpose of colder plugs is not to remove heat, but that's how it works. The purpose is to eliminate detonation. That's also the purpose of reduced coolant temperatures.
PS: Please explain the effective octane number of Torco again, 1 quart increases octane in 10 gallons by how much...?
If you still want to believe that Torco doesn't work, even with all the first hand testimony that it does (empirical data from dyno runs and real world ping/knock elimination) that's your call.
The enormous amount of first hand testimony that it DOES work is good enough for me. I don't claim that it cannot work simply because I don't understand how it does.
Post one of your fancy equations to show that it is 'possible', maybe I can understand then?
Again, this is from empirical evidence and based on reducing detonation or pinging. If you run high enough octane all the time, then reducing coolant temperatures will reduce thermal efficiency (horsepower) of the motor. The ONLY benefit of reducing coolant temperatures is from enabling the use of maximum spark timing. If you already get max spark timing, then lowering coolant temperature is not productive.
PS: Please explain the effective octane number of Torco again, 1 quart increases octane in 10 gallons by how much...?
If you still want to believe that Torco doesn't work, even with all the first hand testimony that it does (empirical data from dyno runs and real world ping/knock elimination) that's your call.
The enormous amount of first hand testimony that it DOES work is good enough for me. I don't claim that it cannot work simply because I don't understand how it does.
Post one of your fancy equations to show that it is 'possible', maybe I can understand then?
Again, this is from empirical evidence and based on reducing detonation or pinging. If you run high enough octane all the time, then reducing coolant temperatures will reduce thermal efficiency (horsepower) of the motor. The ONLY benefit of reducing coolant temperatures is from enabling the use of maximum spark timing. If you already get max spark timing, then lowering coolant temperature is not productive.
the enormous amount of first hand testimony is also known as anecdotal; which is to say totally worthless.
i have maximum spark advance and optimum AFR from the Vortech plant tune, I run 30-45% 117 Xylene when I want to race cars on the street...
I see no reason to reduce coolant temps from 192 F., nor did Vortech.
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,627
Likes: 143
From: Goodyear Az
the enormous amount of first hand testimony is also known as anecdotal; which is to say totally worthless.
That's why you collect information, do the best you can to discern what works, and then try it yourself. Except that you don't seem to try anything for yourself. You could try the Torco with 93 octane gas as see if it actually works as many people have claimed. You could try a cooler thermostat with 93 octane gas and see if it works, but you don't. Instead, you sit on the sidelines and say that it can't possibly work because you don't understand why or how it could.
I see no reason to reduce coolant temps from 192 F., nor did Vortech.
If you're running 93 + octane booster, of course not. However, you suspect (and your coolant tempertures essentially confirm) that they did reprogram your fan turn-on temperatures... that means that your motor is running cooler than it would from the factory.
Why don't you get them reprogrammed to keep your coolant temperature at 200+ degrees? Less heat removed == more horsepower, right?
That's why you collect information, do the best you can to discern what works, and then try it yourself. Except that you don't seem to try anything for yourself. You could try the Torco with 93 octane gas as see if it actually works as many people have claimed. You could try a cooler thermostat with 93 octane gas and see if it works, but you don't. Instead, you sit on the sidelines and say that it can't possibly work because you don't understand why or how it could.
I see no reason to reduce coolant temps from 192 F., nor did Vortech.
If you're running 93 + octane booster, of course not. However, you suspect (and your coolant tempertures essentially confirm) that they did reprogram your fan turn-on temperatures... that means that your motor is running cooler than it would from the factory.
Why don't you get them reprogrammed to keep your coolant temperature at 200+ degrees? Less heat removed == more horsepower, right?
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,627
Likes: 143
From: Goodyear Az
However, running hot above 200 F. idling in traffic does not make any real power and can harm the engine.
What's the basis for that opinion, particularly in light of the fact that GM says temperatures above 200F are O.K. ??
If it's just a heat engine, less heat out should equal more power, and since a stock C5/Z06 goes well above 200F idling on a hot day, GM programmed it that way.
BTW, you also said "Freeway cruise [70-80 mph] normally runs at 190-194 F., averaging at 192 F. with the radiator clear and clean from leaves and plastic bags."
That seems odd, considering the stock thermostat is a 195F unit, per this article: http://www.idavette.net/hib/ls1c.html
What's the basis for that opinion, particularly in light of the fact that GM says temperatures above 200F are O.K. ??
If it's just a heat engine, less heat out should equal more power, and since a stock C5/Z06 goes well above 200F idling on a hot day, GM programmed it that way.
BTW, you also said "Freeway cruise [70-80 mph] normally runs at 190-194 F., averaging at 192 F. with the radiator clear and clean from leaves and plastic bags."
That seems odd, considering the stock thermostat is a 195F unit, per this article: http://www.idavette.net/hib/ls1c.html
Last edited by nuke61; Aug 4, 2004 at 07:13 PM.