Hello all,
Last weekend a set of dynatech supermaxx headers were installed on my 2000 coupe. Prior mods include magnaflow catback exhaust with an x-pipe and a blackwing. This past december I had my vette tuned with only the exhaust and intake. My baseline dyno was around 288 rwhp and 307rwtq. Following the tune I dynoed at 317rwhp and 317rwtq. I was very pleased at the time with these gains (almost thirty horses with only my basic mods)!! The dyno sheet of that day is posted below.



Just today I returned to the same tuner shop after the installation of my dynatech headers (East Side Performance in Wallingford, CT). And I was incredibly dissapointed at the results. I baselined at 317rwhp and about 324rwtq. So basically, off the bat I didnt gain anything with the headers. The AFR was running quite rich at 11.6. That was leaned out and on the seventh and final pass I dynoed at 325rwhp and 334rwtq with an AFR of 12.8. The dyno sheet is posted below for today.

I was shocked that I only gained 9rwhp and 17rwtq considering I was expecting at least something close to the manufacturer's claims of 34-40hp. Basically, the shop told me that it is very common for people to come to them with headers and gain minimal power or actually lose power despite manufacturer's claims. He mentioned that the stock exhaust system is very good and the gains to be seen by these bolts on is minimal at best. However, if you crack into the engine and install an aftermarket cam or heads, this is the scenario when these bolt ons will become crucial. So it seems at though the gains I saw from the first tune were the result of editing out things like torque management and changing the timing. Hence, from my experiences, I feel as though the manufacturer's claims of such incredible hp are faulty and very subjective to other details relating to the tune itself rather than the headers. My basic impression is that bolts on are not all the valuable in and of themselves, but only valuable in combination with real engine mods such as heads, cam, forced induction. Forum member "connecticut" also witnessed the tune and spoke with the tuner. He installed my headers and knows much more about cars than myself, so I am sure he can add his comments past mine.

Brian

 

Those look like average peak gains to me, however what are your torque curves in the low/midrange rpm? That is where lt's usually outshine the stock manifolds. Anyway you now have a great exhaust system to support a bigger cam.

 

I've recently read a few posts here about people getting a tune & gaining some HP &TQ with basic boltons or just stock cars. I'm still torn on the whole "header" thing on an otherwise stock motor. I have qoutes on a supermaxx install & gears, I know i'm going to go with the gears & T/C but headers are questionable until I do H/C. Sorry to hear U R dissappointed.

 

I agree. I am really convinced that unless you are going to eventually go with a heads and cam package the headers are not worth it. You would be better off spending your cash on a higher stall torque converter and gears. Now I feel almost obligated to get a new cam just to feel that my headers were worth it.

 

I can honestly say that with my TPIS I gained 25 at the wheels from stock...picked up another 30 with the cam...

 

Was the car tuned prior to the installation of the headers? If not, much of the gains that you saw may not be attributed to the headers themselves, but other aspects of the tune. This is a subject that has not been really debated in the header wars.

The information the shop gave me is not specific to the dynatech headers. The tuner mentioned that he has had many cases of individuals coming in with headers such as SLP and Kooks, claiming big hp gains, and actually losing hp or gaining minimal amounts. The topic of this thread was not to debate which headers are better but how effective headers alone actually can be without modding the engine itself. I think manufacturer claims are BS.

From the beginnings of my modding, which I dynoed at 288, I gained 37rwhp and 27rwtq ---> intake, headers, magnaflows, and tune. which isnt bad.

 

I had a similar experience with the Dynatech headers as you know. Research is so important when one is considering headers.

 

I will also be able to add to this post. I installed Stainless Works Lt 1 3/4 primaries,random tech high flow cat's, 3" X pipe, and Stainless works 3" mufflers on my stock 02 Z06 late last summer. Last Sunday I installed my VARARAM.

I will have an opportunity to get a base line dyno pull some road time and a few tuning dyno pulls on the 31st of March.

I will add my results to this post.

Bill Curlee

 

I recently had my car in for a dyno after the header install. I do agree that the hp gains claimed are incredible. I pulled 303 rwhp last year on the dyno. After my LG install I pulled 322 without a tune. I believe I should see an increase after my tune of anywhere from 10-15. It is always interesting to see how our cars can be similar, but get way different #'s. It also makes a difference what type of dyno machine you are using, from what I have been told.

 

I'm sorry your disapointed. My very first thought was that the horsepower #'s after the Blackwing and tune seemed like they could be a little optimistic. Starting from 288 horses and gaining 30 with the Blackwing being the only "real" powermaker in my opinion, seems like a little much to me. I had mine dyno'd, with just the Blackwing and Dynatech header system, including Borla Stingers, and NO tune at LPE. My #'s were 309rwhp/329rwtq. I figure with a half decent tune, I would have gotten about what you did. I never thought of the Stingers I had when they got the above #'s as a power maker! Just my .02 worth.

P.S. IMHO, if you put power producing mods on a car, all things being as equal as you can expect they will produce the same power on the same base engine. In other words, If we had the same mods on the same model car, and the rest being relatively equal, I firmly believe we would have very close to the same performance, irregardless of what any dyno says! Dyno #'s aren't performance. The way I see it, is that you gained 37rwhp/27rwtq with JUST a Blackwing and Headers and Tune, IMHO.

 

Thats too bad. You are the second person, CNB was the other, I have seen end up with disappointing results following the Dynatechs.

Some are attributing this to the 2 1/2 in x pipe in the dynatech system.

This may be what happened in your case. It would have been interesting to see, what your results would have been had you been running a system with a 3 inch X pipe like KOOKS or LGs.

I think the shop may be trying to sell you a heads and cam install. I have never heard of editing out torque management increasing anyone's peak horsepower. TM is there to prevent the breakage of driveline parts on sudden acceleration.

I have KOOKS and I haven't had torque management since long before their install. I was previously running the Predator performance tune.
I picked up 25 RWHP/ 30 RWTQ with my KOOKS and 3 in x pipe and high flow cats. WIth no tuning.

Then I had the car tuned with the KOOKS and picked up another 2-3 tenths in the quarter mile.

 

nope...I had a blackwing and borla stingers prior to header install...NO TUNING until after the cam install but I did have it dynoed previously so I know what I gained

 

There are other members on the forum who experienced similar results and some even posted in my thread.

 

What ever happened to that thread CNB? The search function of this forum is a joke.

 

That sounds about right. I dyno'd 333hp/345tq with the following mods and a tune('04 A4):

-Vararam
-Supermax header system
-Borla Stingers
-Patriot 5.3 heads

The tune only picked up 3 hp, but picked up 15tq.

I didn't get a baseline dyno with the stock engine, but he showed me a typical A4 dyno and the numbers were 289hp/292tq.

So if I take those stock numbers as a base, then I picked up 44rwhp and 53rwtq.

I have been told that when I install the cam, I'll see high numbers because that's when the heads and headers will really show their strengths.

 

I NEVER figured MY Stingers would make power gains. I wanted them for looks and sound. With that in mind, in my opinion, He gained 37rwhp/27rwtq with just Blackwing/Headers/Tune. Would another set of headers make him more? I would say alot of the answer to that question would be in the tuner shop and dyno!

 

I'm not touching that one

Something definitely does not sound right about that. I am at 323.8hp/339.6tq with the stock heads, the mods in my signature, and no tune after the KOOKS headers. Thats only 9rwhp/ 5rwtq lower than your car with Patriot 5.3 heads.

And I'm running 3.42s and a 2600 stall to your 3.15s and stock converter.

 

I picked up 2 to 3 MPH in the 1/4 with the addition of Dynatech headers on my FRC. Bone stock motor. Just a Blackwing and a catback. Dyno numbers don't mean sh.t. Proof of power is had at the track.

Mark

 

Don't forget to mention the other goodies you have added since then

 

You had an inflated baseline........ period. There is no reason why those headers produce power on everyone else's car except two. And both cars had inflated baseline numbers for the bolt on's they had.