VATS System/Key read Problem. Very strange
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 55,394
Likes: 1
VATS System/Key read Problem. Very strange
I bought a blank key from ecklers a few months ago. They read a frequency value from my master key and programmed that same value into the new blank's resistor.
On Sat I finally got around to making a duplicate. The Locksmith, just to make sure, reads the frequency value from my master. He gets nothing. He then reads the frequency value from the blank and gets a value. He duplicates the key. I go out to my vette and try the new key. She turns but nothing. I try the master key and again, she doesnt start! Uh oh. But then I figure the VATS is resetting itsef because of a bad value on the new key. After a few minutes, I try again and the master now key starts the car (whew!!!)
I go back in and the locksmoth still canot obtain any value form the Master key's resistor? How do I now make a copy? And why is the car even starting in the first place?
This is truly bizarre
On Sat I finally got around to making a duplicate. The Locksmith, just to make sure, reads the frequency value from my master. He gets nothing. He then reads the frequency value from the blank and gets a value. He duplicates the key. I go out to my vette and try the new key. She turns but nothing. I try the master key and again, she doesnt start! Uh oh. But then I figure the VATS is resetting itsef because of a bad value on the new key. After a few minutes, I try again and the master now key starts the car (whew!!!)
I go back in and the locksmoth still canot obtain any value form the Master key's resistor? How do I now make a copy? And why is the car even starting in the first place?
This is truly bizarre
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,119
Likes: 0
From: Spring Branch Texas
Originally Posted by MARK's_C5TT
I bought a blank key from ecklers a few months ago. They read a frequency value from my master key and programmed that same value into the new blank's resistor.
On Sat I finally got around to making a duplicate. The Locksmith, just to make sure, reads the frequency value from my master. He gets nothing. He then reads the frequency value from the blank and gets a value. He duplicates the key. I go out to my vette and try the new key. She turns but nothing. I try the master key and again, she doesnt start! Uh oh. But then I figure the VATS is resetting itsef because of a bad value on the new key. After a few minutes, I try again and the master now key starts the car (whew!!!)
I go back in and the locksmoth still canot obtain any value form the Master key's resistor? How do I now make a copy? And why is the car even starting in the first place?
This is truly bizarre
On Sat I finally got around to making a duplicate. The Locksmith, just to make sure, reads the frequency value from my master. He gets nothing. He then reads the frequency value from the blank and gets a value. He duplicates the key. I go out to my vette and try the new key. She turns but nothing. I try the master key and again, she doesnt start! Uh oh. But then I figure the VATS is resetting itsef because of a bad value on the new key. After a few minutes, I try again and the master now key starts the car (whew!!!)
I go back in and the locksmoth still canot obtain any value form the Master key's resistor? How do I now make a copy? And why is the car even starting in the first place?
This is truly bizarre
Here are the key # and related resistance:
Key # Ohms
1 = 392
2 = 523
3 = 681
4 = 887
5 = 1130
6 = 1470
7 = 1870
8 = 2370
9 = 3010
10 = 3470
11 = 4750
12 = 6040
13 = 7500
14 = 9530
15 = 11800
Hope this helps!
Racer
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 342
Likes: 0
From: Kearney NE
Originally Posted by MARK's_C5TT
I bought a blank key from ecklers a few months ago. They read a frequency value from my master key and programmed that same value into the new blank's resistor.
On Sat I finally got around to making a duplicate. The Locksmith, just to make sure, reads the frequency value from my master. He gets nothing. He then reads the frequency value from the blank and gets a value. He duplicates the key. I go out to my vette and try the new key. She turns but nothing. I try the master key and again, she doesnt start! Uh oh. But then I figure the VATS is resetting itsef because of a bad value on the new key. After a few minutes, I try again and the master now key starts the car (whew!!!)
I go back in and the locksmoth still canot obtain any value form the Master key's resistor? How do I now make a copy? And why is the car even starting in the first place?
This is truly bizarre
On Sat I finally got around to making a duplicate. The Locksmith, just to make sure, reads the frequency value from my master. He gets nothing. He then reads the frequency value from the blank and gets a value. He duplicates the key. I go out to my vette and try the new key. She turns but nothing. I try the master key and again, she doesnt start! Uh oh. But then I figure the VATS is resetting itsef because of a bad value on the new key. After a few minutes, I try again and the master now key starts the car (whew!!!)
I go back in and the locksmoth still canot obtain any value form the Master key's resistor? How do I now make a copy? And why is the car even starting in the first place?
This is truly bizarre
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 55,394
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by BlackArrow
VATS blanks are not programed to match the original key......they are made with a chip with a predetermined value. All the retailer does is pick from a list of key blanks and chooes the one that matches the original key. As far as I know, the VATS module can not reset itself as it is made to read only one resisor value......the original Key that came from the factory has the chip that matches this value which is built into the VATS module.
This is the way the VATS in the C5's work. The VATS system inside the car will lock the car if an incorrect resistor chip value on a key is inserted. Thats why the original key would not work either because i did not give the car enough time to reset - I tried the master immediately after the copy failed.
This is what I mean by VATS Resetting itself. Once teh car's modulke rest itself, the original key worked. I tried te exact same thing when I got home. I tried te duplicate - the car wudl not tart. I immediatley tried te original, again car would nto start. I waited 5 mins before trying the original and then the car started.
What perplexes me is the locksmith, using the same reader that reads the frequency of the copy could not get anyhthing out of the original.
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 55,394
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by RCK1999
I think you have been given some incorrect information. The resistor embedded in the key is not "programmable". It is set and established. Your car's ignition cylinder is programmed to read the specific resistance across the chip on your key and start the car if the reading is within 10% of the pre-set resistance requirement. The master key that you have (that starts the car) has a resistance reading. It can be read with any digital volt-meter. If the locksmith can't read the resistance, go see another locksmith! When ordering a key, you need to give them a "key #". The chart below gives you the key # that corrosponds the the resistance of the key chip. It takes the car a second to re-set itself after you try a key that doesn't match its programming.
Here are the key # and related resistance:
Key # Ohms
1 = 392
2 = 523
3 = 681
4 = 887
5 = 1130
6 = 1470
7 = 1870
8 = 2370
9 = 3010
10 = 3470
11 = 4750
12 = 6040
13 = 7500
14 = 9530
15 = 11800
Hope this helps!
Here are the key # and related resistance:
Key # Ohms
1 = 392
2 = 523
3 = 681
4 = 887
5 = 1130
6 = 1470
7 = 1870
8 = 2370
9 = 3010
10 = 3470
11 = 4750
12 = 6040
13 = 7500
14 = 9530
15 = 11800
Hope this helps!
You misunderstood what I was saying or I failed to explain myself.
Ecklers gave me a blank key whos resistor falls within the same frequency category as my original key (Lets say category 9).
Ecklers obviously had to use a reader to acquire that frequency from the original key before giving me one of the 15 blanks.
But when I duplicated the key (not the chip frquency, but the key itself) just 2 days ago, the new key did not start the engine. My only guess is Ecklers gave me the wrong key. However, the current problem that I have is the locksmith's reader could not read the frequency range from the original. His reader, however, was able to read the Ecklers blank (again, lets say 3.250 for arguments sake)
So he couldnt even give me a blank corresponding to the master because his reader could not read the master.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,119
Likes: 0
From: Spring Branch Texas
Originally Posted by MARK's_C5TT
You misunderstood what I was saying or I failed to explain myself.
Ecklers gave me a blank key whos resistor falls within the same frequency category as my original key (Lets say category 9).
Ecklers obviously had to use a reader to acquire that frequency from the original key before giving me one of the 15 blanks.
But when I duplicated the key (not the chip frquency, but the key itself) just 2 days ago, the new key did not start the engine. My only guess is Ecklers gave me the wrong key. However, the current problem that I have is the locksmith's reader could not read the frequency range from the original. His reader, however, was able to read the Ecklers blank (again, lets say 3.250 for arguments sake)
So he couldnt even give me a blank corresponding to the master because his reader could not read the master.
Ecklers gave me a blank key whos resistor falls within the same frequency category as my original key (Lets say category 9).
Ecklers obviously had to use a reader to acquire that frequency from the original key before giving me one of the 15 blanks.
But when I duplicated the key (not the chip frquency, but the key itself) just 2 days ago, the new key did not start the engine. My only guess is Ecklers gave me the wrong key. However, the current problem that I have is the locksmith's reader could not read the frequency range from the original. His reader, however, was able to read the Ecklers blank (again, lets say 3.250 for arguments sake)
So he couldnt even give me a blank corresponding to the master because his reader could not read the master.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 41,043
Likes: 9,807
From: Charlotte, NC (formerly Endicott, NY)
Originally Posted by RCK1999
Somebody is either giving you wrong information or doesn't know what they are doing. It's obvious that your master key VAT # does not match the replacement key VAT #. Find a good locksmith that knows what they are doing and can properly read a key (its not brain surgery). Even a dealer would be able to do this, but I will NEVER suggest someone take their car to a dealer.
The locksmith needs a digital ohmmeter to read the resistance value of the pill. It is not a frequency measurement so if he is using some sort of frequency meter he will not get any values.
You are correct on how the system responds to the wrong value resistor. It will shut down for ~4 minutes and if you try to restart the vehicle with the correct key sometime during that time period the timer is reset to the max value again. So you just sit there and watch your watch until the time passes (seems like forever).
Bill
Corvette Stories
The Best of Corvette for Corvette Enthusiasts
How Much Horsepower Every Corvette Engine "LOST" in 1972
Joe Kucinski
Top 10 DOs and DON'Ts for Protecting Your Convertible Top!
Michael S. Palmer
Top 10 Most Explosive Corvettes Ever Made: Power-to-Weight Ratio Ranked!
Joe Kucinski
150 hp to 1,250 hp: Every Corvette Generation Compared by the Specs That Matter
Joe Kucinski
8 Coolest Corvette Pace Cars (and Replicas) of All Time
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Corvette Engines RANKED by Peak Torque (70+ Years of Muscle!)
Joe Kucinski
Corvette ZR1X Will Be Pacing the Indy 500, And Could Probably Race, Too!
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Corvettes Coming to Mecum Indy 2026!
Brett Foote
Top 10 C9 Corvette MUST-HAVES to Fix These C8 Generation Flaws!
Michael S. Palmer
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 55,394
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by RCK1999
Somebody is either giving you wrong information or doesn't know what they are doing. It's obvious that your master key VAT # does not match the replacement key VAT #. Find a good locksmith that knows what they are doing and can properly read a key (its not brain surgery). Even a dealer would be able to do this, but I will NEVER suggest someone take their car to a dealer.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 807
Likes: 21
From: Los Altos CA
I don't think the key chip has a "frequency", it is simply a resistance and is easy to measure and must be duplicated by selecting the correct key blank. I think you simply got the wrong blank.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,119
Likes: 0
From: Spring Branch Texas
Originally Posted by MARK's_C5TT
Eklers had to have given me the wrong blank. They were the ones who read the the original key. I still find it strange that my key's value (the key that does work) cannot be erad by the locksmith. Reading a key's reisistor is pretty simple so its diffcult to say that he doesnt know what he's doing. I will try another locksmith. Something tells me that I may run into the same problem - the key not being able to be read.
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 55,394
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by Bill Dearborn
The locksmith needs a digital ohmmeter to read the resistance value of the pill. It is not a frequency measurement so if he is using some sort of frequency meter he will not get any values.
You are correct on how the system responds to the wrong value resistor. It will shut down for ~4 minutes and if you try to restart the vehicle with the correct key sometime during that time period the timer is reset to the max value again. So you just sit there and watch your watch until the time passes (seems like forever).
Bill
Last edited by GR8-LIFE; Apr 11, 2005 at 03:11 PM.
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 55,394
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by RCK1999
I'll bet you solve your problem by going to another locksmith. Your master key MUST be "readable"! Your car is reading it, that's why it is starting. If all else fails, buy a $10 ohm meter and read it yourself!
