Cam Question?????
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Racer
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 357
Likes: 1
From: Lenoir Tn
Cam Question?????
I have a 2004vert Just installed kooks headers, B&B builets with x pipe and Vararam. Had it dyno is putting out 330 hp Whats the next mod you people that have been there before would recomend?? What about a mild cam. I don't race the car but I like to feel the hp. Thanks for any help. I drive daily and around town and interstate. 
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,743
Likes: 3
From: Davie Florida
Before you even think about installing a cam. You need to get rid of those 2.73 gears and the stock converter. A high stall T/C and 3.42 or 3.73 gears will give your car a tremendous performance boost. You need a T/C and gears to get the best performance and good driveability with a bigger cam.
Since you don't plan on racing, the Yank SS3200 and 3.42 gears would be a great street combo. Excluding nitrous nothing will give you the same performance boost as a T/C and gears in an A4.
Since you don't plan on racing, the Yank SS3200 and 3.42 gears would be a great street combo. Excluding nitrous nothing will give you the same performance boost as a T/C and gears in an A4.
Last edited by Mitch C; Jun 17, 2005 at 06:04 AM.
Pro
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 578
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From: Folsom CA
in my 99 frc, i have a blackwing, kooks LTs, comp cam 224/224 115 lsa, slp loudmouth, and a 160 thermostat and I dynoed at 393 hp. pretty much the same as your setup but with a mild cam. gears however would be a more bang for buck mod then a cam.
gears w/ install = about $1000
cam, springs, pushrods, retainers w/ install = about $1500-1700
gears w/ install = about $1000
cam, springs, pushrods, retainers w/ install = about $1500-1700
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 156
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From: aachen nrw
Originally Posted by White99FRC
in my 99 frc, i have a blackwing, kooks LTs, comp cam 224/224 115 lsa, slp loudmouth, and a 160 thermostat and I dynoed at 393 hp. pretty much the same as your setup but with a mild cam. gears however would be a more bang for buck mod then a cam.
gears w/ install = about $1000
cam, springs, pushrods, retainers w/ install = about $1500-1700
gears w/ install = about $1000
cam, springs, pushrods, retainers w/ install = about $1500-1700
Never! I really dont believe that.
If you have a M6 you should be around 360RWHP.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,322
Likes: 2
From: New York NY
Cruise-In VI Veteran
St. Jude Donor '05
Originally Posted by donscheffler
You say that you have 393 RWHP with just LTs, a 224 cam and a 160 thermostat?
Never! I really dont believe that.
If you have a M6 you should be around 360RWHP.
Never! I really dont believe that.
If you have a M6 you should be around 360RWHP.
Those numbers are way inflated if we are talking about rwhp. The consensus from dealers seems to be that if you go any larger than about a 224/224 cam you would certainly lose some driveability by retaining stock gears and TC. A cam like this combined with your bolts ons should put you at around 360rwhp. No need to upgrade gears/tc for a cam this mild.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,743
Likes: 3
From: Davie Florida
Originally Posted by Icemanskis
Those numbers are way inflated if we are talking about rwhp. The consensus from dealers seems to be that if you go any larger than about a 224/224 cam you would certainly lose some driveability by retaining stock gears and TC. A cam like this combined with your bolts ons should put you at around 360rwhp. No need to upgrade gears/tc for a cam this mild.I disagree, you can get away with running the stock T/C with a 224/224 or even a larger cam. However you won't get anything like the best performance or good driveability with that cam with the low stalling stock T/C. If you're going to go to the trouble and expense of swapping cams. It makes no sense to cripple your cars performance by running the stock T/C. Not to mention the better driveability you will have with a higher stalling T/C.
Last edited by Mitch C; Jun 18, 2005 at 03:45 AM.
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Instructor
Joined: Sep 2003
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From: East Windsor NJ
Another vote for gears and TC!
I agree with the gears and TC suggestion. When I had an 01 auto, I went to Chris at ECS and he suggested gears and torque converter. I must say it was one of the best mods! It really woke up the car and you will not regret it. Then do the cam and you will be finished! 
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 156
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From: aachen nrw
Originally Posted by Mitch C
[/B]
I disagree, you can get away with running the stock T/C with a 224/224 or even a larger cam. However you won't get anything like the best performance or good driveability with that cam with the low stalling stock T/C. If you're going to go to the trouble and expense of swapping cams. It makes no sense to cripple your cars performance by running the stock T/C. Not to mention the better driveability you will have with a higher stalling T/C.
I disagree, you can get away with running the stock T/C with a 224/224 or even a larger cam. However you won't get anything like the best performance or good driveability with that cam with the low stalling stock T/C. If you're going to go to the trouble and expense of swapping cams. It makes no sense to cripple your cars performance by running the stock T/C. Not to mention the better driveability you will have with a higher stalling T/C.
Drives absolutely like stock! No need for an aftermarket T/C.
I dont want it, because I never will drag race the car.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,743
Likes: 3
From: Davie Florida
Originally Posted by donscheffler
I have a TR 224 cam with stock T/C.
Drives absolutely like stock! No need for an aftermarket T/C.
I dont want it, because I never will drag race the car.
Drives absolutely like stock! No need for an aftermarket T/C.
I dont want it, because I never will drag race the car.
As I said earlier you can get away with running a stock T/C with a 224/224 cam. However you are leaving a ton of performance on the table by running a stock T/C. Whether you plan on racing or not a T/C will greatly improve your cars performance from a standstill or a roll. IMO it makes no sense to do an internal mod like installing a bigger cam. If you are going to have a very hard time running with internally stock bolt on cars with a high stall T/C.
Last edited by Mitch C; Jun 18, 2005 at 11:33 AM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,851
Likes: 1
From: San Bruno Ca
Originally Posted by donscheffler
You say that you have 393 RWHP with just LTs, a 224 cam and a 160 thermostat?
Never! I really dont believe that.
If you have a M6 you should be around 360RWHP.
Never! I really dont believe that.
If you have a M6 you should be around 360RWHP.
That does seem pretty high for not having an LS-6 intake, vararam, LS-1 edit, ported throttle body or heads. But I'm easy, so I just take the guys word.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 8,003
Likes: 249
From: Tampa Fl
St. Jude Donor '12-'13-'14
Originally Posted by donscheffler
You say that you have 393 RWHP with just LTs, a 224 cam and a 160 thermostat?
Never! I really dont believe that.
If you have a M6 you should be around 360RWHP.
Never! I really dont believe that.
If you have a M6 you should be around 360RWHP.
See sig
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 5,294
Likes: 2
From: Suffolk, Long Island NY
Originally Posted by Mitch C
As I said earlier you can get away with running a stock T/C with a 224/224 cam. However you are leaving a ton of performance on the table by running a stock T/C. Whether you plan on racing or not a T/C will greatly improve your cars performance from a standstill or a roll. IMO it makes no sense to do an internal mod like installing a bigger cam. If you are going to have a very hard time running with internally stock bolt on cars with a high stall T/C.
When will people get thier through thier heads?!
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 38,314
Likes: 35
Originally Posted by Mitch C
Before you even think about installing a cam. You need to get rid of those 2.73 gears and the stock converter. A high stall T/C and 3.42 or 3.73 gears will give your car a tremendous performance boost. You need a T/C and gears to get the best performance and good driveability with a bigger cam.
Since you don't plan on racing, the Yank SS3200 and 3.42 gears would be a great street combo. Excluding nitrous nothing will give you the same performance boost as a T/C and gears in an A4.
Since you don't plan on racing, the Yank SS3200 and 3.42 gears would be a great street combo. Excluding nitrous nothing will give you the same performance boost as a T/C and gears in an A4.
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 156
Likes: 0
From: aachen nrw
Originally Posted by Mitch C
As I said earlier you can get away with running a stock T/C with a 224/224 cam. However you are leaving a ton of performance on the table by running a stock T/C. Whether you plan on racing or not a T/C will greatly improve your cars performance from a standstill or a roll. IMO it makes no sense to do an internal mod like installing a bigger cam. If you are going to have a very hard time running with internally stock bolt on cars with a high stall T/C.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,743
Likes: 3
From: Davie Florida
Originally Posted by donscheffler
But it just gives you better performance from a roll if you at a really low speed. If you're running 60mph and get WOT it wont give you better performance I think. Or am I wrong?
The stock T/C is designed for economy not performance. It is designed to help keep your engine in the lower part of the power band for better economy. When you install a bigger cam like the 224/224 the last thing you want is a converter that makes it more difficult to get into the upper part of the power band quickly where the bigger cam is making its power.
A high stall T/C also has much higher shift extensions than the stock T/C. Every time your tranny shifts at WOT a high stall T/C does not allow your RPM to fall back as low in the next gear as the stock T/C does. Your engine is making more HP at higher RPM so your acceleration will be faster in the next gear because of the higher shift extensions. Because of its smaller size a high stall T/C can weigh up to 23 lbs. less than the stock T/C. A lighter T/C will help your engine rev faster promoting faster acceleration. Not to mention the fact that you are getting rid 23 lbs. of unsprung weight.
Last edited by Mitch C; Jun 20, 2005 at 07:44 AM.