Need More Traction !!!!
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Joined: May 2004
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From: SoCal
Need More Traction !!!!
I have 412 RWHP/390 RWTQ with a 2400 torque converter. I currently have 18x10.5 Z06 Motorsports with 295x35 Khumo rubber. My car is a 2004 C5 with 55K daily driver miles. I have seen the drags twice and open track 6 times.
My problem is that it is very hard to race off the line. I basicly have to slowly lay into the throttle or I just spin. At full throttle the car is breaking loose pretty good going into second.
I used to think this was real COOL......Now I want to hook up better!!!
Here are some options. Please submit others as well as costs involved.
1. Keep heavy MotorSports and add a wider more sticky tire. Don't forget I will be driving in the rain.
2. Get a wider rear wheel. Maybe CCW 18 or 19 x 11 and stay with same type tires. Something lighter than the Motorsports that I can still take to the track.
3. Tub and get 12 inch rear wheels. Will the new C6 Z06 wheels/tires bolt up to the C5?
Any help or suggestions are welcome
DH
My problem is that it is very hard to race off the line. I basicly have to slowly lay into the throttle or I just spin. At full throttle the car is breaking loose pretty good going into second.
I used to think this was real COOL......Now I want to hook up better!!!
Here are some options. Please submit others as well as costs involved.
1. Keep heavy MotorSports and add a wider more sticky tire. Don't forget I will be driving in the rain.
2. Get a wider rear wheel. Maybe CCW 18 or 19 x 11 and stay with same type tires. Something lighter than the Motorsports that I can still take to the track.
3. Tub and get 12 inch rear wheels. Will the new C6 Z06 wheels/tires bolt up to the C5?
Any help or suggestions are welcome
DH
Last edited by Dirty Howie; Dec 12, 2005 at 03:12 PM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,331
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From: Akron Ohio
Option #1 seems best, just get Nitto Drag Radials so you can hook better and drive in the rain. Wider meat is nice to look at, but will not get you that much more traction for all the work and expence.
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,923
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From: San Antonio TX
Originally Posted by ICaughtVetteFever
Option #1 seems best, just get Nitto Drag Radials so you can hook better and drive in the rain. Wider meat is nice to look at, but will not get you that much more traction for all the work and expence.
wider does not improve strait line traction and will make it worse in the rain, to get more traction get sticker compound tires (then you normaly have to get wider in order decient tread life).
More Than Zero
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From: SoCal
Originally Posted by M_T_0
wider does not improve strait line traction and will make it worse in the rain, to get more traction get sticker compound tires (then you normaly have to get wider in order decient tread life).
More Than Zero
How could wider not give more traction ???
What other reason do guys tub and go to 12 inch wide wheels?????
DH
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2004
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From: Newark, DE
St. Jude Donor '06
Originally Posted by Dirty Howie
This doesn't make sense to me
How could wider not give more traction ???
How could wider not give more traction ???
Now... if you were willing to get a setup like Joel, then you could have your cake and eat it too. Of course, then you'd have to give up driving in the rain...or get proficient at changing tires when the weather changed.
Last edited by Mr. Lucky; Dec 12, 2005 at 10:10 PM.
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From: SoCal
Originally Posted by Mr. Lucky
Because wider means going to a lower profile tire, in order to keep a reasonable height (O.D.) that will fit within the wheel wells. Sidewall is more important that footprint for off the line traction.
Now... if you were willing to get a setup like Joel, then you could have your cake and eat it too. Of course, then you'd have to give up driving in the rain...or get proficient at changing tires when the weather changed.
Now... if you were willing to get a setup like Joel, then you could have your cake and eat it too. Of course, then you'd have to give up driving in the rain...or get proficient at changing tires when the weather changed.
How do you explain the size/profile of the Z06 (C6) wheel/tire combo???
I was messing around with one (C6Z06) the other day by my house. I have basically the same flywheel horsepower. From 30-60 mph rolls there wasn't much either of us was pulling on the other....depending on who got the jump. BUT when we hit a light and had to start from a standstill......he walked away from me as my rear tires went up in smoke
DH
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Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2003
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From: Augusta GA
St. Jude Donor '05-'06
Are you running MXs or V700s? I was running the V700s and they are too damn sticky for the street IMO, but they hook awesome. I did run them a few times at the track (1/4) and did do some 1.8 60s but it is way too hard to get down. These same tires (V700 in 305 30 18 on my chrome 10.5 Z06 rims) took the 397 RWHP fine and even the 460 now. I could roll in it 1,2 and 3rd and they held. A stop, forgetaboutit!
Now running much bigger tires out back, 335 30 18 mich PS on 12 X 18 CCWs, and they spin very easy, esp when I am not trying too. Most of the traction problems this time of year are a combo of more HP (cold air), cold tires and cold road.
I have a set of worn 305 30 V700s on my OEM Z rims for HPDE, and a much newer set for a wet DE...
BLUFF V700s, PS 2, or maybe some Proxies or the new AS Toyos?
Dave
Now running much bigger tires out back, 335 30 18 mich PS on 12 X 18 CCWs, and they spin very easy, esp when I am not trying too. Most of the traction problems this time of year are a combo of more HP (cold air), cold tires and cold road.
I have a set of worn 305 30 V700s on my OEM Z rims for HPDE, and a much newer set for a wet DE...
BLUFF V700s, PS 2, or maybe some Proxies or the new AS Toyos?
Dave
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From: SoCal
Originally Posted by chiefDave
Are you running MXs or V700s? I was running the V700s and they are too damn sticky for the street IMO, but they hook awesome. I did run them a few times at the track (1/4) and did do some 1.8 60s but it is way too hard to get down. These same tires (V700 in 305 30 18 on my chrome 10.5 Z06 rims) took the 397 RWHP fine and even the 460 now. I could roll in it 1,2 and 3rd and they held. A stop, forgetaboutit!
Now running much bigger tires out back, 335 30 18 mich PS on 12 X 18 CCWs, and they spin very easy, esp when I am not trying too. Most of the traction problems this time of year are a combo of more HP (cold air), cold tires and cold road.
I have a set of worn 305 30 V700s on my OEM Z rims for HPDE, and a much newer set for a wet DE...
BLUFF V700s, PS 2, or maybe some Proxies or the new AS Toyos?
Dave
Now running much bigger tires out back, 335 30 18 mich PS on 12 X 18 CCWs, and they spin very easy, esp when I am not trying too. Most of the traction problems this time of year are a combo of more HP (cold air), cold tires and cold road.
I have a set of worn 305 30 V700s on my OEM Z rims for HPDE, and a much newer set for a wet DE...
BLUFF V700s, PS 2, or maybe some Proxies or the new AS Toyos?
Dave
And I just looked at my rears.....almost to the wear bar in the middle but lots of groove left towards the outside. I run 30lbs cold....maybe I should run less pressure???
I would definately like to try something softer in the 305 width. Wonder how my front MX's would like to be matched up to NittoR's in the back???
So are you saying that your 10.5 wheels with good rubber get better traction than your CCW 12 inchers???
DH
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2003
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From: Augusta GA
St. Jude Donor '05-'06
Originally Posted by Dirty Howie
I am running the MX.
And I just looked at my rears.....almost to the wear bar in the middle but lots of groove left towards the outside. I run 30lbs cold....maybe I should run less pressure???
I would definately like to try something softer in the 305 width. Wonder how my front MX's would like to be matched up to NittoR's in the back???
So are you saying that your 10.5 wheels with good rubber get better traction than your CCW 12 inchers???
DH
And I just looked at my rears.....almost to the wear bar in the middle but lots of groove left towards the outside. I run 30lbs cold....maybe I should run less pressure???
I would definately like to try something softer in the 305 width. Wonder how my front MX's would like to be matched up to NittoR's in the back???
So are you saying that your 10.5 wheels with good rubber get better traction than your CCW 12 inchers???
DH
I see many cars with nittos as a track/street tire and IMO they look great and most guys LOVE them for a combo tire.
Yes Sir, right now, my car got much better traction on the street with V700 305 30 (on chrome Z06 10.5) vs PS 335 30 (on 12 CCWs). I love the V700s but the part about throwingg crap on the car. I think for the street a MX up front and a nitto out back would be perfect. The way the PS is spinning (I am behaving I swear) I will need new street tires by the time the summer and the cruise in.
Dave
Last edited by chiefDave; Dec 17, 2005 at 10:09 PM.
Pro
Joined: Jun 2005
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From: Austin TX
You're running an auto w/ an aftermarket converter, so of course it's gonna break em loose from a standstill. You've got to think about what you're stalling at w/ your power. Even though it's rated at 2400, w/ the power you're making, that may not be the actual stall speed. I was experiencing something similiar in a 350 rwhp LT1 Z28, even running drag radials. IMO, with an auto it's all about the driving and suspension. Sticky tires help, but if you're wanting to hook from a dig, then I think you're going to want a tire w/ a large sidewall versus a wider tire with a smaller sidewall so that you'll be able to get into the throttle more on takeoff.
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From: SoCal
Alright........
Thank you guys for enlightening me. I can now understand that due to sidewall flex and stickier rubber, that a narrower tire can provide better off the line traction.
I still am curious about the new C6 Z06 wheel/tire combo......that guy I was playing with connected VERY well off the line!!!!
DH
Thank you guys for enlightening me. I can now understand that due to sidewall flex and stickier rubber, that a narrower tire can provide better off the line traction.
I still am curious about the new C6 Z06 wheel/tire combo......that guy I was playing with connected VERY well off the line!!!!
DH
Safety Car
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From: "Same as it always was"
Originally Posted by Dirty Howie
Alright........
Thank you guys for enlightening me. I can now understand that due to sidewall flex and stickier rubber, that a narrower tire can provide better off the line traction.
I still am curious about the new C6 Z06 wheel/tire combo......that guy I was playing with connected VERY well off the line!!!!
DH
Thank you guys for enlightening me. I can now understand that due to sidewall flex and stickier rubber, that a narrower tire can provide better off the line traction.
I still am curious about the new C6 Z06 wheel/tire combo......that guy I was playing with connected VERY well off the line!!!!
DH
Lack of experience... it can be embarrassing at times
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From: Lackey, my own dragstrip VA.
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Each to their own, but since you asked..........this is my good all around 1/4 mile / autocross / roadrace tire.......
345/35/18 on a 18 x 12
Gives me good traction for all applications, yep I am tubbed and drive it everywere to race
If you go 12", then you can put anything 315 and up on it
I also have other set(s) of tires/wheels for max traction at the strip/autox.
My goal was to find what works ok for all 3 applications.
I have tried all kinds of combos..........and it works great in the mountains too!
BFG KDW2s are also a good tire to use for all 3
345/35/18 on a 18 x 12
Gives me good traction for all applications, yep I am tubbed and drive it everywere to race
If you go 12", then you can put anything 315 and up on it
I also have other set(s) of tires/wheels for max traction at the strip/autox.
My goal was to find what works ok for all 3 applications.
I have tried all kinds of combos..........and it works great in the mountains too!
BFG KDW2s are also a good tire to use for all 3
Thread Starter
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Joined: May 2004
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From: SoCal
Originally Posted by ALLTHROTTLE&NOBOTTLE
Each to their own, but since you asked..........this is my good all around 1/4 mile / autocross / roadrace tire.......
345/35/18 on a 18 x 12
Gives me good traction for all applications, yep I am tubbed and drive it everywere to race
If you go 12", then you can put anything 315 and up on it
I also have other set(s) of tires/wheels for max traction at the strip/autox.
My goal was to find what works ok for all 3 applications.
I have tried all kinds of combos..........and it works great in the mountains too!
BFG KDW2s are also a good tire to use for all 3
345/35/18 on a 18 x 12
Gives me good traction for all applications, yep I am tubbed and drive it everywere to race
If you go 12", then you can put anything 315 and up on it
I also have other set(s) of tires/wheels for max traction at the strip/autox.
My goal was to find what works ok for all 3 applications.
I have tried all kinds of combos..........and it works great in the mountains too!
BFG KDW2s are also a good tire to use for all 3
How much is tubbing?? Is the car noisier now???
DH
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,884
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From: Walnut CA
Howard, I wish I could help--good topic! To me, it just makes sense that a wider tire with a larger sidewall will provide more traction. I'm just thinking that logically dragsters use large, wide, tires in the rear... The wider the tire, the more friction you're going to have with the ground... I don't see how this can reduce dry grip...
And since you have to drive in the rain too, I'd just get the stickiest summer tire you can find... Good luck!
And since you have to drive in the rain too, I'd just get the stickiest summer tire you can find... Good luck!
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From: Lackey, my own dragstrip VA.
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Originally Posted by Dirty Howie
So with your 35 side wall you get better off the line traction and better handling (track/canyons) than with a sticky 35 size on a 10.5x18 inch wheel right?How much is tubbing?? Is the car noisier now??? DH
DHDid my own tub job at the shop that was doing my 6 point roll bar, cost under $100. If a shop does it and you use LPE or similar kit $1500 ish maybe. No noise increase.
Of course I also run a BFG 345/30/18 dr on a 12" wheel (LH in picture compared to the 345/35/18)
that hooks like a **** and I drive them on the street/450+ mile one way trips in dry weather though
When I needed all purpose tires for our 00' vert............I went with bfg KDW2s 295/35/19, you could get the 18" as they would do good in rain and good traction. Nitto also makes a couple of 305 tires that would work with a 10.5 wheel, I have used Nittos and like them.......but, nothing beats a DR or slick for max traction
Thread Starter
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From: SoCal
Originally Posted by ALLTHROTTLE&NOBOTTLE
I have had good results with both 30 & 35 TIRES........
Did my own tub job at the shop that was doing my 6 point roll bar, cost under $100. If a shop does it and you use LPE or similar kit $1500 ish maybe. No noise increase.
Of course I also run a BFG 345/30/18 dr on a 12" wheel (LH in picture compared to the 345/35/18)
that hooks like a **** and I drive them on the street/450+ mile one way trips in dry weather though
When I needed all purpose tires for our 00' vert............I went with bfg KDW2s 295/35/19, you could get the 18" as they would do good in rain and good traction. Nitto also makes a couple of 305 tires that would work with a 10.5 wheel, I have used Nittos and like them.......but, nothing beats a DR or slick for max traction
Did my own tub job at the shop that was doing my 6 point roll bar, cost under $100. If a shop does it and you use LPE or similar kit $1500 ish maybe. No noise increase.
Of course I also run a BFG 345/30/18 dr on a 12" wheel (LH in picture compared to the 345/35/18)
that hooks like a **** and I drive them on the street/450+ mile one way trips in dry weather though
When I needed all purpose tires for our 00' vert............I went with bfg KDW2s 295/35/19, you could get the 18" as they would do good in rain and good traction. Nitto also makes a couple of 305 tires that would work with a 10.5 wheel, I have used Nittos and like them.......but, nothing beats a DR or slick for max traction
I really need a tire that will hook better on the street, still work good at road track events and allow me to drive in the rain. I'm not ready for a second set of wheels/tires yet. So I will be stuck with the 18x10.5 in the back.
DH