Code p0410 and engine running rich...
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Pro
Joined: Nov 2003
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From: Euless TX
Code p0410 and engine running rich...
Well since we bought my wifes vette, it has always smelled really rich when running. I confirmed my suspisions with some dyno pulls and an A/F lower than 10:1 thru the full range. A few months ago the CEL came on, and it is giving me a P0410 code. Could this be caused by bad o2 sensors? I know the 410 is the secondary system looking for a change in the voltage coming back from the sensors, so I'm wondering if the a bad o2 sensor could be causing the 410 code?
I also have an oil sending unit out, so it will probably be a good time to change the valve behind the intake as well while I'm in there.
Jeff
I also have an oil sending unit out, so it will probably be a good time to change the valve behind the intake as well while I'm in there.
Jeff
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2001
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From: Virginia Beach
CI 3-5-6-7-8 Veteran
My car was fine for a year after the LT headers then started throwing p0420 and p0430 codes which are right and left bank cat codes. The rear O2s see the increased flow as an error and throw the light. My tune took care of all that a few weeks back.
Race Director
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 19,459
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From: Schaumburg IL
CI 7-8-9-11 Veteran
St. Jude Donor '06-'10, '13
Originally Posted by Cobra4B
My car was fine for a year after the LT headers then started throwing p0420 and p0430 codes which are right and left bank cat codes. The rear O2s see the increased flow as an error and throw the light. My tune took care of all that a few weeks back.
these are the codes I throw as well caused by the Headers and stock O2's..the P410 code I think might be something else, maybe with the Air Intake?
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2003
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From: bloomfield nj
secondary air has nothing to do with it.your fault is for no secondary air action[air pump disconnected,not working,etc.].is the car tuned? if you are running that fat,i would look for either not enough air coming in[clogged/dirty air filter,too much fuel pressure,too much purge,maf not reading right,etc].what are your fuel trims?if you are that fat,you have to be close to turning on the light.it could be o2's,but i would check the obvious first.as far as 410 goes,it looks like you have no secondary air going into either bank[no pump operation,stuck closed shut-off valve,etc]. what are your o2 voltages? are you sure this car is going into closed loop[a bad coolant temp sensor will make you run fat for example].i would need to know more info to help[ie-ltft,stft,o2 voltages,etc.i saw your car is a 98,you have a vent hose coming off the regulator going into the air bridge/accordion,pull off that hose and see if there is fuel in it.
when you dyno'ed it,what did the guy tuning it say?
when you dyno'ed it,what did the guy tuning it say?
Last edited by dpd; Jan 17, 2006 at 05:17 PM.
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From: Euless TX
Originally Posted by dpd
when you dyno'ed it,what did the guy tuning it say?
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2003
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From: bloomfield nj
doesn't make sense.perfect is 0%[14.7:1]with the fuel trims.if you are rich,your front o2 voltages should be anywhere between 700-900mv[the higher the voltage the less oxygen content,the lower the more the oxygen content]if you are running fat[i'll go with the fuel smell]your long/short fuel trims should be minus[pcm pulling fuel out of motor to compensate for rich condition]-25%-+25% turn the cel on.i don't buy the drive it more theory,if it was dyno'ed you simulated the drive it like you stole it theory and the a/f ratio should have straightened out or at least changed.if you ask me,it sounds like you have a problem.JMO
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From: Euless TX
I agree, I have a problem. So does the car.....
the air pump runs when teh car is started, and I think I remember it cycling when the car is already warmed up. I'll have to check tonight. I'll probably start with the air valve's and then move on if that doesn't fix it.
the air pump runs when teh car is started, and I think I remember it cycling when the car is already warmed up. I'll have to check tonight. I'll probably start with the air valve's and then move on if that doesn't fix it.
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Drifting
Joined: Oct 2003
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From: bloomfield nj
just because the air pump runs,doesn't mean you have air going to the shut-off valve.simple test.start the car cold,the air pump should come on,pll the hose off the check valve on the drivers side,if you feel air blowing on your hand,you may have a bad check valve,clog,etc.if you don't fee any air,look at the line from the pump to the shut-off valve,etc.[you can do the same for the right side].i would be more concerned with the running rich first.
Safety Car
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,661
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From: Ocean Springs MS
I had a CEL and that 0410 code a few days ago. I reset the code and it hasn't returned since. I agree that you should check for kinks or obstructions in you AIR system, as that is one of the steps the service manual recommends for this code.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2003
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From: Canton MI
Originally Posted by ex-bmw-man
Well since we bought my wifes vette, it has always smelled really rich when running. I confirmed my suspisions with some dyno pulls and an A/F lower than 10:1 thru the full range. A few months ago the CEL came on, and it is giving me a P0410 code. Could this be caused by bad o2 sensors? I know the 410 is the secondary system looking for a change in the voltage coming back from the sensors, so I'm wondering if the a bad o2 sensor could be causing the 410 code?
I also have an oil sending unit out, so it will probably be a good time to change the valve behind the intake as well while I'm in there.
Jeff
I also have an oil sending unit out, so it will probably be a good time to change the valve behind the intake as well while I'm in there.
Jeff
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Joined: Nov 2003
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From: Euless TX
Originally Posted by dpd
just because the air pump runs,doesn't mean you have air going to the shut-off valve.simple test.start the car cold,the air pump should come on,pll the hose off the check valve on the drivers side,if you feel air blowing on your hand,you may have a bad check valve,clog,etc.if you don't fee any air,look at the line from the pump to the shut-off valve,etc.[you can do the same for the right side].i would be more concerned with the running rich first.
Jeff
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2003
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From: bloomfield nj
if the car was still cold,it might,but it should only for about a minute then shut off.if it was running rich,it's because it doesn't shut off and the front o2's are seeing so much air,the pcm compensates for the extra air by fattening the mixture.more than likely the pump relay is stuck
Last edited by dpd; Jan 27, 2006 at 12:18 PM.
Thread Starter
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From: Euless TX
Originally Posted by dpd
if the car was still cold,it might,but it should only for about a minute then shut off.if it was running rich,it's because it doesn't shut off and the front o2's are seeing so much air,the pcm compensates for the extra air by fattening the mixture.more than likely the pump relay is stuck
Is it in the fuse panel under the pass kick panel?
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2003
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From: bloomfield nj
Originally Posted by ex-bmw-man
Is teh pump relay sticking a common problem?
Is it in the fuse panel under the pass kick panel?
Is it in the fuse panel under the pass kick panel?
it's happened before.i think it's in the underhood fuse block.it should be marked.
