C5 Tech Corvette Tech/Performance: LS1 Corvette Technical Info, Internal Engine, External Engine, Tech Topics, Basic Tech, Maintenance, How to Remove & Replace
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Any experience with grooved heads?

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Jan 29, 2006 | 12:38 AM
  #1  
greg_nate's Avatar
greg_nate
Thread Starter
Pro
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 514
Likes: 2
Default Any experience with grooved heads?

Recently, I've been fixated with grooved heads. Here's a good starter link:

http://www.somender-singh.com/

They say that putting a groove in the cylinder head's squish area greatly improves combustion chamber turbulence. Apparently torque is improved over the whole curve. Higher compression can be used.

His work is backed by a U.S. patent.

On the above site are several people who are putting the grroves in SBC engines. There's even a couple of LS1 owners using the grooves as well as a guy with a set of AFRs with custom grooves.

Does anyone have any experience with this?
Reply
Old Jan 29, 2006 | 01:16 AM
  #2  
turboc5's Avatar
turboc5
Pro
10 Year Member
 
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 743
Likes: 1
From: Bartlett IL
Default

Looks interisting. I would "think" it would cause hot spots? Some one (like a shop) should do a dyno before and after with some old heads lying around.
Reply
Old Jan 29, 2006 | 02:52 AM
  #3  
SpeedyZ's Avatar
SpeedyZ
Drifting
Supporting Lifetime Gold
20 Year Member
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,384
Likes: 8
From: Southwest Virginia
Default

Does sound neat, and I could see how it would stir up the mix. But one thing I found odd on the site was the statement:

Ensure a 0.070" piston to head clearance is maintained, measured at engine assembly. Most hot rodders are tempted to raise the compression by reducing the piston to head clearance down to 0.040" or less, resist the temptation.
Looks like running the quench closer would enhance the groove effect?
Reply
Old Jan 29, 2006 | 11:03 AM
  #4  
Face's Avatar
Face
Le Mans Master
15 Year Member
 
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 5,294
Likes: 2
From: Suffolk, Long Island NY
Default

I believe Absolute Speed used to do something simular with thier heads.
Reply
Old Jan 29, 2006 | 11:47 AM
  #5  
greg_nate's Avatar
greg_nate
Thread Starter
Pro
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 514
Likes: 2
Default

Originally Posted by SpeedyZ
Does sound neat, and I could see how it would stir up the mix. But one thing I found odd on the site was the statement:



Looks like running the quench closer would enhance the groove effect?

Here's another link from fueleconomytips.com which talks more about the theory of how it works.

http://www.fueleconomytips.com/index...id=73&Itemid=2

And here's a thread on their site that I am following waiting for dyno results. The site is dedicated to fuel economy, so you have to weed through the thread to find good nuggets about torque and performance.

http://www.mpgresearch.com/viewtopic...hlight=grooves

greg
Reply
Old Jan 29, 2006 | 12:41 PM
  #6  
Warp Factor's Avatar
Warp Factor
Le Mans Master
Supporting Lifetime
Conversation Starter
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,088
Likes: 1,829
From: Metro Detroit Michigan
Default

Fascinating stuff.
I didn't take the time to wade through everything.......

Have they done a baseline test on the verge of detonation, and then upped the compression using the same gas and not had detonation with the gooving?

Have they seen how much they can increase boost with no other changes except the grooving?

_____________________
2000 FRC, ECS Paxton
Reply
Old Jan 29, 2006 | 02:30 PM
  #7  
greg_nate's Avatar
greg_nate
Thread Starter
Pro
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 514
Likes: 2
Default

Originally Posted by Warp Factor
Fascinating stuff.
I didn't take the time to wade through everything.......

Have they done a baseline test on the verge of detonation, and then upped the compression using the same gas and not had detonation with the gooving?

Have they seen how much they can increase boost with no other changes except the grooving?

_____________________
2000 FRC, ECS Paxton
I am waiting for the Chevy guy to post more results too. Apparently it has become so commonplace that they recommend grooving the heads while you have the heads off for a refresh.

I am hoping the guy from AFR chimes in (Tony, I think is his name) since one of the posters did the grooving on AFR 205s.

What got my attention was two things:
- Compression could be bumped up considerably without detonation.
- They are doing it on high performance engines. After grooving the heads, his .700 inch lift cam idled at 600rpms.
Reply
Old Jan 29, 2006 | 09:29 PM
  #8  
greg_nate's Avatar
greg_nate
Thread Starter
Pro
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 514
Likes: 2
Default

ttt, looking for more feedback
Reply
Corvette Stories

The Best of Corvette for Corvette Enthusiasts

story-0

10 Ugly Corvettes That We Still Kinda Love

 Joe Kucinski
story-1

Top 10 Most Expensive Corvettes Ever Sold on Bring A Trailer

 Brett Foote
story-2

10 Things Every Corvette Owner Needs (2026 Edition)

 Michael S. Palmer
story-3

8 Most "Only Corvette Owners Understand" Quirks and Problems

 Pouria Savadkouei
story-4

10 Reasons the C6 Z06 is Still A Performance Benchmark After 20 Years

 Joe Kucinski
story-5

How Much Horsepower Every Corvette Engine "LOST" in 1972

 Joe Kucinski
story-6

Top 10 DOs and DON'Ts for Protecting Your Convertible Top!

 Michael S. Palmer
story-7

Top 10 Most Explosive Corvettes Ever Made: Power-to-Weight Ratio Ranked!

 Joe Kucinski
story-8

150 hp to 1,250 hp: Every Corvette Generation Compared by the Specs That Matter

 Joe Kucinski
story-9

8 Coolest Corvette Pace Cars (and Replicas) of All Time

 Verdad Gallardo
Old Jan 29, 2006 | 11:12 PM
  #9  
leaftye's Avatar
leaftye
Safety Car
10 Year Member
 
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 4,979
Likes: 5
From: San Diego, CA "leaf" "tee" "e"
Default

I would think these grooves would be a source of stress risers. I might be willing to try it on a CRX engine I'm rebuilding...
Reply
Old Jan 30, 2006 | 12:17 AM
  #10  
spdislife's Avatar
spdislife
Le Mans Master
15 Year Member
 
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,403
Likes: 31
From: Allentown PA & Elk Twp NJ HPDE Addict
Default

Now I've got to jog my memory here, but about 25 or so years ago I built a B/Dragster and used what were then state of the art heads from Brandywine. I've no clue if they are still in business but the intakes were left with a somewhat rough finish and the thinking was that it would create turbulance which enhanced combustion. Exhaust ports were smooth as a baby's butt to reduce any resistence for exhaust gases. Whether this goove accomplishes the same goal I've no clue. But it sounds very familier.
Reply
Old Jan 30, 2006 | 02:36 AM
  #11  
greg_nate's Avatar
greg_nate
Thread Starter
Pro
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 514
Likes: 2
Default

Originally Posted by spdislife
Now I've got to jog my memory here, but about 25 or so years ago I built a B/Dragster and used what were then state of the art heads from Brandywine. I've no clue if they are still in business but the intakes were left with a somewhat rough finish and the thinking was that it would create turbulance which enhanced combustion. Exhaust ports were smooth as a baby's butt to reduce any resistence for exhaust gases. Whether this goove accomplishes the same goal I've no clue. But it sounds very familier.
The difference here is that the turbulence is created in the combustion chamber, as opposed to the velocity created in the intake runner. The grooves do this *AFTER* the intake valve has closed.

Here's a quote from the article.
[begin quote]
The cylinder heads of most modern engines are divided into 2 segments: the “squish” area, and the “quench” area. The squish area squeezes the air fuel charge and forces it into the larger quench area on the compression stroke. Squish creates high velocity streams inside the cylinder to vaporize and homogenize the fuel in the air.

Looking at the picture above, there are 5 lines carved into the squish area of the cylinder head. There are 3 lines opposite the spark plug, and 2 lines adjacent to the spark plug. Notice that all 5 lines are aimed straight for the spark plug tip. As the spark plug fires and the flame front traverses outwardly, this pressure wave will travel down the grooves to form high-pressure jet streams. At this point, the cylinder head and piston are still cool enough that this jet stream isn’t dangerously hot.

Consider that the heavier elements in gasoline vaporize at 435 degrees F. at atmospheric pressure. Also consider that when the piston comes up on the compression stroke, this 435 turns into upwards of 1000 degrees F. under the extreme pressure. The liquid gasoline will go where there is the least activity in the cylinder…between the cylinder walls and the piston. The center groove shoots a jet stream down along the edge of the piston to blow this liquid fuel back out into the high velocity activity area of the combustion chamber where it can combust and produce power.

The other 4 grooves act to direct the swirl activity within the combustion chamber, as well as clean out the ring lands. They create a more intense, higher speed swirl which brings more of the fuel in contact with the flame front in a shorter period of time. This gives a more complete burn (read that lower exhaust emissions), less heat energy transfer to the cooling system, less carbon build-up on the piston rings and in the engine oil, more power, and better fuel economy.

In this picture there is only one groove. The cylinder head already incorporates high swirl design and the one groove is added primarily to clean out the ring lands of the liquid fuel. By visiting Somender’s web site you’ll find that the majority of the people incorporating his grooves are using just the single groove with impressive results.

The shape of the piston and cylinder head have their greatest affects on combustion efficiency when the piston is within about 10 mm of Top Dead Center (TDC). When the piston is more than 10 mm away from TDC, the cylinder head and pistons are just distant and innefectual walls bordering a large open expanse. So the grooves do their work within this 10 mm range. On the compression stroke, they force the compressing air/fuel charge into the quench area via higher velocity jet streams to better vaporize and homogenize the fuel. On the power stroke, they guide the explosion through these same jet streams but in reverse to create vorticies, to clean out the ring lands, and to some greater or lesser degree further excite the flame front.

Due to the rapid burn rate, higher compression ratios can be used without detonation problems. On turbo and supercharged engines, higher boosts can be run on the same octane fuel. In either case, lower octane fuel can be used than by conventional means
[end quote]
Reply

Get notified of new replies

To Any experience with grooved heads?





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:45 AM.

story-0
10 Ugly Corvettes That We Still Kinda Love

Slideshow: 10 ugly Corvettes that we still kinda love.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-06-03 10:34:17


VIEW MORE
story-1
Top 10 Most Expensive Corvettes Ever Sold on Bring A Trailer

A lot of money has changed hands at the online auction house over the years.

By Brett Foote | 2026-06-03 10:21:50


VIEW MORE
story-2
10 Things Every Corvette Owner Needs (2026 Edition)

Slideshow: 10 great gifts Corvette enthusiasts actually want for Father's Day!

By Michael S. Palmer | 2026-06-03 15:43:40


VIEW MORE
story-3
8 Most "Only Corvette Owners Understand" Quirks and Problems

Slideshow: These are the quirks, annoyances, and oddly lovable problems that every Corvette owner eventually learns to live with.

By Pouria Savadkouei | 2026-05-28 09:31:39


VIEW MORE
story-4
10 Reasons the C6 Z06 is Still A Performance Benchmark After 20 Years

Slideshow: 10 reasons why the C6 Z06 is still a performance benchmark after 20 years.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-05-27 17:20:09


VIEW MORE
story-5
How Much Horsepower Every Corvette Engine "LOST" in 1972

Slideshow: How much horsepower every Corvette engine lost in 1972.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-05-27 16:54:53


VIEW MORE
story-6
Top 10 DOs and DON'Ts for Protecting Your Convertible Top!

Slideshow: How to Protect A Convertible Top: 10 DOs & DON'Ts

By Michael S. Palmer | 2026-04-03 00:00:00


VIEW MORE
story-7
Top 10 Most Explosive Corvettes Ever Made: Power-to-Weight Ratio Ranked!

Slideshow: The 10 most explosive Corvettes ever built based on power-to-weight ratio.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-05-20 07:23:03


VIEW MORE
story-8
150 hp to 1,250 hp: Every Corvette Generation Compared by the Specs That Matter

Slideshow: From C1 to C8 we compare every Corvette generation by the numbers.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-05-12 16:54:12


VIEW MORE
story-9
8 Coolest Corvette Pace Cars (and Replicas) of All Time

Slideshow: Some Corvette pace cars became collectible legends, while others perfectly captured the look and attitude of their era.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-05-11 09:50:51


VIEW MORE