Any EFILive experts that might be able to help me get my tune in the ball park? I need to get my project car tuned enough to run it while I finish it up. It will be sometime before I get it on the road or dyno and its running way too rich now, its fouling plugs just pulling it in and out of the shop. EFILive is in the mail! I'm hoping someone might be able to send me a file or some good details of what I need to change. It seems to be running between 12:1 and 12.5:1 at idle in open loop.

Mods: AFR205 59cc, LG Pro LT w/Cats, Halltech Stinger, MTI X1 cam (.230/.227 .592/.572 112LS), dual LC-1 WB O2s

Car: 2001 Z06

 

I'm far from an expert, but I pm'd you anyway

 

most people install motors in complete cars... your installing a body on a completed motor...i find this absolutly hilarous!
no help on the EFI live buddy, but i had to say, you have a lot of ***** taking that body off!!! thinking about weight reduction??? LOL

i admire your talent and skill...best of luck on the install!
Aj

 

LOL!!! This project is pretty much a backwards project! Most people buys a car, drives it around a while then starts modding it. I bought the car, started modding it and hope someday I can drive it around! I have drove this car less than two miles, and that was just like you see it! I bought this car salvaged with lite rear damage. Been fixing it myself in my spare time. The entire rear needed new paint, and with the horrible orange peel that GM puts on these cars I decided to paint the entire car. That is why all the body is off. Except of course rockers and I wouldn't touch them with a 10 foot scraper! They were painted on the car. So while everything was apart I started thinking (after reading this forum! ), I should install a .... and... and... and.... And with over $15k in mods later I'm thinking it got a little out of hand! I wanted to do all the engine work while the body was off and waiting to be painted, that way I wouldn't risk scratching up the new paint. The rear diff takes less than 15 minutes to pull out of the car like this, so it got an output shaft and brace. The list goes on and on....

 

Hmm, looks like you have bigger problems than running rich...
Seriously, just wait until you have EFILive in hand before you do something to the motor to lean it out. I was thinking you could try pulling the PCV hose off the back of the throttle body, but that would give you a vacuum leak and not unmetered air. What about loosening the air bridge from the coupler? The only problem I have with any of this is the computer will try to compensate and if it can't it will throw a code. Before that happens I suspect you may be worse off than you already are. BTW, with those WB's EFILive will be a snap to put your AFR right on the money.

 

Sounds to me like a 02 sensor problem.

I had the same issue after installing my lg headers,

turned out to be I had the 02 sensors crossed.

The right bank sensor would command more fuel, the left bank would get the fuel, and so on. So it would end up fouling the plugs in about 2 minutes after reaching closed loop.

It would take a rather large air leak past the MAF to foul the plugs but its been known to happen.

No doubt it needs to be tuned but I would bet that is not what is fouling out the plugs.

 

There is a fundamental problem somewhere cause you should not be idling in open loop. 02 or something. Try to figure out from codes why it is in open loop.

 

The car might not stay running long enough to warm up and go into closed loop. We need more details.

 

Everything seems to be working correctly, it is just way out of tune. Once it warms up it does go into closed loop and the PCM starts using the O2 reading it does skew the AFR back up around 14.7:1. So that is working fairly well, it does jump around a lot but averages around 14.7:1 so the PCM is trying real hard to keep it there, but obviously it is way out of tune. My problem is before it warms up and goes into closed loop it is running 12:1 AFR and that is probably with the AIR pump running, so it is probably really a lot richer than 12:1. When I fire it up to move it in or out of the garage it only runs 2-3 minutes at a time, never warms up enough to get into closed loop. So it is always rich and fouling the plugs. Another problem is the battery is out of the car a lot, so even if it does warm up enough to get into closed loop and starts to learn how to run, then the next time after the battery has been out it has to start back from scratch and learn everything again. Right now I just need to get it tuned close enough it will fire up and idle near 14.7:1. I'm completely new to tuning. My EFILive will be here Thursday, I was just hoping someone who knows EFILive could help me get this thing tuned close enough until I get it on the road. I didn't want to have to spend a lot of time learning EFILive right now, I would rather put the time into getting it back together right now and learn the tuning and EFILive after I get it on the road.

 

Ok, now I understand what you want to do. Sorry for not getting it the first time...
Although I'm not an EFILive expert, I have used it extensively so here is what I would do to get you going.
After you get the the PID's validated and the PCM licensed do a read and get the current stock tune and save it. Then rename it and save it again so you have 2 copies. Copy both onto a CD for archiving.
Go to Edit->Properties. Make sure the Commanded Fuel values are set to display in AFR. Click OK.
Go to Engine calibration->Mixture->Commanded Fuel When in Open Loop. Above the 3D graph is an edit box labeled Adjust:. Enter 15 into it. Select the entire table by clicking in the top left blank gray cell. Click on the % button. This should bring your values up 15% higher than they were. Go to File-> Save As.. and save as a different file name. Flash the tune. I suspect the richness you are encountering is due to the cam and other goodies on there now. You have the AFR sensors so after I did this I would start it up and check things out and make your adjustments from there in that table. Think of this table as an 'electronic choke.' After you go into closed loop this table will no longer be referenced.

 

Good advice ^^. When it is cold it is in open loop trying to run "with choke" rich and your mods likely induce richness plus you are doing a new LTFT learn each time due to battery fail. Keeping the battery on a trickle will help the PCM to gain some experience till you can tune it.
I suspect you are going to need a WB and be road ready before you can make significant tuning progress. IMHO

 

If you haven't touched the tune at all, then it is no surprise. If the coolant temp is staying low, then the PCM probably is commanding 11.5-12.5:1. I assume you upgraded the injectors? If so, your injector flow rate (B4001) is wrong. The PCM thinks you have 28lb/hr injectors and is commanding a pulsewidth based on that flow rate to meet the commanded AFR. If you have upgraded the injectors, then much more fuel is flowing than what the PCM 'knows'. Personally, I don't know if I would add 15% to the whole table unless it was a temporary fix until you were ready to tune. There are many options:
1) only modify the Open Loop Fuel Table (B3605) in the area (based on MAP and Coolant Temp) where the car actually idles.
2) change the injector flow rate (B4001) to accurately reflect the injectors (only if you changed the injectors)
3) alter the VE table in the region where the car idles (based on MAP and RPM); typically for cam'ed applications these values are reduced as high performance cams are typicall less efficient than the stock cam a low RPM; thus, the engine is less efficient and reducing the VE table #'s will tell the PCM there is less air entering the motor which will lead to a shorter pulsewidth as well

 

FYI, here is an example of Commanded AFR's from the Open Loop Fuel Table

So, if ECT stays low the commanded AFR is fairly rich.

 

I would definitely do this for the long term. I was responding to this statement.
As stated he just wants to be able to start it and pull it in and out of the garage without the plugs fouling.

 

Thanks guys! This is exactly what I'm looking for! JoeyG from the top of this thread is helping me also. Lots of good info here! This is just a temporary fix. I'm sure I will learn this stuff once I get the car on the road and can do some logging (and a lot of reading) but right now looking at all those tables in EFILive is pretty intimidating!

I still have stock injectors, for now. I will change them later since I do want to play with a dry shot on this car. No need to change them now since they are so easy to change, I wanted to get all the engine work out of the way while all the body was off out of the way. Intake and injector are easy so I will wait till after the rest of the car is complete.

I have dual LC-1 WB O2's, one in each bank. Does EFILive do a good job logging both banks with dual O2's? Now when first started I'm logging around 12:1 AFR (pre cat) and now that I think about it the AIR pump is probably running blowing fresh air down the pipe so probably I'm really in the 8:1 to 9:1 range. I have not checked to verify the pump is running, but I will unhook and plug the AIR pipes and see what AFR I'm really running at start up.

Thanks again guys for all the help!

BTW: Where is the best reading/learning on tuning? I hear lots of people say ls1tech.com is good. I plan on doing a lot of reading on this stuff down the road...

 

WOW!! Cool info!!!