Burning Oil = Burning Mad
Thread Starter
5th Gear
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5
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From: Albuquerque NM
Burning Oil = Burning Mad
I've got one of the first Yellow 2001's off the line. Documents indicate a build date of mid July. Little did I know about the oil problems. Currently have 3300 miles. 6 speed, coupe. I use a quart every 400 miles, like clockwork. I have not been aggressive, however dealer asked me to run it hard with high RPMs to make sure the rings had seated. During this "test" I used a quart in 100 miles. Dealer wants to replace rings. I'm concerned this is a bandaid approach, and that I'll be back in this same boat in a few years. Anyone else have the rings replaced? What are the results? I'm tempted to hold out for new motor. Same dealer has actually dropped a new motor into a 2000 for the same reason, plus they gave the owner two free years of oil changes. Before I proceed, I'd appreciate feedback from those who have gone down this path already. Besides a documented oil burn rate logged at the dealership, is there any other documentation I should think about securing to better my case for a new motor?
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,912
Likes: 0
From: South Florida
Re: Burning Oil = Burning Mad (Yellow_Fever)
People that have posted after the ring replacements have said no further oil consumption.
The new ring is suppose to be "nappier" in that its suppose to scrape up more oil. Chances are when they made their decision on these rings they probably erred on the side of overkill so that the issue be done with so there shouldnt be any further issues and make any chance of fighting for an engine replacement practically impossible cause it take care of it.
"Nappier" rings effect on hp should be marginal, if even detectable, but would like to see some before and after dynos. Doubt we'll ever see it though.
The new ring is suppose to be "nappier" in that its suppose to scrape up more oil. Chances are when they made their decision on these rings they probably erred on the side of overkill so that the issue be done with so there shouldnt be any further issues and make any chance of fighting for an engine replacement practically impossible cause it take care of it.
"Nappier" rings effect on hp should be marginal, if even detectable, but would like to see some before and after dynos. Doubt we'll ever see it though.
I've got one of the first Yellow 2001's off the line. Documents indicate a build date of mid July. Little did I know about the oil problems. Currently have 3300 miles. 6 speed, coupe. I use a quart every 400 miles, like clockwork. I have not been aggressive, however dealer asked me to run it hard with high RPMs to make sure the rings had seated. During this "test" I used a quart in 100 miles. Dealer wants to replace rings. I'm concerned this is a bandaid approach, and that I'll be back in this same boat in a few years. Anyone else have the rings replaced? What are the results? I'm tempted to hold out for new motor. Same dealer has actually dropped a new motor into a 2000 for the same reason, plus they gave the owner two free years of oil changes. Before I proceed, I'd appreciate feedback from those who have gone down this path already. Besides a documented oil burn rate logged at the dealership, is there any other documentation I should think about securing to better my case for a new motor?
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 2,375
Likes: 0
From: Pittsburgh, PA
Re: Burning Oil = Burning Mad (Yellow_Fever)
I just can't seem to make sense of the oil consumption thing. My '00 6 spd coupe used 1/2 qt/3000 miles. My '01 6 spd vert uses 1 qt/2000 miles. I drove both and broke in both the same way. I do drive fairly agressively, over 3K most of the time and lots of runs to redline. I'm not complaining about the 1 qt in 2K miles, but why do some cars burn a qt every 300-700??? If it were just a ring flutter issue all cars would be doing it.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,019
Likes: 0
From: los gatos, ca
Re: Burning Oil = Burning Mad (Scruffy)
The *napier* style rings is a good decision. The problem with oil consumption got significantly worse in 2001 when they went from a 13lb to 9lb oil scraper. There was always an issue before but not as bad as 2001. The traditional ring design used in 97-01 will always burn some oil.
THe napier style ring is what the japanese have been using for years on their engines. The profile is much better at scraping oil off the walls.
The catch is that these rings are harder to manufacture correctly and they are also a lot more expensive. This is probably the reason they were not used from the start.
What I want to know is what good does coating pistons with Teflon do?
My 2001 also burns a quart every 400 miles like clockwork too.
[Modified by sorka, 5:41 PM 8/10/2001]
THe napier style ring is what the japanese have been using for years on their engines. The profile is much better at scraping oil off the walls.
The catch is that these rings are harder to manufacture correctly and they are also a lot more expensive. This is probably the reason they were not used from the start.
What I want to know is what good does coating pistons with Teflon do?
My 2001 also burns a quart every 400 miles like clockwork too.
[Modified by sorka, 5:41 PM 8/10/2001]
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,912
Likes: 0
From: South Florida
Re: Burning Oil = Burning Mad (sorka)
Teflon coated so your eggs wont stick to your pistons? :confused:
Going with the lighter scraper is an old hot rod trick to find and squeeze a few more hp so it is nothing new. But I guess they had issues. Maybe the tolerances of the rings... below 9 lbs.? Just guessing since we can't get anyone in the know to clue us in.
Actually, decreasing piston-to-bore clearance makes the cylinders more susceptible to hot-scuff because of the tighter fit. The coating will aid against scuffing. I don't particularly don't like that idea cause I'm more concerned about the coating chipping, flaking and the 'teflon' can do a job on the cylinders.
[Modified by don527, 10:16 PM 8/10/2001]
Going with the lighter scraper is an old hot rod trick to find and squeeze a few more hp so it is nothing new. But I guess they had issues. Maybe the tolerances of the rings... below 9 lbs.? Just guessing since we can't get anyone in the know to clue us in.
Actually, decreasing piston-to-bore clearance makes the cylinders more susceptible to hot-scuff because of the tighter fit. The coating will aid against scuffing. I don't particularly don't like that idea cause I'm more concerned about the coating chipping, flaking and the 'teflon' can do a job on the cylinders.
The *napier* style rings is a good decision. The problem with oil consumption got significantly worse in 2001 when they went from a 13lb to 9lb oil scraper. There was always an issue before but not as bad as 2001. The traditional ring design used in 97-01 will always burn some oil.
THe napier style ring is what the japanese have been using for years on their engines. The profile is much better at scraping oil off the walls.
The catch is that these rings are harder to manufacture correctly and they are also a lot more expensive. This is probably the reason they were not used from the start.
What I want to know is what good does coating pistons with Teflon do?
My 2001 also burns a quart every 400 miles like clockwork too.
[Modified by sorka, 5:41 PM 8/10/2001]
THe napier style ring is what the japanese have been using for years on their engines. The profile is much better at scraping oil off the walls.
The catch is that these rings are harder to manufacture correctly and they are also a lot more expensive. This is probably the reason they were not used from the start.
What I want to know is what good does coating pistons with Teflon do?
My 2001 also burns a quart every 400 miles like clockwork too.
[Modified by sorka, 5:41 PM 8/10/2001]
[Modified by don527, 10:16 PM 8/10/2001]
Advanced
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
From: PORTLAND oregon
Re: Burning Oil = Burning Mad (Yellow_Fever)
I have owned yellow 6spd since 7/26/01. I think it was built a month before. I burned no oil at 1300 mile when I changed it. Drained the oil good and it required a full 7qts. Now have 2800 and no oil loss. Car is in the shop for a crack in the paint forward of the mirror. Its warranty work. They said it would take three days and on monday it will be a week.
Pro
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 531
Likes: 0
From: Alpharetta, Georgia, USA
Re: Burning Oil = Burning Mad (Yellow_Fever)
My '01 ZO6 was repurchased by GM for oil use. 1 quart every 400 miles, give or take. Broken in to the letter as described in the Owner's Manual. Bad rings. No ring job for me if I could help it. I didn't have to.
Dave
Dave
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Drifting
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 1,390
Likes: 36
From: INDIANA
Re: Burning Oil = Burning Mad (Yellow_Fever)
The Teflon coated pistons help the most during break-in, when cyl wall finish is a bit rougher and the the engine runs a bit warmer due to the extra friction. As far as it coming off, the 92-93 LT1's used coated pistons, and I have had a couple of 50,000 engines apart, and there was no evidence of "flaking off" of the coating. Looks to be a durable thing, but more costly. The Hib Halverson report I read says they went to the coated pistons and tighter piston/block fit on LS1/LS6's in early April, 2001, so I hope that my June 16th built Z06 has them. A tighter fitting piston should help reduce ring flutter also. Has used not one drop of oil to this point, knock on wood! 
As far as having the dealer replace the rings, well things I have seen at the dealers scare the crap out of me, like seeing them assemble a new short block for a diesel on the floor, which had oil dry kitty litter everywhere, and the Turbo Buick engine at another dealer getting a new rod bearing, with all the non-roller lifters, pushrods, and rockers piled in one box all together, nothing marked or matched. Now I know there are good dealers/mechanics out there, and I apoligize to the good ones for the fact that the bad ones give them a bad name, but in the end, its my money, and my engine and car I have to live with.
As far as having the dealer replace the rings, well things I have seen at the dealers scare the crap out of me, like seeing them assemble a new short block for a diesel on the floor, which had oil dry kitty litter everywhere, and the Turbo Buick engine at another dealer getting a new rod bearing, with all the non-roller lifters, pushrods, and rockers piled in one box all together, nothing marked or matched. Now I know there are good dealers/mechanics out there, and I apoligize to the good ones for the fact that the bad ones give them a bad name, but in the end, its my money, and my engine and car I have to live with.
Instructor
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 170
Likes: 0
From: Tucker Georgia
Re: Burning Oil = Burning Mad (Yellow_Fever)
Dumb Question...Are most of the oil users Man6? I have an Auto2001 at 1320
miles. I only drive on weekends here and there...should I be checking this thing often?
miles. I only drive on weekends here and there...should I be checking this thing often?
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 2,767
Likes: 4
From: Austin TX
Re: Burning Oil = Burning Mad (don527)
I am still looking for a first hand report from an owner that has let his dealer
replace the rings. My fear is having the rings replaced will create more problems
than it fixes. Sure would like to hear a first hand report on the ring replacment
[Modified by Dick Kriss, 7:30 AM 8/12/2001]
replace the rings. My fear is having the rings replaced will create more problems
than it fixes. Sure would like to hear a first hand report on the ring replacment
[Modified by Dick Kriss, 7:30 AM 8/12/2001]
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 2,793
Likes: 0
From: carmel Indiana usa
Re: Burning Oil = Burning Mad (Dick Kriss)
One quart every 400 miles? OUCH!:(
Hope fully you can get some re-embursement on the cost of the oil as well. This sounds like an expensive problem.
I guess adding a half quart after a 1000 miles and 10 passes at the drag strip isn't that much after all.
Please keep us all informed and good luck
David In Indy :seeya
----------------
2000 NBM M6-Coupe
All Options minus F45
Euros/Lloyd Mats/Chrome Shifter/Ripper/Halltech tric/T-bypass/Taylor
Wires/TTS Headers/High Flow Cats/X-pipe/Indy Corsas/Baers/Z06
Calipers/Russell ss brake lines/Hawk Pads/Porsche DOT4 Hi-Performance Brake
fluid/Redline oils/Zaino/Engine Dress by Auto Buffs and Design Specialties
Hope fully you can get some re-embursement on the cost of the oil as well. This sounds like an expensive problem.
I guess adding a half quart after a 1000 miles and 10 passes at the drag strip isn't that much after all.
Please keep us all informed and good luck
David In Indy :seeya
----------------
2000 NBM M6-Coupe
All Options minus F45
Euros/Lloyd Mats/Chrome Shifter/Ripper/Halltech tric/T-bypass/Taylor
Wires/TTS Headers/High Flow Cats/X-pipe/Indy Corsas/Baers/Z06
Calipers/Russell ss brake lines/Hawk Pads/Porsche DOT4 Hi-Performance Brake
fluid/Redline oils/Zaino/Engine Dress by Auto Buffs and Design Specialties
Instructor
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 115
Likes: 0
From: laguna hills CA
Re: Burning Oil = Burning Mad (Yellow_Fever)
Z06Speed--
Please let us how you got GM to buy-back your Z & how did they figure mileage in the reimbursement to you or your loan company?
Thanks,
Bob e-mail francesnbob@aol.com
Please let us how you got GM to buy-back your Z & how did they figure mileage in the reimbursement to you or your loan company?
Thanks,
Bob e-mail francesnbob@aol.com
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jun 1999
Posts: 1,090
Likes: 2
From: Minneapolis Minnesota
Re: Burning Oil = Burning Mad (Yellow_Fever)
The way GM is handling this has me extremely upset, although I'm not a candidate for a ring job. One issue is the reduction in resale value of all 2001 six speed Vettes. We are looking at a situation like the Oldsmobile diesel (anyone remember that) all over again. A new 2001 motor won't help. Try telling a prospective buyer that you don't have a problem. If you have the records that show the ring job was done, you will still have generated doubts as to the integrity of the engine. The correct and honorable solution would be for GM to offer to replace 2001 motors with 2002 versions. If I had a 2001, at this point I would seriously be looking to trade for a 2002 before this fiasco becomes widely known.
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 3,630
Likes: 8
From: Virginia Beach Virginia
Re: Burning Oil = Burning Mad (Yellow_Fever)
Worst part is that the dipstick is so difficult to read that you can't tell if you're one quarter of a quart, half a quart, or three quarters of a quart low. Right now, I have 1,356 miles on her and it appears that I am about a quarter quart low...but I really can't tell. I do know that the second little hole (at the MAX end on the dipstick) no longer gets filled with oil. :mad
Advanced
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
From: PORTLAND oregon
Re: Burning Oil = Burning Mad (Yellow_Fever)
I made a mistake my last post. I got my car out of the shop on Friday. They fixed the crack and matched the paint well when they repainted. There is odd over spray down by the vent area on the fender now so I think when it starts raining good I will take back to the shop. Any how I took my freind for a ride up Bald Peak Mountain as I wanted to show him what the new corvetts could do on corners and how the active handling will kick in. He by the way has a 69 vett with chrome every thing and a blower he say it runs 700 hp I drove his and never went beyond 4000 rpms it's so loud and the blower blocks your veiw. After almost giving him a heat attack by my cars sheer cornering and braking ablitiy my check oil light comes on. I go to the store get mobile one and it takes a full qut to bring it up to full. So on 7/12/01 I changed the oil at 1301 miles and didn't take notice of how low it was for sure before I changed it. On 8/18/01 I a full qut in at 2955 miles. I quess I do have a burner like the rest of you. I hate to think the value of the vehical will go down because of it. Good excuse to sell it and get the 02 Z06. :(
Instructor
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 204
Likes: 0
From: West Palm Beach, FL, USA fl
Re: Burning Oil = Burning Mad (MRSTEAM)
My 2000 FRC used to use 1qt every 450 mi. I said, so what, just put the
oil in and drive it like I stole it.
Once it got to 15K miles, the oil consumption went away, completely!
I just did a change at another 3k mi, and it was on the full mark....
I guess the rings finally seated :lol:
oil in and drive it like I stole it.
Once it got to 15K miles, the oil consumption went away, completely!
I just did a change at another 3k mi, and it was on the full mark....
I guess the rings finally seated :lol:
Instructor
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 115
Likes: 0
From: laguna hills CA
Re: Burning Oil = Burning Mad (MelloYellow)
Hi MelloYello--
I have 9,000 miles & have used 12 quarts of oil, including 2 quarts during the 1,000 mile dealer oil consumption test. I also have been waiting for the replacement rings. My dealer just ordered one of the two replacement ring part numbers, but it was with the help of the GM customer service rep I have been dealing with. I guess this means the replacement rings are available, but only on a case-by-case basis. So far, I am being told I will NOT be getting the replacement pistons with the rings.
Most of you probably know the c4c5specialist on this website. He asked that I NOT transmit the two replacement part numbers on this website, stating they were available on the case-by-case basis.
I would be more than willing to answer any e-mails with the information I have received so far. I also want to publically thank Z06Speed for all the help & good advice he has given me on GM re-purchasing oil burners. I am sure he would help any of you with the oil burning problem.
Thanks,
Bob Work 800-666-6634 ext 7919 (Hours: 7:00 am - 3:00 pm Pacific)
E-mail: francesnbob@aol.com
[Modified by qwikz06, 6:13 PM 8/19/2001]
I have 9,000 miles & have used 12 quarts of oil, including 2 quarts during the 1,000 mile dealer oil consumption test. I also have been waiting for the replacement rings. My dealer just ordered one of the two replacement ring part numbers, but it was with the help of the GM customer service rep I have been dealing with. I guess this means the replacement rings are available, but only on a case-by-case basis. So far, I am being told I will NOT be getting the replacement pistons with the rings.
Most of you probably know the c4c5specialist on this website. He asked that I NOT transmit the two replacement part numbers on this website, stating they were available on the case-by-case basis.
I would be more than willing to answer any e-mails with the information I have received so far. I also want to publically thank Z06Speed for all the help & good advice he has given me on GM re-purchasing oil burners. I am sure he would help any of you with the oil burning problem.
Thanks,
Bob Work 800-666-6634 ext 7919 (Hours: 7:00 am - 3:00 pm Pacific)
E-mail: francesnbob@aol.com
[Modified by qwikz06, 6:13 PM 8/19/2001]