Oil Temps Below 200: Safe??
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Joined: May 2004
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From: SoCal
Oil Temps Below 200: Safe??
Now that I have a Dewitts Radiator with built in engine cooler my oil only heats up to 190-194 normal operating conditions. I can get it over 200 by running it hard (high RPM's) in 3rd or 2nd gear (I have a A4)
I remember some threads where oil temps were discussed.....and moisture must be removed from oil by reaching certain temps....I believe 200.
Is 190-194 close enough? If not how often must the temps get over 200....daily/weekly, what??
Car gets about 450 daily driver miles a week.
DH
I remember some threads where oil temps were discussed.....and moisture must be removed from oil by reaching certain temps....I believe 200.
Is 190-194 close enough? If not how often must the temps get over 200....daily/weekly, what??
Car gets about 450 daily driver miles a week.
DH
Burning Brakes
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From: Jacksonville Florida
I have always heard engine oil should periodically get over 212 degrees in order to burn off any water/condensation within the engine. Not sure how OFTEN though. Maybe some of the more experienced guys would care to chime in?
Thread Starter
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From: SoCal
Originally Posted by Bounty
I have always heard engine oil should periodically get over 212 degrees in order to burn off any water/condensation within the engine. Not sure how OFTEN though. Maybe some of the more experienced guys would care to chime in?
RED99: I think its supposed to be hotter.
Well hopefully someone will give the answer to how often......I can't run it up to 212 every day
DH
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From: small town in S.E Pa. PA
St. Jude Donor '03-'04
the Ls/X engine was designed to run in the 190/200 coolant range, and the oil temp in the 200/210 range... running that cold 190 could be a problem...it is right on the border.....on a C5 coolant temp 10 degrees below is no problem, other than running this cold lowers oil temps
ON a C5 running 10 lower for oil could cause carbon build up, lack of flow proper flow rate, reducing its ability to lubricate.
You do Not need 200F to reduce moisture, moisture is reduced by any temperature higher than the dew point... but the hotter the variance the quicker it is removed.
you could design a oil cooler bypass with some simple plumbing..
190/200 coolant helps keep the oil in the right place at 200/210... these are refered too as the sweet spot..
ON a C5 running 10 lower for oil could cause carbon build up, lack of flow proper flow rate, reducing its ability to lubricate.
You do Not need 200F to reduce moisture, moisture is reduced by any temperature higher than the dew point... but the hotter the variance the quicker it is removed.
you could design a oil cooler bypass with some simple plumbing..
190/200 coolant helps keep the oil in the right place at 200/210... these are refered too as the sweet spot..
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2001
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From: small town in S.E Pa. PA
St. Jude Donor '03-'04
Originally Posted by Bounty
I have always heard engine oil should periodically get over 212 degrees in order to burn off any water/condensation within the engine. Not sure how OFTEN though. Maybe some of the more experienced guys would care to chime in?
Like I said evaporation occurs at any temp above the dew point.. the variance determines how quickly it evaporates...
Thread Starter
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From: SoCal
Originally Posted by Evil-Twin
the Ls/X engine was designed to run in the 190/200 coolant range, and the oil temp in the 200/210 range... running that cold 190 could be a problem...it is right on the border.....on a C5 coolant temp 10 degrees below is no problem, other than running this cold lowers oil temps
ON a C5 running 10 lower for oil could cause carbon build up, lack of flow proper flow rate, reducing its ability to lubricate.
You do Not need 200F to reduce moisture, moisture is reduced by any temperature higher than the dew point... but the hotter the variance the quicker it is removed.
you could design a oil cooler bypass with some simple plumbing..
190/200 coolant helps keep the oil in the right place at 200/210... these are refered too as the sweet spot..
ON a C5 running 10 lower for oil could cause carbon build up, lack of flow proper flow rate, reducing its ability to lubricate.
You do Not need 200F to reduce moisture, moisture is reduced by any temperature higher than the dew point... but the hotter the variance the quicker it is removed.
you could design a oil cooler bypass with some simple plumbing..
190/200 coolant helps keep the oil in the right place at 200/210... these are refered too as the sweet spot..
Thanks ET ....I knew you knew
Just to get you up to speed. I recently put in the big radiator and EOC because all my fluids hit warning lights on my last track day. I was going to switch to a 10-40 oil but as you point out regarding flow I will be keeping it the same...5-30.
What about the many times we run our cars and the oil temp never reaches full operating temps. Even before my big radiator it would take 15 minutes for oil temps to hit 200. So there is lots of engine operating time spent below 200.
BTW: I can't afford any simple bypass......do you have any ideal how much money it costs to run cooler....
Thanks for your input !!!
DH
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From: Montoursville Pa
Originally Posted by Dirty Howie
Thanks ET ....I knew you knew
Just to get you up to speed. I recently put in the big radiator and EOC because all my fluids hit warning lights on my last track day. I was going to switch to a 10-40 oil but as you point out regarding flow I will be keeping it the same...5-30.
What about the many times we run our cars and the oil temp never reaches full operating temps. Even before my big radiator it would take 15 minutes for oil temps to hit 200. So there is lots of engine operating time spent below 200.
BTW: I can't afford any simple bypass......do you have any ideal how much money it costs to run cooler....
Thanks for your input !!!
DH
Just to get you up to speed. I recently put in the big radiator and EOC because all my fluids hit warning lights on my last track day. I was going to switch to a 10-40 oil but as you point out regarding flow I will be keeping it the same...5-30.
What about the many times we run our cars and the oil temp never reaches full operating temps. Even before my big radiator it would take 15 minutes for oil temps to hit 200. So there is lots of engine operating time spent below 200.
BTW: I can't afford any simple bypass......do you have any ideal how much money it costs to run cooler....
Thanks for your input !!!
DH
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 21,325
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From: small town in S.E Pa. PA
St. Jude Donor '03-'04
Originally Posted by Dirty Howie
Thanks ET ....I knew you knew
Just to get you up to speed. I recently put in the big radiator and EOC because all my fluids hit warning lights on my last track day. I was going to switch to a 10-40 oil but as you point out regarding flow I will be keeping it the same...5-30.
What about the many times we run our cars and the oil temp never reaches full operating temps. Even before my big radiator it would take 15 minutes for oil temps to hit 200. So there is lots of engine operating time spent below 200.
BTW: I can't afford any simple bypass......do you have any ideal how much money it costs to run cooler....
Thanks for your input !!!
DH
Just to get you up to speed. I recently put in the big radiator and EOC because all my fluids hit warning lights on my last track day. I was going to switch to a 10-40 oil but as you point out regarding flow I will be keeping it the same...5-30.
What about the many times we run our cars and the oil temp never reaches full operating temps. Even before my big radiator it would take 15 minutes for oil temps to hit 200. So there is lots of engine operating time spent below 200.
BTW: I can't afford any simple bypass......do you have any ideal how much money it costs to run cooler....
Thanks for your input !!!
DH
I do have another suggestion for you..
keeping the oil in the sweet spot is more important than keeping the coolant there....
its the oil flow rate and lubricity that gives you extended engine life...
with the larger capacity radiator it is much easier to maintane the sweet spot..
Im not sure if you are running a stock stat in the car, or a lower one...
if your running a 160 or 170 I suggest you use a stock stat, if your car maintained 190 all the time your oil would see 200/210..
Now on a track day you could use a lower stat.... I change mine all the time..
it only takes five minutes...to go from my 160 to the 190...
I only lose about a pint of coolant in the swap...
this would be a better solution than a oil cooler bypass...
of course this is all contingent on what stat you have in there now to get this 194 oil temp...I many have missed some of the details in your original post..
Thread Starter
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From: SoCal
Originally Posted by Evil-Twin
yes and running these short hops can cause some issues,.... its one of the resons GM is doing a lot of decarb proceedures with this engine..
I do have another suggestion for you..
keeping the oil in the sweet spot is more important than keeping the coolant there....
its the oil flow rate and lubricity that gives you extended engine life...
with the larger capacity radiator it is much easier to maintane the sweet spot..
Im not sure if you are running a stock stat in the car, or a lower one...
if your running a 160 or 170 I suggest you use a stock stat, if your car maintained 190 all the time your oil would see 200/210..
Now on a track day you could use a lower stat.... I change mine all the time..
it only takes five minutes...to go from my 160 to the 190...
I only lose about a pint of coolant in the swap...
this would be a better solution than a oil cooler bypass...
of course this is all contingent on what stat you have in there now to get this 194 oil temp...I many have missed some of the details in your original post..
I do have another suggestion for you..
keeping the oil in the sweet spot is more important than keeping the coolant there....
its the oil flow rate and lubricity that gives you extended engine life...
with the larger capacity radiator it is much easier to maintane the sweet spot..
Im not sure if you are running a stock stat in the car, or a lower one...
if your running a 160 or 170 I suggest you use a stock stat, if your car maintained 190 all the time your oil would see 200/210..
Now on a track day you could use a lower stat.... I change mine all the time..
it only takes five minutes...to go from my 160 to the 190...
I only lose about a pint of coolant in the swap...
this would be a better solution than a oil cooler bypass...
of course this is all contingent on what stat you have in there now to get this 194 oil temp...I many have missed some of the details in your original post..
You are probably right about switching stats. I still have my stock one. And I remember your posting how quickly you swap them out. Now the question is ....... will I do this back and forth swap twice every month. Not likely........
Do you have any feelings regarding oil weight in my situation?
Thanks again for your wisdom and knowledge
DH
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 860
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From: Jacksonville Florida
Originally Posted by Evil-Twin
the Ls/X engine was designed to run in the 190/200 coolant range, and the oil temp in the 200/210 range... running that cold 190 could be a problem...it is right on the border.....on a C5 coolant temp 10 degrees below is no problem, other than running this cold lowers oil temps
ON a C5 running 10 lower for oil could cause carbon build up, lack of flow proper flow rate, reducing its ability to lubricate.
You do Not need 200F to reduce moisture, moisture is reduced by any temperature higher than the dew point... but the hotter the variance the quicker it is removed.
you could design a oil cooler bypass with some simple plumbing..
190/200 coolant helps keep the oil in the right place at 200/210... these are refered too as the sweet spot..
ON a C5 running 10 lower for oil could cause carbon build up, lack of flow proper flow rate, reducing its ability to lubricate.
You do Not need 200F to reduce moisture, moisture is reduced by any temperature higher than the dew point... but the hotter the variance the quicker it is removed.
you could design a oil cooler bypass with some simple plumbing..
190/200 coolant helps keep the oil in the right place at 200/210... these are refered too as the sweet spot..
Told you ET would come to the rescue....
Race Director
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 15,324
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From: Guelph, Ontario
Oil does not need to reach 212 in order to get rid of the moisture, even at lower temps the moisture will evaporate, it will just take a little longer.
If you're only getting the oil up to 180F, you will still be able to get rid of the moisture, but you really should make sure to drive it on longer trips just to be sure. If your oil only gets to 180F for a couple of minutes a day and then you shut it down, you'll certainly build up more moisture than if you get it up to 180F for 20-30min a day.
In the wintertime my oil rarely goes above 200F, but when I get my oil analysis done in the spring it never shows any moisture in the oil. My daily drive is about 45-60min each way though, so that helps a lot.
If you're only getting the oil up to 180F, you will still be able to get rid of the moisture, but you really should make sure to drive it on longer trips just to be sure. If your oil only gets to 180F for a couple of minutes a day and then you shut it down, you'll certainly build up more moisture than if you get it up to 180F for 20-30min a day.
In the wintertime my oil rarely goes above 200F, but when I get my oil analysis done in the spring it never shows any moisture in the oil. My daily drive is about 45-60min each way though, so that helps a lot.
Le Mans Master
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From: Hot Springs AR
Originally Posted by Dirty Howie
No.....you are not missing anything. I do indeed have a supposedly 160 stat with tune adjusted fans. Since the coolant runs at 172-178 I assume its not really a 160 as the ambient temps have been 50-65.
DH
DH
Especially if you're running track days, I'd just run with the stock t'stat. The only difference will be that the 160 t'stat will open sooner when you're warming up the engine; on the track both the 160 and the stock t'stats will be fully open.
As an aside, I now run a cover over my external oil cooler (which has a 180 degree t'stat plumbed in) and my oil temps now warm up much faster than before, and now run above 180 while cruising. It takes 5 minutes or less to R&R the cover before/after an event.
Does anyone know where I could find an oil thermostat with a set point higher than 180? Seems like one set at 200 would be ideal.
Have a good one,
Mike
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From: Murphy TX
Cruise-In II Veteran
Originally Posted by VetteDrmr
As an aside, I now run a cover over my external oil cooler (which has a 180 degree t'stat plumbed in) and my oil temps now warm up much faster than before, and now run above 180 while cruising. It takes 5 minutes or less to R&R the cover before/after an event.
DH, what kind of oil temps do you see during your track events with your current configuration?
Team Owner
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From: small town in S.E Pa. PA
St. Jude Donor '03-'04
I also agree that a 190 stat would be a good choice for all around use .
Problem with that is you need to readjust your fan setting because in normal operation your car will not see temps below 190 and if your fans are set below this number, they will stay on all the time when the car is under 35 mph...putting them back to stock would be perfect...
You Do Not want to run your oil under 200/210 for long periods of time..
Problem with that is you need to readjust your fan setting because in normal operation your car will not see temps below 190 and if your fans are set below this number, they will stay on all the time when the car is under 35 mph...putting them back to stock would be perfect...
You Do Not want to run your oil under 200/210 for long periods of time..
Pro
Joined: Mar 2002
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From: Enterprise AL
Originally Posted by Dirty Howie
No.....you are not missing anything. I do indeed have a supposedly 160 stat with tune adjusted fans. Since the coolant runs at 172-178 I assume its not really a 160 as the ambient temps have been 50-65.
You are probably right about switching stats. I still have my stock one. And I remember your posting how quickly you swap them out. Now the question is ....... will I do this back and forth swap twice every month. Not likely........
Do you have any feelings regarding oil weight in my situation?
Thanks again for your wisdom and knowledge
DH
You are probably right about switching stats. I still have my stock one. And I remember your posting how quickly you swap them out. Now the question is ....... will I do this back and forth swap twice every month. Not likely........
Do you have any feelings regarding oil weight in my situation?
Thanks again for your wisdom and knowledge
DH
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From: SoCal
Originally Posted by ToplessTexan
DH, what kind of oil temps do you see during your track events with your current configuration?
So now with the big cooler, internal EOC I am running about 10 degrees cooler on the oil and coolant. My tranny temps have droped a lot too since the internal TOC keeps temps down before going to my external tranny cooler. The biggest difference is when I drive the car hard the temps don't jump up but rather barely increase!!!
Thanks again to everyone who posted their advise. The oil is getting up to 194-198 during my freeway comutes (30-60) minutes twice a day. And usually on the last few mile home I run it a little and get the oil to 202. On the weekend its always going to get over 200
I think a small fan setting adjustment may do the trick but I will wait to see what happens at the track first.
DH
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From: small town in S.E Pa. PA
St. Jude Donor '03-'04
Originally Posted by Dirty Howie
Well that is the question !!!!! After all I wasn't having ANY cooling issues with oil,tranny or coolant during normal usage. But the last visit to the track...losts of high RPM, holding in 2nd gear (A4) and tight road course (Button Willow) put ALL my fluids at or past the max.....
So now with the big cooler, internal EOC I am running about 10 degrees cooler on the oil and coolant. My tranny temps have droped a lot too since the internal TOC keeps temps down before going to my external tranny cooler. The biggest difference is when I drive the car hard the temps don't jump up but rather barely increase!!!
Thanks again to everyone who posted their advise. The oil is getting up to 194-198 during my freeway comutes (30-60) minutes twice a day. And usually on the last few mile home I run it a little and get the oil to 202. On the weekend its always going to get over 200
I think a small fan setting adjustment may do the trick but I will wait to see what happens at the track first.
DH
So now with the big cooler, internal EOC I am running about 10 degrees cooler on the oil and coolant. My tranny temps have droped a lot too since the internal TOC keeps temps down before going to my external tranny cooler. The biggest difference is when I drive the car hard the temps don't jump up but rather barely increase!!!
Thanks again to everyone who posted their advise. The oil is getting up to 194-198 during my freeway comutes (30-60) minutes twice a day. And usually on the last few mile home I run it a little and get the oil to 202. On the weekend its always going to get over 200
I think a small fan setting adjustment may do the trick but I will wait to see what happens at the track first.
DH
you need that 190 stat in there....
Thread Starter
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From: SoCal
Originally Posted by Evil-Twin
fan adjustments do nothing above 35 mph ....fans are shut down.
you need that 190 stat in there....
you need that 190 stat in there....
Can you explain this to these other guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Also....is it possible that custom tuning has the fans runing over 35 mph or is this hard wired somehow by GM
Thanks for trying your best to steer me in the right direction (you know how hard that can be)
DH