I just bought some shorties from a forum member. I told my tuner and he said "I cant frikken help it dude....SHORTIES?!?!?! What happened, did you fall down and hit your head?" heheheh Here is my thinking on them , I want a little bit of that header sound w/out getting hella loud, I like the look of the headers in the engine bay, I still think I have a small exhaust leak and this will give a chance to replace the gaskets and such and check for it and I’ll be able to say I have headers (not LT’s but headers at least and most jokers don’t know the diff).
So now I ask, are you guys happy with your shorties?

-Ken

 

 

I only have them because I live in CA and don't want to go through the hassle of finding a blind smog tech or changing them out every two years for smog. I bought some used B&B shorties ($450) because of the 1 3/4 pipes and the merge collectors they use, which helps a bit. I sent them off to Jet Hot ($200) to be coated, which helps out with engine bay temps and gives them a better appearance. I still don't like them and if I didn't live in CA, I wouldn't have them.

 

I think you guys miss the main benefit of the Shorty. You dont have to take the headers down or out of the way to do a clutch or TC swap, you dont have to worry about o2 sensor relocation or heating, no burned o2 wires, install headaches etc etc. Plus used prices are much cheaper. Id like to see some real before/after dyno figures.

 

Don't listen to the crap some people on this board spew about shorties being worthless. They are actually worth 10-12 rwhp. Long tube packages are worth 25-30 rwhp. BUT, this is with aftermarket or no cats and an x-pipe. One of the vette magazines tested the same combo I have, B&B shorty headers, bullet exhaust, stock cats and h-pipe, and gained 30 rwhp. I paid $550 for the bullets and $500 for the shorties on e-bay. The power gains are there, and so is the sound.

I would say that the B&B shorties are the only ones to buy, because they are stainless, have equal length primaries, and really good collectors.

Oh yeah, no burnt wires, no heat issues, EASY install, legal in all 50 states, saved at least $500 bucks.

Anyone who says shorties are a waste has obviously never compared them side-by-side with the stock manifolds. My car is a 2002, so I did have the updated "tri-y" style exhaust manifolds.

 

These fit this goal perfectly. I already had my B&B bullets when I installed the headers. They slightly deepened the sound, but did not make the car significantly louder or cause any resonance issues. Even with such an agressive setup, my car is very quiet at cruise. But it screams at WOT. No one would guess I don't have long-tubes when I get on it. I get compliments all the time.

 

Ya, they seem to fit what I want exactly. I bought the B&B ones. Going to have an G5X3, B&B shorties, Vararam, UD pulley, and Borla stingers (twin tip). Should sound mean w/out killing my neighbors when I drive by or attracting to much unwanted attention from the fuzz!

-Ken

 

I gotta chime in here..... I really liked mine, and I'm sorry I changed them out. From all the tech write-ups I have seen, and personal experience, long tubes help the most at low and lower mid range RPM's. With my B&B shorties, I saw an immediate 2-3mpg fuel economy increase over the manifolds, in the DIC. I recently installed a set of Kooks 1-7/8 long tubes , complete with their 3" dual system with X-pipe from the headers back. Flowmasters are at the final exit, as with the shorties. This was on a pretty healthy motor, a 427 cube w/AFR 225's and Futral cam and FAST intake and 90mm TB. In 48 degree weather, with the stock exhaust system from the B&B "shorties" back, I hit 119.65mph trap speed and 119.64 on the only other run I made. The car wasn't dyno'd yet and shifted at 5,800 RPM on the break in tune. After the Kooks system was installed, and after a dyno tune which brought the shift points up to a more "normal" 6,800RPM, and a little warmer weather( 66 degrees-Ubly, Mi. in mid May), I ran a best of 123.50 MPH, with most runs generating a 121.75 to 122.50 range. Maybe if the weather was colder, like at Milan, in the 40's again, I MIGHT have hit 125. My E.T., however, did drop almost a half second, from 12.3's to 11.90's I love their sound, but the bang for the buck is not what I would call "cost effective". Just my .02!

 

This is true, if you pay retail for the B&B they are not very cost effective, their benefit is more from simplicity of install, lack of legal issues, and no hassles/burnt wires/etc.

I happened to get a brand new pair for $575 instead of $1000 off ebay from Lingenfelter. I guess they were cleaning house and don't use them anymore.

 

Before B&B's and 3.42 gears were installed my car made 325 rwhp and 320 rwtq. Afterwards it was 321 rwhp and 327 rwtq. Lower gears do lower the numbers on a dyno so it's likely it gained a few hp and perhaps 10 lb/ft of torque. Paying $450 for them may make the bang for the buck equal to a set of Kooks or LG's but I'd rather pay more bucks and get the bigger bang.

I might add that B&B's aren't immune from burnt wires as I've burnt the #5 wire twice.

 

Exactly.. Very happy w/ my B&B's.

 

On our project vert yep..............12.08@113
Nice and quiet with stock cam..........11s should happen now with the catback change
Time will tell
Steve

 

Shorties..and no problems...

 

Install Blackwing, ported TB, Z06 intake, bassani x-pipe and catbacks, Z06 clutch and B&B shorties ($350 from forum member). Now traction control comes on top end of first gear (never did that before)and I can't get off the line any more ...bad wheel hop...I think the overall combo with the shorties works just fine...and sounds great. Now if I can just fix the wheel hop...oh welll....next project....

 

what mods? Any before times? if thats an auto w/ a convertor thats about on par for a car w/ stock exhaust.

Dave

 

We have them on both our 99 and 04 with basically stock engines. Much better design than the 99 manifolds and much lighter than the 04's. Install was easy and no PCM issues. We run these cars in Open Road Rally’s for 20 to 30 minutes at sustained speeds of 140 to 165 and never gotten a “hot foot”, like some of my LT friends have. I did put Kool sox on to protect the wires though. As much as I like them, I’d have to say that if I did internal work , like heads, cam, blower, etc, I would go for a good set of LT’s to get the most out of it. Just one of many opinions. In the end it’s your choice and you can always change it if it’s not what you want. – C.

 

I have the B and B shorties on my 99 FRC, along with B and B exhaust...zero complaints, 100% happy and for the money they did and still do, what they are supposed to do. Great sound, additional hp and the aforementioned conveniences.

 

Getting a set of B&B shorties in the 450-550 range is a nice cost effective mod. I've since gone ARP lt's because I can. The b&b's are a nice bang for response and add a nice deeper tone.........

 

I know my post was long, but you need to read it again! Right from the first sentence, I said I was sorry I changed the B&B's over to the Kooks. I said the KOOKS were NOT cost effective for the very marginal increase in power. Sorry for the mis-understanding. For an absolute max effort car, where money is no object, sure, the Kooks are a good set-up. And their bang for the buck would be a lot better if I, or you, didn't alrready have some good shorties (i.e. B&B's). But for a guy who has already invested a grand in a shorty system (C'mon guys, even if the shorties were used and "only" $500.00, and you do the install, your time IS valuable/ worth something!!), to lay out another 1500 for the Kooks , which is what it comes to after buying the long tubes, the 3" X-pipe, etc., to gain 2 or 3 mph vs. the shorties, on a street car, that's a helluva lot-o- cash for a couple mph in the quarter! Again, this was on a 427 cuber w/AFR CNC 225s and a Futral cam. I gotta believe the difference would be even less on a stock size 346, with or without a cam. Just my .02, which probably aint even worth .02, just ask HER!!!

 

I understood, I just think that at full retail $$$ of over $1000 the b&b shorties are the worst bang for the buck header out there. But they help balance that out with their aforementioned attributes. When I found them for half the price it also made them a great bang for the buck mod and I couldn't pass them up.


I am amazed that there wasn't a worthwhile improvement on your 427 with long-tubes. I think this can be attributed to the fact that the c5s exhaust setup is very well designed, AFTER the stock exhaust manifolds. The problem with the stock units is that the primaries are not equal length. And even after the re-design making them a tri-y style unit with the introduction of the 2001 model year and z06, they simply are not an efficient design. When I layed the stock units out on the shop floor and we compared them with the B&Bs, I could not believe that such pieces of GARBAGE were mated with such a high quality motor and car. The B&B shorties correct these design flaws. Long tubes, in my opinion, merely optimize performance by squeezing out the last few hp and improving tq/area under the curve slightly by utilizing longer primaries and delaying the merge of exhaust fumes from each exhaust port.


Also, thanks for sharing your experiences with both styles, and on a high hp motor to boot. Now I feel even better about my decision and will keep them even after I can afford to pay for major mods like FI or Heads/cam.