Buy programmer or pay a tuner?
Thread Starter
Cruising
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
From: Kennesaw GA
Buy programmer or pay a tuner?
I'v always been interested in the PowerProgrammer and others like it. But I wonder if it's worth the bucks or if I should take it to a pro and have them go over it. Opinions???
So far, It's got Corsa exhaust, power coupler, and Blackwing air that the new code might be able to take advantage of.
So far, It's got Corsa exhaust, power coupler, and Blackwing air that the new code might be able to take advantage of.
Last edited by CanUSay2K; Jul 16, 2006 at 10:50 PM. Reason: Misspelled word in title
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,936
Likes: 260
From: Westchester County New York
Originally Posted by CanUSay2K
I'v always been interested in the PowerProgrammer and others like it. But I wonder if it's worth the bucks or if I should take it to a pro and have them go over it. Opinions???
So far, It's got Corsa exhaust, power coupler, and Blackwing air that the new code might be able to take advantage of.
So far, It's got Corsa exhaust, power coupler, and Blackwing air that the new code might be able to take advantage of.
I met with Chuck at Corvettes of Westchester..he took the time out from his day to explain each and every option I will have in tuning my car and also why he felt different things should be done etc...hes local to me but you can perhaps find someone local to you or mail your PCM to him and he can just program it based on what mods you have done and send it back to you...
My two cents...hope that helps...
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,396
Likes: 0
From: new york
Originally Posted by mrm1149
If your vette is a 6 spd., handhelds don't do much for you...........
Quimbo>>> go back to bed, the sun isn't even up yet!
Quimbo>>> go back to bed, the sun isn't even up yet!
Hi Mike did the ROOSTERS wake U up this morning? My alarm clock got me up this morning at 4am. Im here at the college running the A/C Chillers!!!
Today here in NYC we are going to have TEMPS around 105
QUIMBO
SEEYAAAH
Advanced
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 78
Likes: 0
From: Durham NC
Agree with having a tuner do it since you will never know as much about it as they will. Another point is that they may do future tweaks for free. Mine does except if I add supercharger or turbo. And the cost of the programmer is as much or more than having it done.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 9,369
Likes: 4
From: Zephyrhills, Florida
St. Jude Donor '06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13
Originally Posted by quimbo
Hi Mike did the ROOSTERS wake U up this morning? My alarm clock got me up this morning at 4am. Im here at the college running the A/C Chillers!!!
Today here in NYC we are going to have TEMPS around 105
QUIMBO SEEYAAAH
Today here in NYC we are going to have TEMPS around 105
QUIMBO
SEEYAAAHThe Roosters went to Lake Erie for a fish fry
We're supposed to be 95 plus, NYC oughta be fun the way the buildings hold the heat!
MIKE
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Racer
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 261
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From: Metro Detroit MI
get all your bolt ons then go see a tuner
I hate this hot weather Metro detroit is supposed to be 95 I will have to start my car 10 minutes before going anywhere so it will be tolerable inside my DD.
My Vette is tripple black so it is going to sit in garage until weather comes down because I dont want a tan line on my butt checks!
I hate this hot weather Metro detroit is supposed to be 95 I will have to start my car 10 minutes before going anywhere so it will be tolerable inside my DD.My Vette is tripple black so it is going to sit in garage until weather comes down because I dont want a tan line on my butt checks!
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,933
Likes: 13
From: The Beautiful Inland Empire WA.
You probably have a tuner close to you....but for the price they charge, think about PCM's for Less (they are on the 'net). For $250, they will take all of your information as to the mods you have and reprogram your PCM. They are supposed to be within a couple of percentage points of a custom tune that will typically cost you twice that much. I got mine done by Bryan Herta at PCM for Less, and let me tell ya' he REALLY woke up my car. I have the MN4, and it now shifts harder (chirps tires in second very easily), better mileage, smoother idle, more power throughout the rev range etc etc.....
Bryan really seems to know his stuff and has great customer service as well....
Bryan really seems to know his stuff and has great customer service as well....
Instructor
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
From: Poulsbo WA
If it were me, and it will be in the not to distant future, I would buy some programming software like HPtuners. IMO the handheld tuners are a joke and a waste of money. With HPtuner you can do all the things any other tuner can do yourself. The thing is there is a big learning curve, and admitedly, you may get better power results by using a tuner's experience. Part of the fun for me, though, is learning the new stuff and doing it myself. But that is just me.
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,847
Likes: 1
From: Iowa
Cruise-In IV Veteran
Cruise-In V Veteran
Originally Posted by Ackattack1
If it were me, and it will be in the not to distant future, I would buy some programming software like HPtuners. IMO the handheld tuners are a joke and a waste of money. With HPtuner you can do all the things any other tuner can do yourself. The thing is there is a big learning curve, and admitedly, you may get better power results by using a tuner's experience. Part of the fun for me, though, is learning the new stuff and doing it myself. But that is just me.
Considering the minor difference in price between a handheld tuner and a professional tune....I'd strongly think about getting the tuning software myself (as you have done) and learn how to do it myself.
In the meantime, I could use the software to do all of the things a handheld can do, plus a lot of things a handheld can't do, due to its limitations.
I had a Predator for a little while......not worth the money in my opinion.
Former Vendor
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 11,792
Likes: 255
From: Ossining New York
St. Jude Donor '07-'08-'09-'10-'12-'13-'14
Thanks for the Props!
Originally Posted by bkazepis
Ive been the programmer route (hypertech as thats all I can get for my 98) and I have decided to have it tuned. #1 the parameters that the hypertech allows you to change are limited, other programmers may do more BUT #2 good tuners have had more experience than you or I with different mods etc done to the cars and know what works best, whats not worth messing with etc...
I met with Chuck at Corvettes of Westchester..he took the time out from his day to explain each and every option I will have in tuning my car and also why he felt different things should be done etc...hes local to me but you can perhaps find someone local to you or mail your PCM to him and he can just program it based on what mods you have done and send it back to you...
My two cents...hope that helps...
I met with Chuck at Corvettes of Westchester..he took the time out from his day to explain each and every option I will have in tuning my car and also why he felt different things should be done etc...hes local to me but you can perhaps find someone local to you or mail your PCM to him and he can just program it based on what mods you have done and send it back to you...
My two cents...hope that helps...
Hey man.....
If you're interested in tuning.....don't waste your time with hand helds....They do very little....almost nothing. If you have questions, you can call me any time....I'll be happy to answer your questions and explain how, what, and why I tune the way I do.....In our shop we use the two best products....HP Tuners and EFI Live. You CAN feel the difference....
Call me any time if you wanna know more....
Chuck CoW
Advanced
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 53
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Originally Posted by quimbo
Give Carmen at the Vette Doctors a call he can set u up with a mail in tune. Carmen is by far one of the FINEST TUNERS around!!!!!!!!!!
The Vette Doctors Inc. (631) 841-0779
The Vette Doctors Inc. (631) 841-0779
with Quimbo give Carmen a buzz on the land line he is always willing to talk to anyone about there cars and answer all questions ZEEULATER
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 54,204
Likes: 180
From: S.W. Ohio. . . . . . NRA Life Member
Originally Posted by Chuck CoW
Hey man.....
don't waste your time with hand helds....They do very little....almost nothing.
don't waste your time with hand helds....They do very little....almost nothing.
I totally disagree.
With my Predator, I:
changed the fan settings,
firmed up my A4 shifts.
quickened the shifts
Reprogramed the WOT shift points after a rear axle ratio change
removed torque management
Tuned my AFR (using an Innovate WB sensor setup)
tested for spark knock
Monitored IAT temps
and have used it on many other vehicles for fault code diagnostics.
Stock 02 C5 A4with these following mods:
*3.42 rear ratio (still using stock TC and factory tires)
*Predator changes
*Z06 air bix lid
*drop-in K&N OEM -type- filter
I can make changes at-will... running one program on the street, and another at the track (all without making an appointment and possibly paying more fees).
For me, the only difference between the Predator and a dyno tune is that Diablosport got my money, and the local tune-shop didn't.
I do agree that with a manual shift C5, there isn't as much to gain with a handheld programer.
Burning Brakes
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,171
Likes: 2
From: foley al
Originally Posted by Mike Mercury
I totally disagree.
With my Predator, I:
changed the fan settings,
firmed up my A4 shifts.
quickened the shifts
Reprogramed the WOT shift points after a rear axle ratio change
removed torque management
Tuned my AFR (using an Innovate WB sensor setup)
tested for spark knock
Monitored IAT temps
and have used it on many other vehicles for fault code diagnostics.
Stock 02 C5 A4with these following mods:
*3.42 rear ratio (still using stock TC and factory tires)
*Predator changes
*Z06 air bix lid
*drop-in K&N OEM -type- filter
I can make changes at-will... running one program on the street, and another at the track (all without making an appointment and possibly paying more fees).
For me, the only difference between the Predator and a dyno tune is that Diablosport got my money, and the local tune-shop didn't.
I do agree that with a manual shift C5, there isn't as much to gain with a handheld programer.
With my Predator, I:
changed the fan settings,
firmed up my A4 shifts.
quickened the shifts
Reprogramed the WOT shift points after a rear axle ratio change
removed torque management
Tuned my AFR (using an Innovate WB sensor setup)
tested for spark knock
Monitored IAT temps
and have used it on many other vehicles for fault code diagnostics.
Stock 02 C5 A4with these following mods:
*3.42 rear ratio (still using stock TC and factory tires)
*Predator changes
*Z06 air bix lid
*drop-in K&N OEM -type- filter
I can make changes at-will... running one program on the street, and another at the track (all without making an appointment and possibly paying more fees).
For me, the only difference between the Predator and a dyno tune is that Diablosport got my money, and the local tune-shop didn't.
I do agree that with a manual shift C5, there isn't as much to gain with a handheld programer.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 5,577
Likes: 3
From: Southern Maryland Maryland
It really depends....
If you like tinkering with things and will spend the time to figure out how each table works and precisely dial in the fuel/timing than I'd buy one. I can tell you if I could have gone back and paid $500 to have my car tuned correctly I probably would have. The problem is most tuners don't do a complete tune. We have worked many hours and have over 300 tunes to perfect different tables to work with different TB/intake and cam combos. IMO, 50% of the tune is within the Air/Fuel and the timing, the other 50% is driveability and the accuracy of the tables. I've had at least 5 guys that came for a retune leaving saying that the driveability and mannors of the car was better than the stock setup but I can tell you, you can't just take a table and multiply it by x%. The PCM uses what we call compound tables where one function is based off of 4-6 tables We have over 300 different tunes on my 6 speed to determine how to make cars that shouldn't be driveable purr like a kitten.
Phil
If you like tinkering with things and will spend the time to figure out how each table works and precisely dial in the fuel/timing than I'd buy one. I can tell you if I could have gone back and paid $500 to have my car tuned correctly I probably would have. The problem is most tuners don't do a complete tune. We have worked many hours and have over 300 tunes to perfect different tables to work with different TB/intake and cam combos. IMO, 50% of the tune is within the Air/Fuel and the timing, the other 50% is driveability and the accuracy of the tables. I've had at least 5 guys that came for a retune leaving saying that the driveability and mannors of the car was better than the stock setup but I can tell you, you can't just take a table and multiply it by x%. The PCM uses what we call compound tables where one function is based off of 4-6 tables We have over 300 different tunes on my 6 speed to determine how to make cars that shouldn't be driveable purr like a kitten.
Phil
Pro
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 643
Likes: 0
From: New York
I think a professional tuner can do it much better than a hand held programmer. I have an '04 with A4, K&N air intake and Cat backs. I tuned it with a JET programmer (Stage 2 Option) and felt absolutely NOTHING! I contacted Chuck @ COW and after speaking with him, he is just SO knowledgable, I realized that a professional tune is the way to go. I live close to his shop and as soon as I have some time I am going to bring my car in for that tune. Whats great is that he will do a free retune if you opt for further mods through him, which I understand is a necessity each time you do another performance mod.