Well written and a thorough explanation. Thank you guys!!
New StopTech Technical Paper: Caliper Move-out Kits
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 485
Likes: 2
From: Charlotte NC
New StopTech Technical Paper: Caliper Move-out Kits
StopTech constantly receives questions regarding the appropriateness of using a larger brake rotor with existing stock calipers. These types of "upgrades" are typically called move-out kits, or rotor plus-sizing. We've discussed this topic with customers countless times in the past, but we've finally formalized some content on the topic. Enjoy. 
http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/St...Out%20Kits.pdf
http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/St...Out%20Kits.pdf
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,195
Likes: 25
From: Tacoma WA
An interesting read - but when it got into the max ABUs the tires can transfer to the road in stopping force i started to wonder.
If a cars tires can stop 12ABUs before breaking loose, and your factory calipers can already hit 12ABU's easily (quite easy to engage ABS) then how does a car's single shortest braking distance get any shorter by moving to a big brake kit?
The section comparing Big Brake kits stated all kinds of benefits like even pad wear, more pad options, better thermals, etc... but i didn't see it explain how the big brake kit will stop your car faster. That seems to be limited by your tires... so am i wrong to think Big Brake kits don't stop your car any faster? (On factory Runflats?)
Dan
If a cars tires can stop 12ABUs before breaking loose, and your factory calipers can already hit 12ABU's easily (quite easy to engage ABS) then how does a car's single shortest braking distance get any shorter by moving to a big brake kit?
The section comparing Big Brake kits stated all kinds of benefits like even pad wear, more pad options, better thermals, etc... but i didn't see it explain how the big brake kit will stop your car faster. That seems to be limited by your tires... so am i wrong to think Big Brake kits don't stop your car any faster? (On factory Runflats?)
Dan
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Originally Posted by LF97C5Vette
An interesting read - but when it got into the max ABUs the tires can transfer to the road in stopping force i started to wonder.
If a cars tires can stop 12ABUs before breaking loose, and your factory calipers can already hit 12ABU's easily (quite easy to engage ABS) then how does a car's single shortest braking distance get any shorter by moving to a big brake kit?
The section comparing Big Brake kits stated all kinds of benefits like even pad wear, more pad options, better thermals, etc... but i didn't see it explain how the big brake kit will stop your car faster. That seems to be limited by your tires... so am i wrong to think Big Brake kits don't stop your car any faster? (On factory Runflats?)
Dan
If a cars tires can stop 12ABUs before breaking loose, and your factory calipers can already hit 12ABU's easily (quite easy to engage ABS) then how does a car's single shortest braking distance get any shorter by moving to a big brake kit?
The section comparing Big Brake kits stated all kinds of benefits like even pad wear, more pad options, better thermals, etc... but i didn't see it explain how the big brake kit will stop your car faster. That seems to be limited by your tires... so am i wrong to think Big Brake kits don't stop your car any faster? (On factory Runflats?)
Dan
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,195
Likes: 25
From: Tacoma WA
Originally Posted by LoneStarFRC
The way I read it was that big brake kits offer the biggest advantage of reduced brake fade over repetitive stops, etc.
Yeah - it would seem thats the biggest gain.
I think i had a misconception previous to this article that Big Brake kits would actually improve your single shortest stopping distance. And thats the way other things have made it seem too... (to me...)
Dan
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,195
Likes: 25
From: Tacoma WA
Originally Posted by Silver98
Dan,
Stay with it and focus...
Bigger brakes will not stop the car in a shorter distance. Now go back and read it again. I know how to get to Washington, I spent 3 years out there. be 
... LOL
Joe
Stay with it and focus...
Bigger brakes will not stop the car in a shorter distance. Now go back and read it again. I know how to get to Washington, I spent 3 years out there. be ... LOLJoe
LOL Yeah i read through it and understood it completely. I've read advertisements for big brake kits reducing shortest stopping distances and whatnot... and this article shed some light on how much BS those can be... just typical bogus claims and i'd never really thought about it until now.
Up to this point - i just accepted that bigger rotors stop the car faster... and that was the end of it. But in reality i was just falling for the BS claims some brake companies make because the reality is the brakes can only stop the car as fast as the tires allow... period.
I just wanted to confirm with everyone else thats the case - bigger brakes alone won't stop the car any quicker... (unless of course you can't reach the physical limitations of your tires with your current brakes...)
Dan
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Originally Posted by LF97C5Vette
LOL Yeah i read through it and understood it completely. I've read advertisements for big brake kits reducing shortest stopping distances and whatnot... and this article shed some light on how much BS those can be... just typical bogus claims and i'd never really thought about it until now.
Up to this point - i just accepted that bigger rotors stop the car faster... and that was the end of it. But in reality i was just falling for the BS claims some brake companies make because the reality is the brakes can only stop the car as fast as the tires allow... period.
I just wanted to confirm with everyone else thats the case - bigger brakes alone won't stop the car any quicker... (unless of course you can't reach the physical limitations of your tires with your current brakes...)
.
Dan
Up to this point - i just accepted that bigger rotors stop the car faster... and that was the end of it. But in reality i was just falling for the BS claims some brake companies make because the reality is the brakes can only stop the car as fast as the tires allow... period.
I just wanted to confirm with everyone else thats the case - bigger brakes alone won't stop the car any quicker... (unless of course you can't reach the physical limitations of your tires with your current brakes...)
.
Dan
Try your stock brakes 3 times form 150-0 let me know if a better setup either just bigger rotors or calipers and rotors stops better. Your stock tires will over run the brake system in 2 150-0 stops. I tried 150-0 with stock pads years ago and it was
to say the least. you will not engage the ABS at higher speeds.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,195
Likes: 25
From: Tacoma WA
Originally Posted by John Shiels
Try your stock brakes 3 times form 150-0 let me know if a better setup either just bigger rotors or calipers and rotors stops better. Your stock tires will over run the brake system in 2 150-0 stops. I tried 150-0 with stock pads years ago and it was to say the least. you will not engage the ABS at higher speeds.
to say the least. you will not engage the ABS at higher speeds.I just put new Rotors and Pads on my car 5 days ago... I won't be trying any 150-0 stops conescutively... lol I bet it would fade like mad! Crazy stuff...
I was just talking specific to single best stopping performance. Maybe i confused people with how i worded thigns.
I said wonder not wander so i was not confused by the article at all - it just got me thinking (wondering) on something i read eariler.
I had read somewhere performance numbers from some brake companies and some of them claimed large reductions in single shortest stopping distance for a c5 with ONLY their Big Brake kit... so i was just asking if what i thought was true. What i thought of course being "big brake kits do not stop your car faster in single shortest distance"
It's been confirmed thanks - sorry for any confusion.
Dan
Edit: I also understand John that in the case of 150mph to 0 a bigger kit will not be overrun by the tires as easily - so it would improve the single shortest stopping distance. I'm thinking from what i considered the industry standard distance of 60 or 70 to 0...
Last edited by LF97C5Vette; Jul 18, 2006 at 06:37 PM.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 485
Likes: 2
From: Charlotte NC
LF97C5Vette,
You're all over it, in it, and on top of it...exactly.
You can't imagine how many times I try to explain to people that you aren't going to see massive reductions in stopping distance by putting on a BBK. Those claims by other manufacturers are not supported by physics, and hence they are BS. Tires stop the car. Brakes turn kinetic energy into thermal energy.
When we do track testing, we can sometimes see a few feet of stopping disance improvement. There's usually not much left on the table however, with all else held equal (tires, etc.). Now, if you take rotor temps after a series of 10 100-0 stops, you are going to see the benefits of a BBK. Also, the time to do work is reduced through efficiency in a fixed caliper system. You will see a reduction in the time it takes from your foot to move on the pedal to the time it takes for the calipers to squeeze the rotor...everything is stiffer and less compliant in the system...this also translates to the feeling of confidence and 'quicker' or 'shorter' stopping.
You're all over it, in it, and on top of it...exactly.
You can't imagine how many times I try to explain to people that you aren't going to see massive reductions in stopping distance by putting on a BBK. Those claims by other manufacturers are not supported by physics, and hence they are BS. Tires stop the car. Brakes turn kinetic energy into thermal energy.When we do track testing, we can sometimes see a few feet of stopping disance improvement. There's usually not much left on the table however, with all else held equal (tires, etc.). Now, if you take rotor temps after a series of 10 100-0 stops, you are going to see the benefits of a BBK. Also, the time to do work is reduced through efficiency in a fixed caliper system. You will see a reduction in the time it takes from your foot to move on the pedal to the time it takes for the calipers to squeeze the rotor...everything is stiffer and less compliant in the system...this also translates to the feeling of confidence and 'quicker' or 'shorter' stopping.
