Traction Control Module Question
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,227
Likes: 15
St. Jude Donor '06
Traction Control Module Question
Turbosixx and myself are trying to figure out a couple things with his car (this might seem strange since he is in LA and i am in MI but hey what the hell). Anyway, this is what weve learned so far:
1. We went into the diagonostic mode through the DIC and we have no comm. with the traction control module.
2. The traction control light on his cluster is lit all the time regardless
3. Hitting the traction control button does nothing (the button is connected to the wire harness)
4. #2 and #3 both make sense because of #1
how the hell do you lose comm with the EBTCM? When he tries a burnout at the strip, the car acts as if the TC is engaging (the car stalls). so how do you lose comm with the system but the system itself still works? seems like its getting the proper power (so that the system works), but that the communications from the ebtcm and something else are not working...
Next problem
5. His tire pressure system isnt working
6. the sensors in the wheels could be dead, not sure yet
7. we get to the TIRE TRAINING part, but when we hit reset nothing happens (it should say front lh tire learn...bla bla bla)
8. could #7 somehow linked to #1
9. could #7 somehow be linked to dead batteries in the wheel sensors?
remember, 97s dont have Active handling.
Show us what the forum is made of!
1. We went into the diagonostic mode through the DIC and we have no comm. with the traction control module.
2. The traction control light on his cluster is lit all the time regardless
3. Hitting the traction control button does nothing (the button is connected to the wire harness)
4. #2 and #3 both make sense because of #1
how the hell do you lose comm with the EBTCM? When he tries a burnout at the strip, the car acts as if the TC is engaging (the car stalls). so how do you lose comm with the system but the system itself still works? seems like its getting the proper power (so that the system works), but that the communications from the ebtcm and something else are not working...
Next problem
5. His tire pressure system isnt working
6. the sensors in the wheels could be dead, not sure yet
7. we get to the TIRE TRAINING part, but when we hit reset nothing happens (it should say front lh tire learn...bla bla bla)
8. could #7 somehow linked to #1
9. could #7 somehow be linked to dead batteries in the wheel sensors?
remember, 97s dont have Active handling.
Show us what the forum is made of!
Last edited by Stealthy4; Jul 19, 2006 at 11:07 PM.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 40,982
Likes: 9,735
From: Charlotte, NC (formerly Endicott, NY)
Originally Posted by Stealthy4
1. We went into the diagonostic mode through the DIC and we have no comm. with the traction control module.
Is there some sort of a code? U1016 may not mean anything. Depending on the VIN there was a TSB published in 2002:
DIC Onboard Diagnostics Show DTCs U1016, U1064 and U1096 in History.
When servicing the vehicle with the VIN you entered, the following diagnosis might be helpful if the vehicle exhibits the described symptoms.
Condition/Concern:
DTCs U1016, U1064 and U1096 may be present when scrolling through the onboard diagnostics via the instrument cluster Driver Information Center (DIC).
Recommendation/Instructions:
This is a normal software function as long as the DTCs have a history status upon ignition cycling. No repair attempts should be made.
2. The traction control light on his cluster is lit all the time regardless
If you have a valid U1016 or U1255 this would happen. TCS would be turned off and the TCS light would be turned on while ABS is left operational. By the way is ABS operational? Easy enough to test. Just get up to 30 mph and jam the brake on. Also should hear ABS do its self test when the car is first driven.
3. Hitting the traction control button does nothing (the button is connected to the wire harness)
4. #2 and #3 both make sense because of #1
how the hell do you lose comm with the EBTCM? When he tries a burnout at the strip, the car acts as if the TC is engaging (the car stalls). so how do you lose comm with the system but the system itself still works? seems like its getting the proper power (so that the system works), but that the communications from the ebtcm and something else are not working...
First thing to do is to check the following:
Poor mating of connector halves or backed out terminals
Improperly formed or damaged terminals
Wire chafing
Poor wire to terminal connections
Dirty or corroded terminals
Damage to connector bodies
Next problem
5. His tire pressure system isnt working
6. the sensors in the wheels could be dead, not sure yet
7. we get to the TIRE TRAINING part, but when we hit reset nothing happens (it should say front lh tire learn...bla bla bla)
When this happens you have to go to IPC diagnostic system check.
8. could #7 somehow linked to #1
No
9. could #7 somehow be linked to dead batteries in the wheel sensors?
No. I ran my 97 with no sensors and was able to access the system.
remember, 97s dont have Active handling.
Show us what the forum is made of!
Is there some sort of a code? U1016 may not mean anything. Depending on the VIN there was a TSB published in 2002:
DIC Onboard Diagnostics Show DTCs U1016, U1064 and U1096 in History.
When servicing the vehicle with the VIN you entered, the following diagnosis might be helpful if the vehicle exhibits the described symptoms.
Condition/Concern:
DTCs U1016, U1064 and U1096 may be present when scrolling through the onboard diagnostics via the instrument cluster Driver Information Center (DIC).
Recommendation/Instructions:
This is a normal software function as long as the DTCs have a history status upon ignition cycling. No repair attempts should be made.
2. The traction control light on his cluster is lit all the time regardless
If you have a valid U1016 or U1255 this would happen. TCS would be turned off and the TCS light would be turned on while ABS is left operational. By the way is ABS operational? Easy enough to test. Just get up to 30 mph and jam the brake on. Also should hear ABS do its self test when the car is first driven.
3. Hitting the traction control button does nothing (the button is connected to the wire harness)
4. #2 and #3 both make sense because of #1
how the hell do you lose comm with the EBTCM? When he tries a burnout at the strip, the car acts as if the TC is engaging (the car stalls). so how do you lose comm with the system but the system itself still works? seems like its getting the proper power (so that the system works), but that the communications from the ebtcm and something else are not working...
First thing to do is to check the following:
Poor mating of connector halves or backed out terminals
Improperly formed or damaged terminals
Wire chafing
Poor wire to terminal connections
Dirty or corroded terminals
Damage to connector bodies
Next problem
5. His tire pressure system isnt working
6. the sensors in the wheels could be dead, not sure yet
7. we get to the TIRE TRAINING part, but when we hit reset nothing happens (it should say front lh tire learn...bla bla bla)
When this happens you have to go to IPC diagnostic system check.
8. could #7 somehow linked to #1
No
9. could #7 somehow be linked to dead batteries in the wheel sensors?
No. I ran my 97 with no sensors and was able to access the system.
remember, 97s dont have Active handling.
Show us what the forum is made of!
Bill
Last edited by Bill Dearborn; Jul 20, 2006 at 02:52 AM.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,227
Likes: 15
St. Jude Donor '06
Originally Posted by Bill Dearborn
There are at least 3 long diagnostic tables in the service manual for the TCS issue and at least 2 for the TPM issue. Can't put them in this answer since they don't display well. Like the screwed up highlighting above.
Bill
Bill
When we access the diagnostic area in the DIC and it comes to the TCS section: it simply says No Comm. You cant pull any codes from the module period.
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,384
Likes: 8
From: Southwest Virginia
Just because your getting "NO COMM" it don't mean you have any problems with the EBTCM. But very likely you do. Not only does the EBTCM talk to the PCM on the class 2 OBDII data wire, it also talks to each other on two other wires. There is a signal feed from the PCM to the EBTCM which the PCM tells the EBTCM how much power the engine is putting out. There is another wire feeding a signal back to the PCM from the EBTCM indicating how much power the TCS is requesting. Normally the TCS requests 100% power, when you start to spin the TCS will request less power from the PCM. These two wire us a PWM (Pulse Width Modulation) signal to indicate the status or request. With this type of signal the PCM or EBTCM can sense extremely quickly what the other module is telling or asking for. With a serial data line like the OBDII line it takes a long time to send all the data across the line, the other modules have to receive all the data bits them put them all together just to see what they need to know. With the PWM signal the modules can receive changes thousands of times per second. This is why there is three types of data sent between the modules. Now back to your problem with the "NO COMM". Your TCS system could still be working fine even with that message. All that message is telling you is the IPC does not have communication with the EBTCM on the OBDII wire. This could be caused by a couple things. Obviously you will get that message if the EBTCM module itself is not talking, or if there is a problem with the wiring between the EBTCM and the star buss connector where all the data buss wires connect together. It is possible that the EBTCM could be hearing on the buss but not talking. It is possible (but not likely) that the traction control button is working but you see no feedback. I would first look at the connection at the EBTCM. Pull the connector off the module and check for corrosion or any other problems. It is fairly hard to check the class 2/OBDII data signal with a voltmeter. The line will normally sit at 0VDC and will be pulled to around 7.5VDC by any modules that is talking on the buss. It is pulled up for a very short time making it hard to read with a voltmeter. If you don't find any problem with the connector then the best thing would be to check the ohms between the connector on the EBTCM to the rest of the data buss. I don't have a pin out in front of me but I can round one up if you need one.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,227
Likes: 15
St. Jude Donor '06
Originally Posted by SpeedyZ
Just because your getting "NO COMM" it don't mean you have any problems with the EBTCM. But very likely you do. Not only does the EBTCM talk to the PCM on the class 2 OBDII data wire, it also talks to each other on two other wires. There is a signal feed from the PCM to the EBTCM which the PCM tells the EBTCM how much power the engine is putting out. There is another wire feeding a signal back to the PCM from the EBTCM indicating how much power the TCS is requesting. Normally the TCS requests 100% power, when you start to spin the TCS will request less power from the PCM. These two wire us a PWM (Pulse Width Modulation) signal to indicate the status or request. With this type of signal the PCM or EBTCM can sense extremely quickly what the other module is telling or asking for. With a serial data line like the OBDII line it takes a long time to send all the data across the line, the other modules have to receive all the data bits them put them all together just to see what they need to know. With the PWM signal the modules can receive changes thousands of times per second. This is why there is three types of data sent between the modules. Now back to your problem with the "NO COMM". Your TCS system could still be working fine even with that message. All that message is telling you is the IPC does not have communication with the EBTCM on the OBDII wire. This could be caused by a couple things. Obviously you will get that message if the EBTCM module itself is not talking, or if there is a problem with the wiring between the EBTCM and the star buss connector where all the data buss wires connect together. It is possible that the EBTCM could be hearing on the buss but not talking. It is possible (but not likely) that the traction control button is working but you see no feedback. I would first look at the connection at the EBTCM. Pull the connector off the module and check for corrosion or any other problems. It is fairly hard to check the class 2/OBDII data signal with a voltmeter. The line will normally sit at 0VDC and will be pulled to around 7.5VDC by any modules that is talking on the buss. It is pulled up for a very short time making it hard to read with a voltmeter. If you don't find any problem with the connector then the best thing would be to check the ohms between the connector on the EBTCM to the rest of the data buss. I don't have a pin out in front of me but I can round one up if you need one.
Burning Brakes
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 813
Likes: 2
From: Norco La.
Thanks guys for helping me out. I did have a connector at the module that didn't look right so I changed it out. I think the connection should be good. Not 100% sure, because I could have missed something. I'll check it again later on this evening.
I don't know if the TC is working or not. I've heard some cars will spin with tc on. It'll spin until it hooks if I stomp it from a stop. I'm thinking 30-50 ft, then spin again when it shifts to second. So if that's the case then is my TC on or off?
I don't know if the TC is working or not. I've heard some cars will spin with tc on. It'll spin until it hooks if I stomp it from a stop. I'm thinking 30-50 ft, then spin again when it shifts to second. So if that's the case then is my TC on or off?
Tech Contributor
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 40,982
Likes: 9,735
From: Charlotte, NC (formerly Endicott, NY)
The 97s TC interfered quite quickly although if you could get both rear wheels to slip at the same time it would allow enough wheel spin that you could go 30 to 50 ft with the wheels just spinning lightly. If you can find a spot where you can put one wheel on a less than ideal traction surface and the other on dry pavement you should be able to tell quite quickly. Pop the clutch so the tire on the slippery surface spins. If the power drops almost immediately and the car seems like it is going to stall TC is operational. If you do not have such a place swap the front and rear wheels and try driving the car. TC will interrupt pretty quickly and cut power and put on the rear brakes. I have done this coasting down a hill in nuetral and the car will actually slow down as TC applies the rear brakes.
Bill
Bill
Tech Contributor
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 32,910
Likes: 2,396
From: Anthony TX
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
On a 97 C5,, TC and Anti Lock braking system should both fail if there is something wrong with the EBTCM. Test the brakes to see if you have a working antilock brake function. Its best to do it on a wet surface ( Its easier on the system and tires and you have less of a chance on flat spotting your tires). You should not be able to skid if the anti lock function is good.
If you antilock system is working, that will provide some more clews. Your EBTCM is "REAR MOUNTED" on the back of the differential. There is a single GROUND WIRE that grounds the module and pump motor to the chassis. Look on drivers side of the Pump modulator valve for the pump motor. There will be a single stud with a single wire and two nuts. The EBTCM system is chassis grounded at chassis ground G-402 which is located on the passengers sid of the car. That ground stud is on the outboard side of the passengers rear frame rail between the tire and the plastic inner fender well. Its only used on 97 and early 98 C5 with rear mounted EBTCMs. It will be empty and have a rubber sleeve over it on late 98 and up C5's
I recommend making sure that that ground is good. Measure from the motor metal body to a clean shiny spot some where on the frame with an ohm meter. You should get 0-maybe 1 ohm at the most. If it is high, clean those connections! You can also read from the motor case negative post to the negative terminal of the battery to see if your ground system is 100%
Be careful with the connections. Soak them well with PB Blaster or WD-40 or they will break off! The double nut on the motor is tricky!!! The nut that is against the motor MUST be held stationary with a wrench while you remove the outer nut the remove the ground wire eyelet. if you fail to hold the inner nut, you will ruin the motor!
I have tons of pics at home and will post them later when I get home from work. If you have questions, please let me know.
BC
If you antilock system is working, that will provide some more clews. Your EBTCM is "REAR MOUNTED" on the back of the differential. There is a single GROUND WIRE that grounds the module and pump motor to the chassis. Look on drivers side of the Pump modulator valve for the pump motor. There will be a single stud with a single wire and two nuts. The EBTCM system is chassis grounded at chassis ground G-402 which is located on the passengers sid of the car. That ground stud is on the outboard side of the passengers rear frame rail between the tire and the plastic inner fender well. Its only used on 97 and early 98 C5 with rear mounted EBTCMs. It will be empty and have a rubber sleeve over it on late 98 and up C5's
I recommend making sure that that ground is good. Measure from the motor metal body to a clean shiny spot some where on the frame with an ohm meter. You should get 0-maybe 1 ohm at the most. If it is high, clean those connections! You can also read from the motor case negative post to the negative terminal of the battery to see if your ground system is 100%
Be careful with the connections. Soak them well with PB Blaster or WD-40 or they will break off! The double nut on the motor is tricky!!! The nut that is against the motor MUST be held stationary with a wrench while you remove the outer nut the remove the ground wire eyelet. if you fail to hold the inner nut, you will ruin the motor!
I have tons of pics at home and will post them later when I get home from work. If you have questions, please let me know.
BC
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Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,073
Likes: 4
From: Official Misfit Cooler Owner
Cruise-In III Veteran
Cruise-In IV Veteran
Some great info in this thread. I am also having trouble with my EBTCM. I keep throwing these codes. P1571 and C1277
My car keeps throwing these two codes at the same time. Comes up with Service Traction Control and these are the two current codes. I can reset them and a couple days later it happens again. When condition exist the car runs super rich.
Is this a sign my EBTCM is going out? It is a 98 C5.
My car keeps throwing these two codes at the same time. Comes up with Service Traction Control and these are the two current codes. I can reset them and a couple days later it happens again. When condition exist the car runs super rich.
Is this a sign my EBTCM is going out? It is a 98 C5.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 32,910
Likes: 2,396
From: Anthony TX
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
Originally Posted by John's vette
Some great info in this thread. I am also having trouble with my EBTCM. I keep throwing these codes. P1571 and C1277
My car keeps throwing these two codes at the same time. Comes up with Service Traction Control and these are the two current codes. I can reset them and a couple days later it happens again. When condition exist the car runs super rich.
Is this a sign my EBTCM is going out? It is a 98 C5.
My car keeps throwing these two codes at the same time. Comes up with Service Traction Control and these are the two current codes. I can reset them and a couple days later it happens again. When condition exist the car runs super rich.
Is this a sign my EBTCM is going out? It is a 98 C5.
John
I have more questions than answers right now:
1. Is your car a Front or rear mounted EBTCM?
2. How how know or why do you think it runs rich when those codes happen??
3. Is your car stock or modified?
4. Are there any other codes in any other modules?
5. Are you using the C5 Diagnostic system to pull up the codes or a scanner?
Answer those questions and I will see if I can provide you the answer that you need to get her well again.
BC
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,073
Likes: 4
From: Official Misfit Cooler Owner
Cruise-In III Veteran
Cruise-In IV Veteran
Originally Posted by Bill Curlee
John
I have more questions than answers right now:
1. Is your car a Front or rear mounted EBTCM?
2. How how know or why do you think it runs rich when those codes happen??
3. Is your car stock or modified?
4. Are there any other codes in any other modules?
5. Are you using the C5 Diagnostic system to pull up the codes or a scanner?
Answer those questions and I will see if I can provide you the answer that you need to get her well again.
BC
I have more questions than answers right now:
1. Is your car a Front or rear mounted EBTCM?
2. How how know or why do you think it runs rich when those codes happen??
3. Is your car stock or modified?
4. Are there any other codes in any other modules?
5. Are you using the C5 Diagnostic system to pull up the codes or a scanner?
Answer those questions and I will see if I can provide you the answer that you need to get her well again.
BC
2 - It blows smoke out like a mesquito fogger, and blows raw fuel out the back. It will also buck really bad in low RPM range.
3 - It has small cam (226/230) and headers. Work done about 2 years ago by Mike Norris Motorsports and I have put about 25k on it since then.
4 - No other codes
5 - I am pulling up the codes via the DIC and can hold down reset to clear them and the car will start to run better almost instantly.
I took it down to Mike Norris and it ran great the entire week they had it. They inspected and cleaned the grounds but within a week of getting back home it started up again. They checked the fuel trims and everything was perfect.
