Kumho MX KU15
Toyo T1R
I've narrowed it down to these two. Price wise they are within a few dollars. Anybody run these that can give me some insight? I heard that the Toyos can be a little spongey with some understeer in the turns, but that was with the T1S. The write ups say they stiffened the side walls in the upgraded T1R which could add noise. I do alot of canyon carving so I'm looking at how these tires handle the twisties under "spirted driving" Hows the tire noise level compare between the two? Not compared with the run flats I know they will be quieter than those . I'm gonna jump soon the run flat rears are all but gone with a whopping 13,000 miles on them. At around $350-$400 a pop with their crappy traction and stickeyness which was finished at about 5,000 miles, I can get some stickey Non runflats a tire kit and make use of my AAA card for a lot less. I know stickey means soft and soft means quicker wear but I didn't get s#it for miles on the RFs. The Toyos and Kumhos tires go for around $200 for the rears, $700 for the set. I figure on about a set a year. At 1/2 the price of the runflats what do I have to loose?

 

Well, lets look at how they did recently in a very thorough test of the best:

According to a recent edition of Car & Driver:

Although they used "only" a 325 BMW as a test mule, you are very likely to experience similar results with your C5. To minimize variables such as driving techniques, track surface temps, etc, C&D enlisted the help of the Tire Rack and their test mule vehicle. Although the track used was small, it's lined with sprinklers that can soak the asphalt. "It took three days to perform all the tests. We accerated to 50 mph and then braked to a standstill. There was a benefit to that lower speed: It ensured that we were measuring the braking performance of the tires and not just brake fade."

"In addition to factoring the wet and dry scores, we gave points based on a tires's price and tread-wear grade, which is a rough estimate of how long a tire will have usable tread." "Our test focused on measuring performance, so we decided that results in the dry-lateral grip, for example - would carry the most weight."

So, without further adeau, here're the results:

(Best to worst):

NUMBER 1: Goodyear GSD3: "As an all-around performance tire, you can't beat this Goodyear. It was the best performer in all three wet-track tests and was very competent in the dry. It generated .94g on the dry skidpad, only .01g off the first place (dry) BFGoodrich and tied with the Yokohama and Hankook.
The Goodyear gripped so well, that you might not have been certain that the road was wet. It held onto the wet track with .82g of stick, an impressive figure considering the worst tire in that test made only .67g.
...And like the Continental, the Goodyear had a high 280 trad-wear grade. At $145, ieach, it's $34 cheaper than the most expensive (guess which tires have THAT distinction!).

2nd place: Continental ContiSportContact 2: "It simply didn't feel as sporty as the others.....on dry surfaces, the Conti never rose above third from last among 11 tires. It felt soft and imprecise. But in the wet, the spread from best to worse was 15 percent, which made for a larger point spread (giving the Contis a boost). Plus the Continental had a 280tread-wear grade that was the highest (tied) for this test.

3rd place: Yokohama Advan Neova AD07: Excellent dry performance, but a bit on the slippery end in the wet stuff - expensive at $175 apiece.

4th place: Michelin Pilot Sport PS2: "At $179, the PS2 is the most expensive tire in the test." Competent, but expensive sums up this tire.

5th place: Hankook Ventus R-S2 Z212: At $99 each, these are the least expensive tires - very good on dry pavement, but "greasy and slow to recover" on the wet stuff.

6th place: Dunlop SP Sport Max: "In the dry, the tire seemed to lose its confidence..."

7th place: Pirelli P Zero Rosso Asimmetrico:"In the dry-lateral-grip test, the Pirelli tied for second to last, and it finished seventh in the dry-braking test.

8th place: Toyo Proxes T1R: "...the Proxes never placed higher than eighth in any test"...nuff said!

9th place: Bridgestone Potenza RE050A: "it felt dull and disconnected and was somewhat soft and imprecise when driven hard."

10th place: BFGoodrich g-Force T/A KD: Outstanding performance on dry surfaces, but very scary on wet surfaces - don't get caught in a rainstorm wearing these shoes...

11th place: Kumho Ecsta MX: "They didn't offer much grip and the time of 30.28 seconds in the dry autocross was .62 second slower than the fastest tire. That may not seem like much, but our course was only 0.3 mille long, and on a longer track, that gap would be commensurately greater." "And although the MX - at $136 per - was the third-least-expensive tire in our test, the high score in the price category wasn't enough to regain ground lost in the performance tests."

I suggest that you think again about your choices, Vinny!

Best regards,

Dave

 

What are you running on yours Dave?

 

Vinny, I run the tires that came in first place - Goodyear GSD3s.

 

I run them and am very happy with them. It was a night/day difference between the T1Rs and the runflats. I could tell a difference immediately. They are much quieter than the runflats. Immeasurably smoother. Traction is good - if you heat them up, traction is excellent.

Very predictable in the turns and I feel extremely safe driving in the rain - the runflats were nu predictable and I couldn't stand rainy days. The T1Rs do their job very well and the price is right.

The review above is not very helpful. Had I gone by the review, I would have never bought these tires. Buying these tires cost less than half the GYs and the performance in my opinion has been great.

The kicker was that I purchased them at Les Schwab and about 4 months after I bought the tires, I ran over a large piece of metal that sliced deeply into the tire. Les Schwab replaced it, not even a question asked.

If however, you are looking for a stiff sidewall, this is not the tire. I am not saying it is spongy, but it is nowhere near as stiff as the runflats.

Here's a personal example of the performance difference. With the runflats, I could not floor it from a launch. 1 and 2 were worthless. With the T1Rs and a nice burnout, I can often stick all the way through first, and every time through the 1-2 shift. There's no way I could have ever done that with the runflats.

I am not trying to sell you on the tires, just giving a real world experience. The money savings alone is a great feature. The performance, in my opinion is pretty darned good.

 

I have had the T1R's on mine for about 5000 miles and they work for me in the dry or wet. But you know what is said about opinions~~~~.

 

I had seen the C&D report and rather than think of it as first through through last I saw it as 1st through 11th. There are a lot of tires out there that weren't even mentioned like the runflats, Super Cars, Nittos ect. The report deals with a smaller tire on the BMW the price for some of those tires in the Vette size is about double. You never hear this here, but price to me is a big factor.TTT

 

Kumho MX are excellent bang for the buck.

I don't think you can go wrong with the Toyos either.

Both are a huge improvement in feel/noise over stock.

 

Toyo T1's work great in the florida rain. I did notice a spongy feel but actually liked it as compared to the GYSC's that were worn out. I'm happy with them for the price ($800) in Z06 size. The GYGSD3 sounds like a great tire & will be my next choice.

 

Question - guys I'm switching over to Hotchkis sway bars and Bilstein sport shocks for a good reason, to have a more stable, planted ride. My set up is going to be much stiffer than the standard C5, and even stiffer than the Z06. So the question is how would a spongy tire work with my set up? YES ? NO ?..... Anyone using Toyo 1R with a upgraded (stiffer) suspension.. ? Plz chime..

 

I had Kumho's on my 89 vert and they were excellent traction street tires for the money. Never had Toyo's so can't compare but I will say that Kumho makes a darn good tire for the money. Soft with good grip, good traction.

 

Yes, you can set aside any prices mentioned in the article, but really, skimping on tires because you're low on money is like installing Monroe shocks because you can't afford Bilsteins. IMO, a Corvette deserves tires that last more than 15,000 miles and will not let you down during a sudden downpour. The Kumhos are downright slippery on wet roads and according to Car & Driver:

"It was tricky driving the Kumho in the wet, however, because once the tire started sliding, it took seemingly forever to recover and regain traction. Geswein determined it was simply "slippery." That behavior would have been excused if the Kumho had posted fast numbers in the dry, but it didn't. And although the MX—at $136 per—was the third-least-expensive tire in our test, the high score in the price category wasn't enough to regain ground lost in the performance tests."

Again, read the last line. What they're saying is essentially, The Kumhos are cheap, but the low cost isn't a good reason to buy them.

Got a Kia - get Kumhos; got a Corvette, stay away!

 

Don't believe everything you read those guys are in the business of selling magazines. I saw that article when I was tire shopping last year, and something seemed wrong to me. Glad I made may own decision than follow their recommendations. Sure it comforting to feel that you based a decision on what the experts said, but take a look at what you really need. If you drag race, or road race or just road trips the best tire will be different.

The Kumhos are great tires, I got the MXs. Sure, they may not be equal to some of the GoodYears, but they are definitely very good tires. Heck of a lot better than the GoodYear run flats I had on They have very good grip at the road race track, they guys on r-type tires did better but no one else. And, I have not had any problems in the rain (not so great in the snow ) So, my experience has been the opposite of the magazine sellers. While the MXs have a millage warrantee of 35k, I got < 12k, but that’s because I’m running them really hard on various road race tracks and would not expect them to last, no tire would last in those conditions. I’m buying the Kumhos again great traction, great life, fair rain tire (more than good enough for the street), and a fair price. GoodYear, you need to compete a little more.

In the future, when I get a spare set of wheels I may go with the GoodYears for my street tires, but now that they are doing double duty I’ll stick with the Kumhos or maybe Toyo RA1.

Can't say if the Toyo or Kumho is the best tire, I don't think you can wrong with either. I think they are very similar in construction, and have similar rubber componds. Take a look at your wheel size and make sure each has the size of tire you want to run before making the decision, not all tire sizes are made.

 

I have Kumhos on my car like them a lot. Although I never intentially drive my car in the rain, I have been caught in several hard downpours and have never had an issue. ( I do reduce my speed of course)
I now have a little more torque than the Kumhos can handle, so I am going to try the Nitto 555s on the front and the Nitto 555RIIs on the rear. Althought the magazine didn't include Nittos in the test, I listened to what the guys on this forum said about them and the heck with the magizine salesmen... I mean writers.

 

Too bad my OE GoodYears probably won't last 15,000 miles either. And I do NOT autoX, drag race, or do any kind of burnouts. Yes, I do attack corners a little bit, but at 12,000 miles, I'm almost at the tread bars. $1500 for 12,000 miles of use is a little steep!

 

I was going over tires and their mileage ratings recently with a Discount Tire employee and he pointed out that many OEM tires have low mileage ratings (if at all). Even new Michelins on some Lexus vehicles wear out before 20,000 miles. The rule of thumb when replacing OEM tires is - don't buy OEM tires!

I am often tempted to buy "Made In China" sockets, too, but I know that in the long run, my Craftsman sockets will far outlast the cheap stuff. If you are on a limited race budget and don't mind throwing away tires overy second race, then by all means, get the cheap stuff. However, make sure I'm not behind you on that mountain pass when you slide into the weeds!

 

isn't that the truth. I believe C&D about as much as I believe Consumer Reports - when it comes to anything automotive.

Just because one wears a white lab coat... doesn't necessarily mean they are an expert.

 

check out this post i made a few days ago on the T1Rs.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1459872
and for vette_fan, i am running hotchkis sways f/r, '04 Z06 shocks, Z51 springs...and soon going to LGM coil overs...i won't be using T1Rs again, i'll probably get BFG KDW2s

 

Mike, I agree with you 100% on that... however... if you go to The Tire Rack website and read the reviews of any of the tires mentioned, I think you find that the consumers (not just Tire Rack) think pretty highly of the GS D3. They have one of the highest satisfaction ratings of any of the tires for these cars. I bought a set for my '85 over a year ago after upgrading to 17" wheels, and only wish they made them in a size to fit my '73.

I happened to be following a friend in his '95 on a recent cruise when we got caught in a downpour. We were on a four lane and I had to move out from behind him because of all the water he was throwing up. There were 3 Corvettes in front of him and it was very obvious from my perspective that he was throwing up more water than any of the other Corvettes. You guessed it, he had just installed a set of GS D3's. I am very happy with mine and I can assure you my friend is as well.

Good luck with the decision... and remember the only one you really have to please is yourself.

GUSTO

 

And I'd also bet that most of us can't even tell the difference between most of the tires...