Long Tube headers vs Shortie headers
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 9,369
Likes: 4
From: Zephyrhills, Florida
St. Jude Donor '06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13
B&B shorties are worth 10 rwhp. There was a thread a member had that supported this. I've had the shorties and although I can't support 10 with dyno proof, I believe it. Gotta be B&B's though............
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 32,269
Likes: 35
From: Somewhere between mild insanity and complete psychosis
Originally Posted by HRDTOPC54FUN
Shorties are marginal over the stock manifolds, prbly not wirth the effort for most unless you live in Cali and want to stay legal.
Safety Car
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,596
Likes: 37
From: Orange County CA
My opinion (Backed up with Dyno data) is that Short tube headers are a waste of money. Click on the link to my website...and they click on Dyno Days. Look At Ted C's Z06 dyno results for Dyno day one and then look at his results (CrazyTed) for Dynoday #2. By adding Short tube headers and a polished throttle body he gained 1.5 HP....Which is within the error margin for the Dyno.
I Don't mean to hurt anyones feelings....But, The data tells the story.
Sorry,
I Don't mean to hurt anyones feelings....But, The data tells the story.
Sorry,
Safety Car
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 4,510
Likes: 240
From: Coconut Creek FL
I had shorties (B&B) on my 97 before I finally switched to LT (Kooks to be exact) The guy I bought them had them on his track car and showed me the dyno of 12RWHP from these alone. So I am not sure where the 1.5 comes in above...though if it was a Z06- I understand that stock Z06 manifolds flow better then the early model (97-99) manifolds do. I can tell you that the car (with the shorties) was louder and I could feel the increase mostly in the upper RPM range. I later added the LS6 intake and noticed a larger increase with the combo...
The long tubes- well lets face it, this is the way to go if you want the most from the exhaust...I had high flow cats and the x-pipe installed and this was a very noticable increase over the shorties...
here is the kicker- shorties cost $300 and long tubes were $1000 (both used) this does not inclued installation...
Shorties are good for the person needing to be legal in emission States - Long tubes are not...
There are a lot of guys running shorties and love them...but the ultimate step would be LT's if you can...
Shorties are not garbage, just not the most gainful solution...
The long tubes- well lets face it, this is the way to go if you want the most from the exhaust...I had high flow cats and the x-pipe installed and this was a very noticable increase over the shorties...
here is the kicker- shorties cost $300 and long tubes were $1000 (both used) this does not inclued installation...
Shorties are good for the person needing to be legal in emission States - Long tubes are not...
There are a lot of guys running shorties and love them...but the ultimate step would be LT's if you can...
Shorties are not garbage, just not the most gainful solution...
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,561
Likes: 448
From: Atlanta metro Ga.
Originally Posted by will82
Cheap shorties are marginal. The B&B have EQUAL LENGTH PRIMARIES!!! Not to mention top notch collecters and welds. And yes, they are worth about 10 to the wheels. This is without adding an x-pipe or cats, like the long-tube systems, which typically gain 25ish tothe wheels. My car with the B&B shorties and Bullets sounds better than a long-tube car with mufflers. No burnt wire worries, stock cats, all smog legal if I ever leave Florida, $950 invested total. (picked up the shorties for $450 off ebay)
Corvette Stories
The Best of Corvette for Corvette Enthusiasts
Top 10 Most Expensive Corvettes Ever Sold on Bring A Trailer
Brett Foote
10 Things Every Corvette Owner Needs (2026 Edition)
Michael S. Palmer
8 Most "Only Corvette Owners Understand" Quirks and Problems
Pouria Savadkouei
10 Reasons the C6 Z06 is Still A Performance Benchmark After 20 Years
Joe Kucinski
How Much Horsepower Every Corvette Engine "LOST" in 1972
Joe Kucinski
Top 10 DOs and DON'Ts for Protecting Your Convertible Top!
Michael S. Palmer
Top 10 Most Explosive Corvettes Ever Made: Power-to-Weight Ratio Ranked!
Joe Kucinski
150 hp to 1,250 hp: Every Corvette Generation Compared by the Specs That Matter
Joe Kucinski
8 Coolest Corvette Pace Cars (and Replicas) of All Time
Verdad Gallardo
Team Owner
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 23,682
Likes: 9
From: Flagstaff Az.
headers
Don't buy into the story that LTs cost $1000 or more. You can now get a set of Jet-Hot nickel ceramic coated LT headers for less than $650 shipped. I have a set on my vert and when it was tuned with the H/C pkg. the tuner said he couldn't see a significant difference in hp with the other long tubes. The only reason to use shorties is to pass smog tests.
Racer
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 454
Likes: 1
From: Portland Oregon
FWIW I have shortie on my 2000 with stock head, ls1 intake stock TB, ud pulley Stingers and vararam and an LG G5x3 cam and made 390 to the wheels on a mustang dyno. I am sure the shorties helped out and make the perfect sound w/out getting to loud. I make just ove 90db at the track.
Last edited by Scoundrl; Aug 28, 2006 at 11:06 AM.
Safety Car
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,596
Likes: 37
From: Orange County CA
Originally Posted by Scoundrl
FWIW I have shortie on my 2000 with stock head, ls1 intake stock TB, ud pulley Stingers and vararam and made 390 to the wheels on a mustang dyno. I am sure the shorties helped out and make the perfect sound w/out getting to loud. I make just ove 90db at the track.
WOW
Your car must be a freak of nature (and I mean that in a good way). I hosted four dynodays with 100's of corvettes...and no one ever made anywhere near those numbers with out significant modifications (Cam, heads, etc). I wish my car put out numbers like that!
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 4,501
Likes: 1
From: TAMPA BAY FL.
Originally Posted by tiojames
Don't buy into the story that LTs cost $1000 or more. You can now get a set of Jet-Hot nickel ceramic coated LT headers for less than $650 shipped. I have a set on my vert and when it was tuned with the H/C pkg. the tuner said he couldn't see a significant difference in hp with the other long tubes. The only reason to use shorties is to pass smog tests.
Advanced
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
From: San Antonio TX
My FRC has an ancient (circa 2000) MTI head/cam package, Granatelli mass air, and LS6 intake. When I bought the car it had 1 3/4" B & B shorties, Bassani x-pipe, and B & B Route 66 mufflers. It came with dyno sheets from MTI showing 402 rwhp and 375 lbs.-ft.
I recently switched out the headers and x-pipe to a set of 1 3/4" American Racing long-tubes with one of their 3" x-pipes with high-flow cats. After a conservative tune by Corey at Henderson Performance and with no other mods, the car made 421 rwhp and 398 lbs.-ft.
Different dynos, obviously, but both are the same model Superflow, and both runs were corrected for altitude, temperature, barometric pressure, and dew point.
The American Racing headers are of tremendous quality, by the way--all stainless, merge collectors, nice welds, etc. The two guys who founded ARH are former Kooks employees. At $1450 shipped the setup was not cheap, but since my car came with the B & B/Bassani stuff I'll be able to recoup some of that by selling the take-off parts. I guess it comes down to deciding if that kind of money is worth about 20 hp/20 lbs.-ft. over a comparable shorty setup.
I don't really notice any difference in sound, BTW, but I've been around a lot of open exhausts in my life so I may not be the best person to ask about that.
I recently switched out the headers and x-pipe to a set of 1 3/4" American Racing long-tubes with one of their 3" x-pipes with high-flow cats. After a conservative tune by Corey at Henderson Performance and with no other mods, the car made 421 rwhp and 398 lbs.-ft.
Different dynos, obviously, but both are the same model Superflow, and both runs were corrected for altitude, temperature, barometric pressure, and dew point.
The American Racing headers are of tremendous quality, by the way--all stainless, merge collectors, nice welds, etc. The two guys who founded ARH are former Kooks employees. At $1450 shipped the setup was not cheap, but since my car came with the B & B/Bassani stuff I'll be able to recoup some of that by selling the take-off parts. I guess it comes down to deciding if that kind of money is worth about 20 hp/20 lbs.-ft. over a comparable shorty setup.
I don't really notice any difference in sound, BTW, but I've been around a lot of open exhausts in my life so I may not be the best person to ask about that.
Last edited by SSBob; Aug 25, 2006 at 09:20 PM.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 32,269
Likes: 35
From: Somewhere between mild insanity and complete psychosis
Originally Posted by tiojames
Don't buy into the story that LTs cost $1000 or more. You can now get a set of Jet-Hot nickel ceramic coated LT headers for less than $650 shipped.
Originally Posted by tiojames
I have a set on my vert and when it was tuned with the H/C pkg. the tuner said he couldn't see a significant difference in hp with the other long tubes.
Vette magazine dyno tested my combo, b&b shorties and bullets with stock h-pipe/cats, and picked up 30rwhp w/out tuning. I believe these results, because I've test driven a car with long-tubes, random tech cats, x-pipe, and aftermarket exhaust that actually had mufflers(corsa) and it was not as loud and did not have as much pep as my car. Only difference was intake, I have a vortex and the car i drove had a blackwing w/ ice box. Of course unlike my shorties, I believe the long-tubes on this car did not have equal length primaries. They were the cheap ceramic coated kind and not LG.
Team Owner
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 23,682
Likes: 9
From: Flagstaff Az.
headers
Vette magazine dyno tested my combo, b&b shorties and bullets with stock h-pipe/cats, and picked up 30rwhp w/out tuning. I believe these results, because I've test driven a car with long-tubes, random tech cats, x-pipe, and aftermarket exhaust that actually had mufflers(corsa) and it was not as loud and did not have as much pep as my car. Only difference was intake, I have a vortex and the car i drove had a blackwing w/ ice box. Of course unlike my shorties, I believe the long-tubes on this car did not have equal length primaries. They were the cheap ceramic coated kind and not LG.[/QUOTE]
Jet-Hots headers are equal lenght 1 3/4s tubing into 3" collectors. Unlike ss which burnishes itself and looks rusty in a short time the coated headers retain there sheen, put less heat in the engine compartment. Also mild steel does not expand and contract nearly as much as ss does and will not crack as some of the ss headers have.
Jet-Hots headers are equal lenght 1 3/4s tubing into 3" collectors. Unlike ss which burnishes itself and looks rusty in a short time the coated headers retain there sheen, put less heat in the engine compartment. Also mild steel does not expand and contract nearly as much as ss does and will not crack as some of the ss headers have.
USMC (retired)
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,268
Likes: 7
From: Wimauma FL
Originally Posted by SSBob
My FRC has an ancient (circa 2000) MTI head/cam package, Granatelli mass air, and LS6 intake. When I bought the car it had 1 3/4" B & B shorties, Bassani x-pipe, and B & B Route 66 mufflers. It came with dyno sheets from MTI showing 402 rwhp and 375 lbs.-ft.
I recently switched out the headers and x-pipe to a set of 1 3/4" American Racing long-tubes with one of their 3" x-pipes with high-flow cats. After a conservative tune by Corey at Henderson Performance and with no other mods, the car made 421 rwhp and 398 lbs.-ft.
Different dynos, obviously, but both are the same model Superflow, and both runs were corrected for altitude, temperature, barometric pressure, and dew point.
The American Racing headers are of tremendous quality, by the way--all stainless, merge collectors, nice welds, etc. The two guys who founded ARH are former Kooks employees. At $1450 shipped the setup was not cheap, but since my car came with the B & B/Bassani stuff I'll be able to recoup some of that by selling the take-off parts. I guess it comes down to deciding if that kind of money is worth about 20 hp/20 lbs.-ft. over a comparable shorty setup.
I don't really notice any difference in sound, BTW, but I've been around a lot of open exhausts in my life so I may not be the best person to ask about that.
I recently switched out the headers and x-pipe to a set of 1 3/4" American Racing long-tubes with one of their 3" x-pipes with high-flow cats. After a conservative tune by Corey at Henderson Performance and with no other mods, the car made 421 rwhp and 398 lbs.-ft.
Different dynos, obviously, but both are the same model Superflow, and both runs were corrected for altitude, temperature, barometric pressure, and dew point.
The American Racing headers are of tremendous quality, by the way--all stainless, merge collectors, nice welds, etc. The two guys who founded ARH are former Kooks employees. At $1450 shipped the setup was not cheap, but since my car came with the B & B/Bassani stuff I'll be able to recoup some of that by selling the take-off parts. I guess it comes down to deciding if that kind of money is worth about 20 hp/20 lbs.-ft. over a comparable shorty setup.
I don't really notice any difference in sound, BTW, but I've been around a lot of open exhausts in my life so I may not be the best person to ask about that.
with the above. ARH is an awesome product. Along with GHL and tune I made significant improvements from baseline. Check out sig.