Brake lights out -Grounding issue?
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 36
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Brake lights out -Grounding issue?
My brake lights are completely out on my 99. Turn signals and tails work. Also my "Service Adv. Trk." light keeps coming on and then going off after engine shut down. Any thoughts? If a grounding issue, which ground point might be the one to start with? I have the C5 chart with the locations numbered on it. thanks, Scott
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 8,762
Likes: 2
From: Murphy TX
Grounds under the hood, toward the front quarter are typical. There is a plug that is actually a gnd distribution that very often corrodes.
There is a similar plug, or ground junction right behind the tail lights (inside the fascia). It does seem strange that only brake lights are out though.
Anyway, if you're checking grounds, those are the first two places I'd check.
There is a similar plug, or ground junction right behind the tail lights (inside the fascia). It does seem strange that only brake lights are out though.
Anyway, if you're checking grounds, those are the first two places I'd check.
Pro
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 548
Likes: 0
From: Webster New York
Ground ?
Sounds more like the brake light switch or fuse to me.
seems if the ground is bad the parking lights and directionals would be fubar also !!!
just my .02
Good luck keep us posted what you find
seems if the ground is bad the parking lights and directionals would be fubar also !!!
just my .02
Good luck keep us posted what you find
Drifting
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 1,917
Likes: 3
From: Southern NH
Check if all the brake lights including the center high mount brake lamp are out. The center light is on a different circuit so if it's on then that narrows the problem since the normal brake lights go through the hazard switch and the turn signal switch even for the normal brake light signal. The hazard switch is known to have problems so that's where I'd first start looking. If you pull out the hazard switch, disconnect the connector and jumper the white wire (pin 17) to the brown wire (pin 27) in the wiring harness connector that will bypass the hazard switch. If the brake lights then work it proves that the hazard switch is the problem - it's an easy fix.
If the center brake light is also out, then the problem is definitely the stoplamp switch near the brake pedal or the fuse.
The Service Traction Control light requires you to pull the DIC codes - you should have a TCS code that will point to the problem.
If the center brake light is also out, then the problem is definitely the stoplamp switch near the brake pedal or the fuse.
The Service Traction Control light requires you to pull the DIC codes - you should have a TCS code that will point to the problem.
Last edited by JC in XTC5; Sep 14, 2006 at 11:53 PM.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 41,058
Likes: 9,820
From: Charlotte, NC (formerly Endicott, NY)
Sounds like you may need to replace the brake lamp switch. Before you do that check the 20 Amp Stp/Hzd fuse to see if it needs replacement. The fuse and the switch feed the EBCM as well as the brake lights. You mentioned you have a Service TC message as well so the fuse/wiring from fuse to switch/brake light switch are the common link to the two failures. The EBCM needs the brake switch status so it can stop Traction Control if it has been activated. If both TC and the brake lights are not working the single point of failure should be the fuse, that switch or the wiring to and from it.
Almost forgot. You need to check the brake light ground in the rear also. If the ground isn't good you can get the same failure.
Bill
Almost forgot. You need to check the brake light ground in the rear also. If the ground isn't good you can get the same failure.
Bill
Last edited by Bill Dearborn; Sep 15, 2006 at 01:33 AM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 993
Likes: 5
From: Cincinnati Ohio
Cycle your 4-way hazard switch on and off several times. The brake light power flows through the switch. Defective hazard switches are known to cause the brake lights not to function. SOMETIMES cycling the switch will eliminate the problem. Good luck.
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Pro
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 508
Likes: 1
From: An Englishman drinking his way through Tewksbury MA
St. Jude Donor '09
I'm having the same problem, as of last night. The turn signals and hazard lights are working fine, but when pushing the brake pedal the center one lights up but nothing else. All four main brake lights aren't lighting up.
I've tried cycling the hazard lights a few times, but it didn't help. I've also checked the hazard light fuse which was fine, but I replaced it anyway, it didn't help. I pulled the rear passenger brake light cluster and checked the ground, no problem seen there.
What's the next step? From reading the above, I'm guessing the hazard switch replacement, but wanted to see if there is any other advice first before I pull the console again. If anyone's got a nugget of advice on something to check first, that'd be great!
Cheers,
Paul.
I've tried cycling the hazard lights a few times, but it didn't help. I've also checked the hazard light fuse which was fine, but I replaced it anyway, it didn't help. I pulled the rear passenger brake light cluster and checked the ground, no problem seen there.
What's the next step? From reading the above, I'm guessing the hazard switch replacement, but wanted to see if there is any other advice first before I pull the console again. If anyone's got a nugget of advice on something to check first, that'd be great!
Cheers,
Paul.
Pro
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 508
Likes: 1
From: An Englishman drinking his way through Tewksbury MA
St. Jude Donor '09
Well, I went ahead and took the hazard switch out, and jumped the white and brown wires together with a bit of solder. Didn't help, still only getting the center brake light working, none of the other four. Since I've got the hazard switch out, I will go ahead and replace it anyway, but it doesn't currently look to be the problem.
Is the turn signal switch the next thing to try?
Is the turn signal switch the next thing to try?
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 925
Likes: 0
From: Johnston, Iowa
Originally Posted by Watchful
Well, I went ahead and took the hazard switch out, and jumped the white and brown wires together with a bit of solder. Didn't help, still only getting the center brake light working, none of the other four. Since I've got the hazard switch out, I will go ahead and replace it anyway, but it doesn't currently look to be the problem.
Is the turn signal switch the next thing to try?
Is the turn signal switch the next thing to try?
Pro
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 508
Likes: 1
From: An Englishman drinking his way through Tewksbury MA
St. Jude Donor '09
Originally Posted by xlr8shn
Replace the turn signal stalk. Simply remove the plastic around the column and remove and replace it with a torx bit. < 1 hr IIRC...
Pro
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 508
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From: An Englishman drinking his way through Tewksbury MA
St. Jude Donor '09
Originally Posted by Watchful
Cheers, I will give it a go. Will order the part tomorrow, might get this done by Wednesday. It sucks that a turn signal stalk might be causing no brake lights. Wish I had a way to know it was the turn signal before springing $150ish on a new one, but it's still cheaper than taking it to the dealership!
I've replaced the hazard switch, the multi-function switch, checked the groundings, and replaced the fuse on the brake light circuit. The bulbs work fine when the hazard switch is flashing them, so I'm happy there. The center brake light comes on when the pedal is pressed, so I'm happy there too. What else is left to check or change? This is pissing me off now.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 22,188
Likes: 4,178
From: Kannapolis NC
Get hold of a wiring diagram, follow the power source through the brake liight switch on the pedal. Maybe there's a connection there that feeds only the brake lights. Someone else said the third light goes through a different circuit. With a diagram you can follow, it shouldn't be hard. All you need is 12V, the switch and a ground on the other end. All this is of no value to you if it goes through one of the control modules to actually activate the brake lights. Is there a seperate fuse or relay under the hood for the brake lights? Good luck.
Pro
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 508
Likes: 1
From: An Englishman drinking his way through Tewksbury MA
St. Jude Donor '09
Problem solved. 
It was a wire to the brake switch. I didn't know there were two brake switches in there, I assumed one, therefore since the centre light was working, all was well. WRONG!
There are two. One of the wires coming out of the lower switch had a bodge job on it. At some point previously the wire had broken or been cut, and some f*****g <18 cuss words deleted> cretin had just taped them together with electrical tape to solve the problem.
I would love to meet that person in a dark well-lit alley. Anyway, a proper repair later, and it's working.
I'm out $200 (hazard switch and turn signal switch) and about 6 hours so far, probably 8 hours by the time I put the bloody car back together. Nice lesson learnt. Anybody want to buy a turn signal switch? It's brand new!
It was a wire to the brake switch. I didn't know there were two brake switches in there, I assumed one, therefore since the centre light was working, all was well. WRONG!There are two. One of the wires coming out of the lower switch had a bodge job on it. At some point previously the wire had broken or been cut, and some f*****g <18 cuss words deleted> cretin had just taped them together with electrical tape to solve the problem.
I would love to meet that person in a dark well-lit alley. Anyway, a proper repair later, and it's working. I'm out $200 (hazard switch and turn signal switch) and about 6 hours so far, probably 8 hours by the time I put the bloody car back together. Nice lesson learnt. Anybody want to buy a turn signal switch? It's brand new!
Pro
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 508
Likes: 1
From: An Englishman drinking his way through Tewksbury MA
St. Jude Donor '09
Finished putting it back together again, phew. It wasn't all bad; it turned out that the top half of the steering column cover was only secured with one screw instead of two, which I took the opportunity to correct, and the centre console was only held down by three nuts instead of four. I guess someone previously doing work got tired or lost a few parts and was too lazy to do a proper job.
And since I had the A/C display out, I re-soldered that to fix the dimming problem.
And since I had the A/C display out, I re-soldered that to fix the dimming problem.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 22,188
Likes: 4,178
From: Kannapolis NC
Originally Posted by Watchful
Finished putting it back together again, phew. It wasn't all bad; it turned out that the top half of the steering column cover was only secured with one screw instead of two, which I took the opportunity to correct, and the centre console was only held down by three nuts instead of four. I guess someone previously doing work got tired or lost a few parts and was too lazy to do a proper job.
And since I had the A/C display out, I re-soldered that to fix the dimming problem.
And since I had the A/C display out, I re-soldered that to fix the dimming problem.
