Nitrous help Please ???
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,121
Likes: 3
From: Shreveport/Bossier Louisiana
St. Jude Donor '08
Nitrous help Please ???
I am installing nitrous on my 02 vette and i had a question about guages. I am getting the dual a-pillar mount to put guages and i wanted a nitrous pressure guage and an air/fuel ration guage. Now the question i have is do i need a wideband air/fuel guage or can i use the one that works with stock o2 sensors? Thanks for all your help guys !!!
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,158
Likes: 6
From: Winter Springs Fla
You need a wide band ,, its so nice to see ExAcTlY whats going on and the stock O2s suck for getting good solid readings from .
Through out the year , tempature change affects nitrous radiacly , cold weather , your gona run lean , summer , your gona run rich .
You can do a blast down the road , watch the a/f , pull over and switch out pills instead of having to pay out the butt for dyno pulls .
A wideband is probley the best safety mod out there for nitous imo .
Through out the year , tempature change affects nitrous radiacly , cold weather , your gona run lean , summer , your gona run rich .
You can do a blast down the road , watch the a/f , pull over and switch out pills instead of having to pay out the butt for dyno pulls .
A wideband is probley the best safety mod out there for nitous imo .
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,258
Likes: 0
From: Home Southern Maine
St. Jude Donor '08
The stock sensors are good sensing Lean or Rich compared to 14.6 AFR + or -, it is what they are designed to measure, these are narrow band. The wideband measures a larger range more accurately. A wideband is the way to go if your going to spray. You want to dip into the 11-12 for AFR when your spraying, and the narrow band O2's will not measure that very accurately. Spend the extra money on a wideband.
When you get your kit be sure to get a bottle heater to keep the pressure where it needs to be.
Thats a full bottle that cold (50°F that day) in the picture, spraying needs to be about 950-1000 psi
When you get your kit be sure to get a bottle heater to keep the pressure where it needs to be.
Thats a full bottle that cold (50°F that day) in the picture, spraying needs to be about 950-1000 psi
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 789
Likes: 38
From: Shreveport LA
Originally Posted by Beer99C5
The stock sensors are good sensing Lean or Rich compared to 14.6 AFR + or -, it is what they are designed to measure, these are narrow band. The wideband measures a larger range more accurately. A wideband is the way to go if your going to spray. You want to dip into the 11-12 for AFR when your spraying, and the narrow band O2's will not measure that very accurately. Spend the extra money on a wideband.
On topic get a wideband and ditch the crappy AFR gauge that people have for looks. If you want a useful gauge get a fuel pressure gauge instead.
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,258
Likes: 0
From: Home Southern Maine
St. Jude Donor '08
Originally Posted by Blue02ws6
NA or nitrous you would like to have ~13.1:1 AFR, this seems to be safe and makes great power. I hope you're not at 14.6:1 AFR.
On topic get a wideband and ditch the crappy AFR gauge that people have for looks. If you want a useful gauge get a fuel pressure gauge instead.
On topic get a wideband and ditch the crappy AFR gauge that people have for looks. If you want a useful gauge get a fuel pressure gauge instead.
All the tuners I have contacted as well as all the vendors I inquired with before I bought my kit(s) say spray at under 12 for a AFR as did the performance shop that assisted me with my installs. When playing with nitrous you want to err to the rich side, and not the lean.
I also agree that the Wideband is the way to go.
Unless you are FI and running the fuel pump near max capacity why do you need a fuel pressure gauge? I am logging my fuel pressure with just a sending unit (using EFI Live), but I am doing it because I am concerned the wet and dry hit may be putting the pump near its limits. I am spraying a 175 shot and the pump is doing fine.
The thread is on topic and explains that the AFR gauge that uses the stock o2 sensors is a narrow band gauge, and I also explain why a wideband is better at measuring the range than a narrowband gauge where spraying will take him.
Yes with the stock tune, at idle, and highway cruise, I am in the 14's for AFR. Naturally when you get to PE it drops down into the 12's or so (stock tune).
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,121
Likes: 3
From: Shreveport/Bossier Louisiana
St. Jude Donor '08
You guys are alot of help....I appreciate it all. The kit was on my brothers vette and he is selling so i am putting it on mine. He ran just the basic kit with a heater and purge and nothing ever went wrong except his clutch
but i want it to be done right. Also i have the G5x3 cam and a tune from them, will i need to get it re-tuned once i put nitrous on ??
but i want it to be done right. Also i have the G5x3 cam and a tune from them, will i need to get it re-tuned once i put nitrous on ??
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 789
Likes: 38
From: Shreveport LA
Originally Posted by 02blackbeauty19
You guys are alot of help....I appreciate it all. The kit was on my brothers vette and he is selling so i am putting it on mine. He ran just the basic kit with a heater and purge and nothing ever went wrong except his clutch but i want it to be done right. Also i have the G5x3 cam and a tune from them, will i need to get it re-tuned once i put nitrous on ??
but i want it to be done right. Also i have the G5x3 cam and a tune from them, will i need to get it re-tuned once i put nitrous on ??Corvette Stories
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Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,836
Likes: 110
From: El Paso TX.
Blue no offense but you are giving some horrible advise. 13.1 AFR on spray, no way. most people and shops tune between 11.5 and 12 while on the jug. also, telling him just to get a cool looking gauge is just plain ingnorant. do you need a wideband, no. do you want a wide band, yes. there is no way to tune your car CORRECTLY without one. and like beer said its good to know what is going on with the car.
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,121
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From: Shreveport/Bossier Louisiana
St. Jude Donor '08
I plan on spraying a 100 shot just for some extra fun !! I also plan on going and getting it Dyno tuned once i install the nitrous and i just didnt want to buy a wideband if i didnt need it because i wont be tuning the car.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,158
Likes: 6
From: Winter Springs Fla
Originally Posted by 02blackbeauty19
I plan on spraying a 100 shot just for some extra fun !! I also plan on going and getting it Dyno tuned once i install the nitrous and i just didnt want to buy a wideband if i didnt need it because i wont be tuning the car.
With only a 100 shot you should not have to adjust the timing at all and if you feel like spraying a 150 shot , run some 100 octain fuel .
If you dyno tune your car for a 100 shot of nitrous , he will MaYbE pull a degree of timing and charge you big bucks for basicly nothing , or he will pull a lot of timing and make your n/a performance suffer .
I run a 2 stage 300 shot at full n/a timing and defete any detination and timing issues with race gas , but not by retarding timing .
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 789
Likes: 38
From: Shreveport LA
Originally Posted by algZO6
Blue no offense but you are giving some horrible advise. 13.1 AFR on spray, no way. most people and shops tune between 11.5 and 12 while on the jug. also, telling him just to get a cool looking gauge is just plain ingnorant. do you need a wideband, no. do you want a wide band, yes. there is no way to tune your car CORRECTLY without one. and like beer said its good to know what is going on with the car.
I would be willing to place my title on my advise. Tuning for NA at 13.1:1 will give the guy good power all the time and if he isn't spraying a ton of juice there is no need for a strict nitrous tune. With the wet kit he will be using what do you think the fuel jets are for? As long as he can follow directions he will be fine with the amount he wants to spray. With that being said why in the hell should he invest in a wideband that he probably won't even know how to use. As a matter of fact if he gets a wideband he would need some tuning software also which I doubt he is looking to get anyway from his posts. He just wants to "feel" good about spraying his car with nitrous. I said go ahead and get the flashy gauge that is pretty much useless because that is originally what he wanted. Why not get one, he is totally safe with amount he wants to spray if he just follows the jetting specs for his kit. Now point out how I was giving bad advise and PROVE that a 13.1:1 tune with a properly jetted nitrous system would be bad for your car?
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,836
Likes: 110
From: El Paso TX.
Originally Posted by Blue02ws6
NA or nitrous you would like to have ~13.1:1 AFR, this seems to be safe and makes great power. I hope you're not at 14.6:1 AFR.
On topic get a wideband and ditch the crappy AFR gauge that people have for looks. If you want a useful gauge get a fuel pressure gauge instead.
On topic get a wideband and ditch the crappy AFR gauge that people have for looks. If you want a useful gauge get a fuel pressure gauge instead.
13.1 NA, you are absolutely correct. 13.1 nitrous, no way. what if his fuel noid does not open all the way? is his flashy gauge going to catch it? no. will a wideband? yes.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 789
Likes: 38
From: Shreveport LA
Originally Posted by algZO6
13.1 NA, you are absolutely correct. 13.1 nitrous, no way. what if his fuel noid does not open all the way? is his flashy gauge going to catch it? no. will a wideband? yes.
Last edited by Blue02ws6; Oct 10, 2006 at 09:38 PM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,158
Likes: 6
From: Winter Springs Fla
You make since but then again you dont .
You know as well as i do , he wont stick to ONLY a 100 shot , no one does and to say he dosnt need to read his A/F when spraying a 100 shot is ludicrist .
I seen an idiot melt his motor after hot lapping his car at the track on a 100 shot that ran lean .
Ive been spraying my cars since 1980 and with todays widebands , you can hook the solenoids to the wideband and have it shut off the nitrous if it gets above a set A/F .
If your gona spray a 30k+ car , may as well be safe about it .
Knowlage is power and ignorance is unacceptable when it comes to nitrous .
You know as well as i do , he wont stick to ONLY a 100 shot , no one does and to say he dosnt need to read his A/F when spraying a 100 shot is ludicrist .
I seen an idiot melt his motor after hot lapping his car at the track on a 100 shot that ran lean .
Ive been spraying my cars since 1980 and with todays widebands , you can hook the solenoids to the wideband and have it shut off the nitrous if it gets above a set A/F .
If your gona spray a 30k+ car , may as well be safe about it .
Knowlage is power and ignorance is unacceptable when it comes to nitrous .
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 789
Likes: 38
From: Shreveport LA
Originally Posted by zoomz
You make since but then again you dont .
You know as well as i do , he wont stick to ONLY a 100 shot , no one does and to say he dosnt need to read his A/F when spraying a 100 shot is ludicrist .
I seen an idiot melt his motor after hot lapping his car at the track on a 100 shot that ran lean .
Ive been spraying my cars since 1980 and with todays widebands , you can hook the solenoids to the wideband and have it shut off the nitrous if it gets above a set A/F .
If your gona spray a 30k+ car , may as well be safe about it .
Knowlage is power and ignorance is unacceptable when it comes to nitrous .
You know as well as i do , he wont stick to ONLY a 100 shot , no one does and to say he dosnt need to read his A/F when spraying a 100 shot is ludicrist .
I seen an idiot melt his motor after hot lapping his car at the track on a 100 shot that ran lean .
Ive been spraying my cars since 1980 and with todays widebands , you can hook the solenoids to the wideband and have it shut off the nitrous if it gets above a set A/F .
If your gona spray a 30k+ car , may as well be safe about it .
Knowlage is power and ignorance is unacceptable when it comes to nitrous .
Basically what I am saying is, if someone has a good NA tune and is only going to spray a modest shot 75-125 there is no need for a wideband if you follow the manufacturers directions to the tee.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,226
Likes: 3
From: Lakemoor IL
I have to agree that 13:1 is a little too lean on the spray. While on a 100 shot it probably wont hurt anything, but why risk it???
Also I have an A/F guage that reads O2 milivolts(not a wideband). Its no way as accurate as a wideband, but it gives me a good idea of where im at. Plus I only spray a 100 shot so I felt a wideband was overkill.
Noids fail to open or close. Never heard of one opening half way.
Also I have an A/F guage that reads O2 milivolts(not a wideband). Its no way as accurate as a wideband, but it gives me a good idea of where im at. Plus I only spray a 100 shot so I felt a wideband was overkill.
Noids fail to open or close. Never heard of one opening half way.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,836
Likes: 110
From: El Paso TX.
yes, it is possible for noids not to open all the way. if he has a wideband and monitors it there is a chance he will catch it, if he doesn't then his motor is done. only FI guys need a wideband? you need to get a clue. go ahead and do **** your way and keep on rolling the dice. 02, ask any of the nitrous gurus around this board and ls1tech and ask them if a wideband is a waste and you will get your answer.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,158
Likes: 6
From: Winter Springs Fla
Originally Posted by Blue02ws6
Well, yeah. If he goes bigger and does stupid **** like what you mentioned above yes you could also be a huge candidate for some more protection.
Basically what I am saying is, if someone has a good NA tune and is only going to spray a modest shot 75-125 there is no need for a wideband if you follow the manufacturers directions to the tee.
Basically what I am saying is, if someone has a good NA tune and is only going to spray a modest shot 75-125 there is no need for a wideband if you follow the manufacturers directions to the tee.
But at the same time , i blew my air bridge into little itty bitty pieces and destroyed my maf in the heat of summer in florida on stock jet settings because manufacturers tend to setup their jet settings on the rich side which is good unless your running in the dead of summer .
My bottle was low combined with rich jetting and track temp and poof ,, about 700 bucks worth of stuff was toast at 3/4 track in the blink of an eye ,, not to mention it scared the hell out of me when it backfired at 100+ mph ,, hehe
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 789
Likes: 38
From: Shreveport LA
Originally Posted by algZO6
yes, it is possible for noids not to open all the way. if he has a wideband and monitors it there is a chance he will catch it, if he doesn't then his motor is done. only FI guys need a wideband? you need to get a clue. go ahead and do **** your way and keep on rolling the dice. 02, ask any of the nitrous gurus around this board and ls1tech and ask them if a wideband is a waste and you will get your answer.
Did you not read my post, I said FI and guys that are tuning their own car. Is it nice to have a wideband...hell yeah it's really nice. Is it totally necessary for most people's setups. NO.