SAE vs. STD on the dyno
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,461
Likes: 161
From: Las Vegas Nevada
St. Jude Donor '08
SAE vs. STD on the dyno
What is the difference in SAE and STD as measured on a dynamometer? Which one do you use to compare rwhp and rwt numbers with others?
Thanks,
Clayton from Las Vegas
Thanks,
Clayton from Las Vegas
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,461
Likes: 161
From: Las Vegas Nevada
St. Jude Donor '08
Thanks,
Clayton from Las Vegas
Safety Car
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,786
Likes: 1
From: Houston TX
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 19,304
Likes: 85
From: San Diego CA
Dynojet offers a free conversion calculator that can convert raw data from one of their dynos to STD or SAE-corrected numbers. This is what I did. The dyno shop gave me the raw data on a floppy and I downloaded the Dynojet program. Just so you know, SAE numbers are approx 2% lower than STD numbers. (at least whan it comes to horsepower)
Former Vendor
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,749
Likes: 4
From: Valencia Ca
Actually, both are SAE standards.
STD the older J607 standard considers that the engine was run on a 60°F day with 0% humidity and a barometric pressure of 29.92 in-Hg or......
SAE the newer J1349 standard of 77°F (25°C) day with 0% humidity and a barometric pressure of 29.234 in-Hg (99 KPa).
Standard (J607) will report higher numbers than SAE (J1349 ).
You want a real argument - then we could discuss DYNOJET numbers vs the real world -and the fact that DynoJets are ridiculously high !
STD the older J607 standard considers that the engine was run on a 60°F day with 0% humidity and a barometric pressure of 29.92 in-Hg or......
SAE the newer J1349 standard of 77°F (25°C) day with 0% humidity and a barometric pressure of 29.234 in-Hg (99 KPa).
Standard (J607) will report higher numbers than SAE (J1349 ).
You want a real argument - then we could discuss DYNOJET numbers vs the real world -and the fact that DynoJets are ridiculously high !
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Drifting
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,566
Likes: 52
From: Colorado Springs CO
I'm getting one done tomorrow or the next day here in the Springs. I'm concerned about the temperature, since it's a bit cold but I'm curious which method they use here. Hopefully compensated for the altitude AND weather.
Actually, my plan is to get a bigger cam to compensate for the altitude and weather. Thanks for the advice, Steve, I really appreciate it!!
Actually, my plan is to get a bigger cam to compensate for the altitude and weather. Thanks for the advice, Steve, I really appreciate it!!
5th Gear
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,720
Likes: 3
From: East Hampton CT
I put down 440hp uncorrected, 420hp STD and 412 hp SAE on a dynojet on a 60 deg day with my M6 recently. I can get you the exact conditions if its relevant to you...but basically it went from 100% to 95% then to 93% with the correction factors above.
Last edited by Billdog350; Dec 26, 2006 at 08:48 AM.
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 19,304
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From: San Diego CA
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,816
Likes: 132
From: Plano TX
I like posts like this, not for me ,but for all these Folks who dyno their cars. Most people (95%) on this Forum do not post enough info when they post their horsepower numbers... Before I really knew anything about dynos I thought they were all like a scale that you weigh yourself on.. Most people probably think the same thing.. When posting rwhp dyno numbers we need...
1. Type of Dyno or Manufacturer ( Different types give different numbers)
2. Automatic or manual transmission
3. Calibration used (SAE,STD, Correction factor)..
Without this info.. Dyno Numbers are like comparing oranges to apples or meaningless all together
1. Type of Dyno or Manufacturer ( Different types give different numbers)
2. Automatic or manual transmission
3. Calibration used (SAE,STD, Correction factor)..
Without this info.. Dyno Numbers are like comparing oranges to apples or meaningless all together
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,816
Likes: 132
From: Plano TX
I like posts like this, not for me ,but for all these Folks who dyno their cars. Most people (95%) on this Forum do not post enough info when they post their horsepower numbers... Before I really knew anything about dynos I thought they were all like a scale that you weigh yourself on.. Most people probably think the same thing.. When posting rwhp dyno numbers we need...
1. Type of Dyno or Manufacturer ( Different types give different numbers)
2. Automatic or manual transmission
3. Calibration used (SAE,STD, Correction factor)..
Without this info.. Dyno Numbers are like comparing oranges to apples or meaningless all together
1. Type of Dyno or Manufacturer ( Different types give different numbers)
2. Automatic or manual transmission
3. Calibration used (SAE,STD, Correction factor)..
Without this info.. Dyno Numbers are like comparing oranges to apples or meaningless all together
Safety Car
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,786
Likes: 1
From: Houston TX
Various dyno testing and chatter from some of my contact at GMPT has placed C5 manual driveline loss in the range of 13-17% with the average at about 15%.
The problem with this number is it varies quite a bit on a per-car basis because so many different things affect it.
Some issues affecting it are:
Temperature of tires, axle and trans
Ring and pinion condition and set-up
Transmission condition
Tires
Any slip of the tires on the rollers.
type of transmission and axle lubricants
Example:
02 C5 MN6 LS1 stock rated at 350FWHP
same car on Dynojet 301RWHP
15% lose added in = 346FLHP
Pretty close and a little low compared to the factory.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,949
Likes: 10
From: Monticello MN
I like posts like this, not for me ,but for all these Folks who dyno their cars. Most people (95%) on this Forum do not post enough info when they post their horsepower numbers... Before I really knew anything about dynos I thought they were all like a scale that you weigh yourself on.. Most people probably think the same thing.. When posting rwhp dyno numbers we need...
1. Type of Dyno or Manufacturer ( Different types give different numbers)
2. Automatic or manual transmission
3. Calibration used (SAE,STD, Correction factor)..
Without this info.. Dyno Numbers are like comparing oranges to apples or meaningless all together
1. Type of Dyno or Manufacturer ( Different types give different numbers)
2. Automatic or manual transmission
3. Calibration used (SAE,STD, Correction factor)..
Without this info.. Dyno Numbers are like comparing oranges to apples or meaningless all together
Ed
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,106
Likes: 0
From: Norwich NY
I hate to say this but I feel numbers can be "manipulated" by the dyno operator to read what benifits the operator most.
At a dyno shop in the area I used to live, my buddies car dynod around 410 (dyno jet) with a heads/cam (and other stuff) and a 150 shot. Car ran an 11.1 with a "fair" 60'. Had he hooked up, he w/h been 10s for sure!
Aint gonna happen with 410 hp, 3.42 gears and a small stall.. Gotta add this is NOT a car setup to be a drag car!! Just a fun daily driver..
I am sure if this Engine/Race car/Dyno shop had built the motor, the numbers would have been much higher.
I strongly feel thats why some guys here post numbers that seem so impressive and unrealalistic!
Welcome to the real world.
JMHO
At a dyno shop in the area I used to live, my buddies car dynod around 410 (dyno jet) with a heads/cam (and other stuff) and a 150 shot. Car ran an 11.1 with a "fair" 60'. Had he hooked up, he w/h been 10s for sure!
Aint gonna happen with 410 hp, 3.42 gears and a small stall.. Gotta add this is NOT a car setup to be a drag car!! Just a fun daily driver..
I am sure if this Engine/Race car/Dyno shop had built the motor, the numbers would have been much higher.
I strongly feel thats why some guys here post numbers that seem so impressive and unrealalistic!
Welcome to the real world.
JMHO
Last edited by Fastbasser; Dec 26, 2006 at 10:46 AM.
Safety Car
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,786
Likes: 1
From: Houston TX
I hate to say this but I feel numbers can be "manipulated" by the dyno operator to read what benifits the operator most.
At a dyno shop in the area I used to live, my buddies car dynod around 410 (dyno jet) with a heads/cam (and other stuff) and a 150 shot. Car ran an 11.1 with a "fair" 60'. Had he hooked up, he w/h been 10s for sure!
Aint gonna happen with 410 hp, 3.42 gears and a small stall.. Gotta add this is NOT a car setup to be a drag car!! Just a fun daily driver..
I am sure if this Engine/Race car/Dyno shop had built the motor, the numbers would have been much higher.
I strongly feel thats why some guys here post numbers that seem so impressive and unrealalistic!
Welcome to the real world.
JMHO
At a dyno shop in the area I used to live, my buddies car dynod around 410 (dyno jet) with a heads/cam (and other stuff) and a 150 shot. Car ran an 11.1 with a "fair" 60'. Had he hooked up, he w/h been 10s for sure!
Aint gonna happen with 410 hp, 3.42 gears and a small stall.. Gotta add this is NOT a car setup to be a drag car!! Just a fun daily driver..
I am sure if this Engine/Race car/Dyno shop had built the motor, the numbers would have been much higher.
I strongly feel thats why some guys here post numbers that seem so impressive and unrealalistic!
Welcome to the real world.
JMHO
There is no way a H&C LS1 with a 150 shot is going to dyno only 410.
Former Vendor
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,749
Likes: 4
From: Valencia Ca
In order to get accurate data you need a dyno with load absorption control and measurements that are taken from a torque arm, not calculated from an inertia roller.
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,627
Likes: 143
From: Goodyear Az
It doesn't really matter if its high or low, as long as everyone uses the same measurement basis, such as:
414 rwhp, Dynojet, SAE
Because that number can be compared to other Dynojet readings as long as its also SAE corrected.
414 rwhp, Dynojet, SAE
Because that number can be compared to other Dynojet readings as long as its also SAE corrected.