Grinding going into 5th?
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Mar 2006
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Grinding going into 5th?
Hello,
I have a '99 FRC (45,000 miles) and just recently it started having trouble going into 5th. Maybe about 200 miles ago it suffered a surprising unfortunate crunch going 4th to 5th and today (don't drive the car all the time) it happened a couple more times. This car has had it's stock shifter replaced with a Ripper Shifter within a year of new.
So, my question is: can the shifter or shift linkage adjustment affect this condition? I mean, say the linkage was a little out of adjustment - could that cause the transmission to open the "I'm going into reverse" door to cause this? I'm wondering specifically whether pushing the shifter off to the right and up is catching reverse gears a bit or something. I would assume there is a "reverse lockout" preventing that when the car is moving but that's pure speculation.
Thank you for your thoughts! I LOVE my FRC and will fix it up whatever it needs. This car may be a lifer for me
Jim
I have a '99 FRC (45,000 miles) and just recently it started having trouble going into 5th. Maybe about 200 miles ago it suffered a surprising unfortunate crunch going 4th to 5th and today (don't drive the car all the time) it happened a couple more times. This car has had it's stock shifter replaced with a Ripper Shifter within a year of new.
So, my question is: can the shifter or shift linkage adjustment affect this condition? I mean, say the linkage was a little out of adjustment - could that cause the transmission to open the "I'm going into reverse" door to cause this? I'm wondering specifically whether pushing the shifter off to the right and up is catching reverse gears a bit or something. I would assume there is a "reverse lockout" preventing that when the car is moving but that's pure speculation.
Thank you for your thoughts! I LOVE my FRC and will fix it up whatever it needs. This car may be a lifer for me
Jim
Tech Contributor
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 41,020
Likes: 9,775
From: Charlotte, NC (formerly Endicott, NY)
I had this happen on my 97 and it turned out over a the space of a few years I started using too much force to shift into 5th and was overriding the reverse lockout spring. The dealer tech saw my shift into 5th and heard the gears grinding and ordered a new lockout. As it turned out when he got the old one out and compared them they acted just the same. I modified my shift into 5th and took it a little easier and the problem went away.
With an aftermarket shifter you may be doing the same. With the increased shifter force resisting your shift to the 5-6 gate you might not notice you are applying too much pressure against the lockout and getting a taste of reverse. Makes a hell of a sound doesn't it? Especially when you are shifting into 5th at about 120.
Bill
With an aftermarket shifter you may be doing the same. With the increased shifter force resisting your shift to the 5-6 gate you might not notice you are applying too much pressure against the lockout and getting a taste of reverse. Makes a hell of a sound doesn't it? Especially when you are shifting into 5th at about 120.
Bill
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Intermediate
Joined: Mar 2006
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Thanks for that Bill!
Oh, a taste of reverse (I'm becoming more convinced that is what it is) is horrifying and, of course, it is always at speed!
This is very interesting information. I had no idea that I could "override the reverse lockout spring" with arm force against the shifter pushing it to the right when going into 5th. Dang, my technique may be screwing up my 'vette!
So then, why would it all of a sudden happen after so many years? Does that spring get weaker? Or maybe the shift linkage gets sloppier? Would it be a good idea for me to get an adjustment on the linkage or am I on the wrong track with that?
What should I do now? Do you believe that if I reform my shifting technique I can live with it the way it is or do I need to have somebody look at it?
Thanks again! Cool
Jim
Oh, a taste of reverse (I'm becoming more convinced that is what it is) is horrifying and, of course, it is always at speed!
This is very interesting information. I had no idea that I could "override the reverse lockout spring" with arm force against the shifter pushing it to the right when going into 5th. Dang, my technique may be screwing up my 'vette!
So then, why would it all of a sudden happen after so many years? Does that spring get weaker? Or maybe the shift linkage gets sloppier? Would it be a good idea for me to get an adjustment on the linkage or am I on the wrong track with that?
What should I do now? Do you believe that if I reform my shifting technique I can live with it the way it is or do I need to have somebody look at it?
Thanks again! Cool
Jim
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Mar 2006
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That's interesting about the syncro too. How do I determine what the deal is? Is there a way to tell the difference between the syncro problem and this reverse lockout problem?
In thinking about my technique and how this happens I'm thinking it's likely that I push it over to the right too hard. The Ripper shifter is a firm, short throw shifter anyway and you have to push it around pretty good to get it into any gear.
Heck, maybe I should reinstall the stock shifter. Maybe this Ripper thing is bad news!
Anybody have the Ripper? What after market shifters are popular choices?
Thanks!
Jim
In thinking about my technique and how this happens I'm thinking it's likely that I push it over to the right too hard. The Ripper shifter is a firm, short throw shifter anyway and you have to push it around pretty good to get it into any gear.
Heck, maybe I should reinstall the stock shifter. Maybe this Ripper thing is bad news!
Anybody have the Ripper? What after market shifters are popular choices?
Thanks!
Jim
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,041
Likes: 4
From: Rockford Illinois
That's interesting about the syncro too. How do I determine what the deal is? Is there a way to tell the difference between the syncro problem and this reverse lockout problem?
In thinking about my technique and how this happens I'm thinking it's likely that I push it over to the right too hard. The Ripper shifter is a firm, short throw shifter anyway and you have to push it around pretty good to get it into any gear.
Heck, maybe I should reinstall the stock shifter. Maybe this Ripper thing is bad news!
Anybody have the Ripper? What after market shifters are popular choices?
Thanks!
Jim
In thinking about my technique and how this happens I'm thinking it's likely that I push it over to the right too hard. The Ripper shifter is a firm, short throw shifter anyway and you have to push it around pretty good to get it into any gear.
Heck, maybe I should reinstall the stock shifter. Maybe this Ripper thing is bad news!
Anybody have the Ripper? What after market shifters are popular choices?
Thanks!
Jim
Usually when synchro's start to go, with thime they will actually have the shifter pop out that gear. I have the ripper and have never experienced wht you are. I drive the car hard, and have since I bought it 2 years ago.
Thread Starter
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Yeah, I did change it, per some advice I got, to AMSOIL ATF synthetic. That was after the first time it happened. I was scolded for not changing the tranny oil after 30K miles. I still get the problem with the new oil.
That brings up another question though - thanks for reminding me: the oil that was removed (wasn't low) was dirty - kind of with suspended particulates. Looked almost like metal flake paint in the sun. No big chunkers but a hazy kind of thing. Is that normal or does that mean trouble?
Thanks to all!
Jim
That brings up another question though - thanks for reminding me: the oil that was removed (wasn't low) was dirty - kind of with suspended particulates. Looked almost like metal flake paint in the sun. No big chunkers but a hazy kind of thing. Is that normal or does that mean trouble?
Thanks to all!
Jim
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Pro
Joined: Jan 2005
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The metal is normal wear as long as it is not excessive.Try normal atf as the viscosity is different as well,you may have paper blocking rings which as I have heard hate synthetic.I changed to mobil 1 then changed back to normal.=way better.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 41,020
Likes: 9,775
From: Charlotte, NC (formerly Endicott, NY)
This is very interesting information. I had no idea that I could "override the reverse lockout spring" with arm force against the shifter pushing it to the right when going into 5th. Dang, my technique may be screwing up my 'vette!
So then, why would it all of a sudden happen after so many years? Does that spring get weaker? Or maybe the shift linkage gets sloppier? Would it be a good idea for me to get an adjustment on the linkage or am I on the wrong track with that?
So then, why would it all of a sudden happen after so many years? Does that spring get weaker? Or maybe the shift linkage gets sloppier? Would it be a good idea for me to get an adjustment on the linkage or am I on the wrong track with that?
Based on what the tech showed me with the old and new parts sitting beside each other on a work bench there was no difference in them. The override worked the same on both (the override is there in case the solenoid fails in the lockout position and you need to get the car into reverse). They put the old part back in and told me to take it easy on the shift and I stopped having the problem. Now on my 03Z I have the stock shifter and I use the palm of my hand on top of the shifter to sort of just toss the shifter into 5th Vs jamming it.
Bill
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 5,987
Likes: 18
From: DuBois PA
St. Jude Donor '11-'12-'13-'14-'15
That's interesting about the syncro too. How do I determine what the deal is? Is there a way to tell the difference between the syncro problem and this reverse lockout problem?
In thinking about my technique and how this happens I'm thinking it's likely that I push it over to the right too hard. The Ripper shifter is a firm, short throw shifter anyway and you have to push it around pretty good to get it into any gear.
Heck, maybe I should reinstall the stock shifter. Maybe this Ripper thing is bad news!
Anybody have the Ripper? What after market shifters are popular choices?
Thanks!
Jim
In thinking about my technique and how this happens I'm thinking it's likely that I push it over to the right too hard. The Ripper shifter is a firm, short throw shifter anyway and you have to push it around pretty good to get it into any gear.
Heck, maybe I should reinstall the stock shifter. Maybe this Ripper thing is bad news!
Anybody have the Ripper? What after market shifters are popular choices?
Thanks!
Jim
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Thanks for all the replies! A lot of good info.
I just can't reliably keep this from happening. Can anybody recommend somebody in the SF Bay Area peninsula that's good that can fix her up for me? I think it is the reverse lockout but it's gotten sloppy enough that it's too easy to scrape now for some reason.
Thanks!
Jim
P.S. anti-venom mod?
I just can't reliably keep this from happening. Can anybody recommend somebody in the SF Bay Area peninsula that's good that can fix her up for me? I think it is the reverse lockout but it's gotten sloppy enough that it's too easy to scrape now for some reason.
Thanks!
Jim
P.S. anti-venom mod?
Racer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 362
Likes: 6
From: Vero Beach FL
just had that prob
I had the tranny fluid changed and the rev. lockout sensor replaced
and it all went away, and dont let them tell you they have to take
the tranny apart to change the sensor, the dealers have a "tool" to
get to it pretty easily if they want to.
and it all went away, and dont let them tell you they have to take
the tranny apart to change the sensor, the dealers have a "tool" to
get to it pretty easily if they want to.
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 26
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Oooo, reverse lockout sensor? First I heard of that!
Can a bad one of those cause this? Wow how great would that be to replace a sensor and have this go away! Sweet!
Where should I go? I hate randomly choosing a mechanic...
Cool.
Jim
Can a bad one of those cause this? Wow how great would that be to replace a sensor and have this go away! Sweet!
Where should I go? I hate randomly choosing a mechanic...
Cool.
Jim
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 26
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This is interesting - look at the TSB I just found on the C5:
TSB #040302 -- CUSTOMERS MAY COMPLAIN OF AN INOPERATIVE REVERSE LOCKOUT, ALLOWING SHIFT TO REVERSE WHEN ATTEMPTING TO MAKE A SHIFT INTO FIFTH GEAR. *TT (NHTSA ID #636473, APRIL 03 2002)
So, this is a known problem! Do you think I can get the dealer to fix it?
Wow, this get more intriguing all the time.....
TSB #040302 -- CUSTOMERS MAY COMPLAIN OF AN INOPERATIVE REVERSE LOCKOUT, ALLOWING SHIFT TO REVERSE WHEN ATTEMPTING TO MAKE A SHIFT INTO FIFTH GEAR. *TT (NHTSA ID #636473, APRIL 03 2002)
So, this is a known problem! Do you think I can get the dealer to fix it?
Wow, this get more intriguing all the time.....
Drifting
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,715
Likes: 1
From: cAshburn VA
Um, pardon me if I am off based here, but I thought 5th and 6th were not timed/close ratio gears, and therefore, no synchros.
I also had the same problem with my stock shifter, which also spread to 3rd and 1st. The dealership said it was a bushing on the shifter, but I only trust those guys so far.
Much happier with my Hurst shifter, and none of those problems.
I also had the same problem with my stock shifter, which also spread to 3rd and 1st. The dealership said it was a bushing on the shifter, but I only trust those guys so far.
Much happier with my Hurst shifter, and none of those problems.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 6,937
Likes: 21
From: Waldorf MD
I'm all ears on this one. I started having trouble shifting into 6th gear about 6 months ago at 97,000 miles. I replaced clutch fluid, seemed to fix it, but it came back. I now just take my time going into 6th and it doesn't grind. It seems like syncros, but why would 6th gear give up before any others ? It gets used way less.I have Mobil 1 in my transmission, maybe I'll change it. BTW, I heard from a reliable source that NO C5's have paper blocker rings in them.
I'll wait until someone finds a definative fix. I thought I saw on another post that someone adjusted the linkage?
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 5,987
Likes: 18
From: DuBois PA
St. Jude Donor '11-'12-'13-'14-'15
Thanks for all the replies! A lot of good info.
I just can't reliably keep this from happening. Can anybody recommend somebody in the SF Bay Area peninsula that's good that can fix her up for me? I think it is the reverse lockout but it's gotten sloppy enough that it's too easy to scrape now for some reason.
Thanks!
Jim
P.S. anti-venom mod?
I just can't reliably keep this from happening. Can anybody recommend somebody in the SF Bay Area peninsula that's good that can fix her up for me? I think it is the reverse lockout but it's gotten sloppy enough that it's too easy to scrape now for some reason.
Thanks!
Jim
P.S. anti-venom mod?
Most guys just remove the bolt and install one or two washers behind it. The bolt is on the passenger side of transmission. You cannot see it but if you reach up toward top of trans on passenger side about mid ways of transmission you will feel a bolt going in side of trans. It is a 15/16 or 24mm, either size works, bolt and you just take it out. No fluid will come out and no spring to fly around either. I used two of the 13/16th copper drain plug washers on mine. About 1/16th total thickness with both washers. Just place them on bolt and tighten bolt back up again. That's it...
