Lifter noise? Several questions...
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 781
Likes: 0
Lifter noise? Several questions...
I have been catching bits and pieces of other threads involving lifters, and these Cadillac Racing Lifters for curing valvetrain noise.
What is actually making the noise we are hearing? The lifters themselves, or the rockers and/or pushrods?
I just installed a TSP 233/239 (on a 113 LSA) with around .600" lift, and am hearing what sounds like valvetrain noise, from inside the 'cockpit'. This is on my '01 Z06, with 110k miles. I was told by TSP, and other tuners, to use a pushrod that allowed about 1 AND 1/4 turns past zero lash for lifter preload. 7.450" was recommended, and turned out to be about right. It was also mentioned that anything less could result in increased valvetrain noise.
If, by chance, 7.450" was too long, would that also cause noise or oiling issues?
Like many of TSP's grinds, my cam is designed to work on a stock head/piston application. Does the inherent lobe profile for such an aggressive cam lend itself to more valvetrain noise--Maybe 'valve to seat' noise on a higher mileage engine?
Do the stock rockers simply NOT like anything approaching .600" lift?
I also have TSP headers. Do headers somehow 'amplify' valvetrain noise on these cars?
I am prepared to "live with it" as long as we can agree that I am not hurting anything (or losing performance/power).
Thanks, Joel.
What is actually making the noise we are hearing? The lifters themselves, or the rockers and/or pushrods?
I just installed a TSP 233/239 (on a 113 LSA) with around .600" lift, and am hearing what sounds like valvetrain noise, from inside the 'cockpit'. This is on my '01 Z06, with 110k miles. I was told by TSP, and other tuners, to use a pushrod that allowed about 1 AND 1/4 turns past zero lash for lifter preload. 7.450" was recommended, and turned out to be about right. It was also mentioned that anything less could result in increased valvetrain noise.
If, by chance, 7.450" was too long, would that also cause noise or oiling issues?
Like many of TSP's grinds, my cam is designed to work on a stock head/piston application. Does the inherent lobe profile for such an aggressive cam lend itself to more valvetrain noise--Maybe 'valve to seat' noise on a higher mileage engine?
Do the stock rockers simply NOT like anything approaching .600" lift?
I also have TSP headers. Do headers somehow 'amplify' valvetrain noise on these cars?
I am prepared to "live with it" as long as we can agree that I am not hurting anything (or losing performance/power).
Thanks, Joel.
Former Vendor
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,876
Likes: 8
From: Las Vegas NV
St. Jude Donor '06 & '12
See Quote..
I have been catching bits and pieces of other threads involving lifters, and these Cadillac Racing Lifters for curing valvetrain noise. For the regular street guy, I see ZERO purpose for going anything over the LS7 lifters. New isnt ALWAYS better.What is actually making the noise we are hearing? The lifters themselves, or the rockers and/or pushrods? Could be the lifters, springs OR the pushrods. What springs did you install??
I just installed a TSP 233/239 (on a 113 LSA) with around .600" lift, and am hearing what sounds like valvetrain noise, from inside the 'cockpit'. This is on my '01 Z06, with 110k miles. I was told by TSP, and other tuners, to use a pushrod that allowed about 1 AND 1/4 turns past zero lash for lifter preload. 7.450" was recommended, and turned out to be about right. It was also mentioned that anything less could result in increased valvetrain noise. A pushrod that is too long OR too short can cause valvetrain noiseIf, by chance, 7.450" was too long, would that also cause noise or oiling issues?
Like many of TSP's grinds, my cam is designed to work on a stock head/piston application. Does the inherent lobe profile for such an aggressive cam lend itself to more valvetrain noise--Maybe 'valve to seat' noise on a higher mileage engine?
Do the stock rockers simply NOT like anything approaching .600" lift? There are MANY guys that are running stock rockers at .600 lift. I've never heard of any major complaints at that lift.I also have TSP headers. Do headers somehow 'amplify' valvetrain noise on these cars?
I am prepared to "live with it" as long as we can agree that I am not hurting anything (or losing performance/power). IF you have everything set up correctly, you are probably just hearing the inherit sewing machine noise that is associated with a cam/springs swap..Thanks, Joel.
I just installed a TSP 233/239 (on a 113 LSA) with around .600" lift, and am hearing what sounds like valvetrain noise, from inside the 'cockpit'. This is on my '01 Z06, with 110k miles. I was told by TSP, and other tuners, to use a pushrod that allowed about 1 AND 1/4 turns past zero lash for lifter preload. 7.450" was recommended, and turned out to be about right. It was also mentioned that anything less could result in increased valvetrain noise. A pushrod that is too long OR too short can cause valvetrain noiseIf, by chance, 7.450" was too long, would that also cause noise or oiling issues?
Like many of TSP's grinds, my cam is designed to work on a stock head/piston application. Does the inherent lobe profile for such an aggressive cam lend itself to more valvetrain noise--Maybe 'valve to seat' noise on a higher mileage engine?
Do the stock rockers simply NOT like anything approaching .600" lift? There are MANY guys that are running stock rockers at .600 lift. I've never heard of any major complaints at that lift.I also have TSP headers. Do headers somehow 'amplify' valvetrain noise on these cars?
I am prepared to "live with it" as long as we can agree that I am not hurting anything (or losing performance/power). IF you have everything set up correctly, you are probably just hearing the inherit sewing machine noise that is associated with a cam/springs swap..Thanks, Joel.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,884
Likes: 260
From: Jamison Pa
St. Jude Donor '11-'25
Fast Sewing Machine
I've got a fast sewing machine also. After the H/C swap last summer I was amazed at the noise.
I learned to live with it. Now I'm waiting for the Caddy lifters to install in my 402. I hope they make it quiter.
Bob K.
I learned to live with it. Now I'm waiting for the Caddy lifters to install in my 402. I hope they make it quiter.
Bob K.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 22,025
Likes: 192
From: At the beach in little Rhody
I have been catching bits and pieces of other threads involving lifters, and these Cadillac Racing Lifters for curing valvetrain noise.
What is actually making the noise we are hearing? Cam ramp rates will play a major role in the noise, as will the valve train. The lifters themselves, or the rockers and/or pushrods?
I just installed a TSP 233/239 (on a 113 LSA) with around .600" lift, and am hearing what sounds like valvetrain noise, from inside the 'cockpit'. This is on my '01 Z06, with 110k miles. I was told by TSP, and other tuners, to use a pushrod that allowed about 1 AND 1/4 turns past zero lash for lifter preload. 7.450" was recommended, and turned out to be about right. It was also mentioned that anything less could result in increased valvetrain noise.
If, by chance, 7.450" was too long, would that also cause noise or oiling issues? The major issue would be bottoming the lifter internally and holding the valves open that can result in burnt valves. The only correct way to obtain a proper lifter preload is to measure with an adjustable pushrod since each motor is slightly different.
Like many of TSP's grinds, my cam is designed to work on a stock head/piston application. Does the inherent lobe profile for such an aggressive cam lend itself to more valvetrain noise--Maybe 'valve to seat' noise on a higher mileage engine? The lobe profile yes, the valve to seat no unless the cam is slamming down the valve but any proper cam design should not do this. The lobe design is such that the valve is accelerated to the seat and then set down on the seat. Of course, the rest of the valve train needs to keep up (not lose contact) for this to work properly.
Do the stock rockers simply NOT like anything approaching .600" lift?
I also have TSP headers. Do headers somehow 'amplify' valvetrain noise on these cars? Headers will allow more noise to be transmitted from the valve train. If you ever put a stethoscope on a motor you can hear theres a lot of noise going on in there. The rockers have been used successfully by a lot of guys with aftermarket cams. I personally don't like the wipe pattern and you have to be careful where it is contacting the valve stem. I found a few of mine were contacting towards the side of the rocker and changed them out for a full roller. Some people have reported that a full roller has quieted things down, but I would make sure your geometry is correct first, then consider other options. Things to check are wipe pattern and pushrod length and go from there.
I am prepared to "live with it" as long as we can agree that I am not hurting anything (or losing performance/power).
Thanks, Joel.
What is actually making the noise we are hearing? Cam ramp rates will play a major role in the noise, as will the valve train. The lifters themselves, or the rockers and/or pushrods?
I just installed a TSP 233/239 (on a 113 LSA) with around .600" lift, and am hearing what sounds like valvetrain noise, from inside the 'cockpit'. This is on my '01 Z06, with 110k miles. I was told by TSP, and other tuners, to use a pushrod that allowed about 1 AND 1/4 turns past zero lash for lifter preload. 7.450" was recommended, and turned out to be about right. It was also mentioned that anything less could result in increased valvetrain noise.
If, by chance, 7.450" was too long, would that also cause noise or oiling issues? The major issue would be bottoming the lifter internally and holding the valves open that can result in burnt valves. The only correct way to obtain a proper lifter preload is to measure with an adjustable pushrod since each motor is slightly different.
Like many of TSP's grinds, my cam is designed to work on a stock head/piston application. Does the inherent lobe profile for such an aggressive cam lend itself to more valvetrain noise--Maybe 'valve to seat' noise on a higher mileage engine? The lobe profile yes, the valve to seat no unless the cam is slamming down the valve but any proper cam design should not do this. The lobe design is such that the valve is accelerated to the seat and then set down on the seat. Of course, the rest of the valve train needs to keep up (not lose contact) for this to work properly.
Do the stock rockers simply NOT like anything approaching .600" lift?
I also have TSP headers. Do headers somehow 'amplify' valvetrain noise on these cars? Headers will allow more noise to be transmitted from the valve train. If you ever put a stethoscope on a motor you can hear theres a lot of noise going on in there. The rockers have been used successfully by a lot of guys with aftermarket cams. I personally don't like the wipe pattern and you have to be careful where it is contacting the valve stem. I found a few of mine were contacting towards the side of the rocker and changed them out for a full roller. Some people have reported that a full roller has quieted things down, but I would make sure your geometry is correct first, then consider other options. Things to check are wipe pattern and pushrod length and go from there.
I am prepared to "live with it" as long as we can agree that I am not hurting anything (or losing performance/power).
Thanks, Joel.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 781
Likes: 0
Thanks guys. Great answers!
I am using the Patriot/PRC Dual Springs for .650" lift (the Golds ?), with titanium retainers.
I have anywhere from 35psi to 55psi for oil pressure. Car seems to run great (once I get it out on the highway, after about 10 minutes) with a partial/temporary tune, but I am trying to keep it below 6,000 RPM until I get the car dyno-tuned on May 9th--just trying to work all the 'bugs' out before then.
The noise is very similar to my old, .600" lift solid roller cammed 383 LT4 (with CC ProMag 1.6 RRs, and headers, of course).
I can't imagine a 7.425" pushrod would make a noticeable difference, though I wouldn't be against trying this, if someone were to 2nd this motion (?).
I am certainly not too concerned about some extra noise, as many a worthwhile mod usually brings along some kind of concession/compromise.
I am using the Patriot/PRC Dual Springs for .650" lift (the Golds ?), with titanium retainers.
I have anywhere from 35psi to 55psi for oil pressure. Car seems to run great (once I get it out on the highway, after about 10 minutes) with a partial/temporary tune, but I am trying to keep it below 6,000 RPM until I get the car dyno-tuned on May 9th--just trying to work all the 'bugs' out before then.
The noise is very similar to my old, .600" lift solid roller cammed 383 LT4 (with CC ProMag 1.6 RRs, and headers, of course).
I can't imagine a 7.425" pushrod would make a noticeable difference, though I wouldn't be against trying this, if someone were to 2nd this motion (?).
I am certainly not too concerned about some extra noise, as many a worthwhile mod usually brings along some kind of concession/compromise.
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,394
Likes: 12
From: Leon Iowa
St. Jude Donor '06-'07-'08-'09
Thanks guys. Great answers!
I am using the Patriot/PRC Dual Springs for .650" lift (the Golds ?), with titanium retainers.
I have anywhere from 35psi to 55psi for oil pressure. Car seems to run great (once I get it out on the highway, after about 10 minutes) with a partial/temporary tune, but I am trying to keep it below 6,000 RPM until I get the car dyno-tuned on May 9th--just trying to work all the 'bugs' out before then.
The noise is very similar to my old, .600" lift solid roller cammed 383 LT4 (with CC ProMag 1.6 RRs, and headers, of course).
I can't imagine a 7.425" pushrod would make a noticeable difference, though I wouldn't be against trying this, if someone were to 2nd this motion (?).
I am certainly not too concerned about some extra noise, as many a worthwhile mod usually brings along some kind of concession/compromise.
I am using the Patriot/PRC Dual Springs for .650" lift (the Golds ?), with titanium retainers.
I have anywhere from 35psi to 55psi for oil pressure. Car seems to run great (once I get it out on the highway, after about 10 minutes) with a partial/temporary tune, but I am trying to keep it below 6,000 RPM until I get the car dyno-tuned on May 9th--just trying to work all the 'bugs' out before then.
The noise is very similar to my old, .600" lift solid roller cammed 383 LT4 (with CC ProMag 1.6 RRs, and headers, of course).
I can't imagine a 7.425" pushrod would make a noticeable difference, though I wouldn't be against trying this, if someone were to 2nd this motion (?).
I am certainly not too concerned about some extra noise, as many a worthwhile mod usually brings along some kind of concession/compromise.
