C5 or C5Z???
Racer
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 435
Likes: 0
From: Seattle WA
It depends on what you're looking to do with the car. You can make a C5 faster around a track than a C5Z, but you're going to have to spend money to do it, which puts you near the Z's price anyways. Not to mention the "regular" C5 is still going to be heavier and less stiff. If you're just looking to cruise around and have fun, then why spend the extra money on the Z? Another option is finding a FRC, which gives you many of the advantages of the C5Z, but is still less money.
Race Director
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 15,960
Likes: 21
From: West Norriton PA
St. Jude Donor '08
It really depends on what body style you like, the FRC or Hatchback. I like the FRC look myself much more than the hatchback (Coupe).
After that they are pretty much the same car with different motors, suspension, etc..
Either one can be customized. If you plan on spraying I would not go crazy and would consider forging bottom end.
After that they are pretty much the same car with different motors, suspension, etc..
Either one can be customized. If you plan on spraying I would not go crazy and would consider forging bottom end.
Administrator
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 66,408
Likes: 2,058
From: Bel Air (by way of Fort Worth, TX) Maryland
St. Jude Donor '12 thru '21
It depends on what you're looking to do with the car. You can make a C5 faster around a track than a C5Z, but you're going to have to spend money to do it, which puts you near the Z's price anyways. Not to mention the "regular" C5 is still going to be heavier and less stiff. If you're just looking to cruise around and have fun, then why spend the extra money on the Z? Another option is finding a FRC, which gives you many of the advantages of the C5Z, but is still less money.
C5Z= Street/Track racer, minimal mods required
C5= Cruiser/funmobile, mods if you wish to race/track more extensive
The money you'll spend just to get it to Z power can be used to upgrade a Z to the next level.
Pro
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 623
Likes: 11
From: Ankeny IA
If you plan to extensively mod the car, then the Z06 is not worth the money. The $7k+ you save in the purchase price of the vehicle is more than enough to exceed the performance of a stock Z06. The stiffness difference is about 1-2Hz and the weight difference 80-100lbs (depending on how the C5 is optioned). If the stiffness difference bothers, throw an exhaust tunnel plate at it.
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 227
Likes: 0
From: Garden Grove CA
One reason I chose the C5Z over a regular C5 or FRC (97-2000) is because of the fact I could get 72mo financing at a low rate vs 48mos at a higher rate. It will be paid off much faster than that but it is much nicer to have some wiggle room if something goes wrong (lower payment due). The 2001+ regular C5's were really close in price to the C5Z.
I really like having the extra power, and the close ratio transmission too.
I really like having the extra power, and the close ratio transmission too.
Racer
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 435
Likes: 0
From: Seattle WA
One reason I chose the C5Z over a regular C5 or FRC (97-2000) is because of the fact I could get 72mo financing at a low rate vs 48mos at a higher rate. It will be paid off much faster than that but it is much nicer to have some wiggle room if something goes wrong (lower payment due). The 2001+ regular C5's were really close in price to the C5Z.
I really like having the extra power, and the close ratio transmission too.
I really like having the extra power, and the close ratio transmission too.
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,451
Likes: 2
From: East Peoria Illinois
all depends on one thing, you want removable roof or not. Thats the only reason i bought a coupe, plus i like the lines better of a coupe, more sleek.
if you dont care about the roof, go with the Z
if you dont care about the roof, go with the Z
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,195
Likes: 25
From: Tacoma WA
He's right - it's not that the MN12 gears are closer together. IT's that the gears have higher values for a greater mechanical advantage in each gear... The gears themselves are actually further apart than M6 gears, but have a Higher Ratio and thus Higher Final Drive... Regardless, the MN12 is still an accelleration advantage over the M6.
On Topic: like people say it really does depend on what you want...
A) If you like the look of one or the other thats a good decision point.
B) If you plan on tracking the car a lot and not modding it (staying Stock Class) then the Z is a better choice.
C) If you plan on upgrading the car a lot, for fun OR for Track I would lean more towards the coupe simply because you won't be replacing parts you paid extra for... That said you can still mod the hell out of a C5Z - as long as it doesn't bother you swapping out Z06 Items that cost extra... maybe you can sell 'em used...
-Dan
On Topic: like people say it really does depend on what you want...
A) If you like the look of one or the other thats a good decision point.
B) If you plan on tracking the car a lot and not modding it (staying Stock Class) then the Z is a better choice.
C) If you plan on upgrading the car a lot, for fun OR for Track I would lean more towards the coupe simply because you won't be replacing parts you paid extra for... That said you can still mod the hell out of a C5Z - as long as it doesn't bother you swapping out Z06 Items that cost extra... maybe you can sell 'em used...
-Dan
Thread Starter
Advanced
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 99
Likes: 1
From: Chicago
He's right - it's not that the MN12 gears are closer together. IT's that the gears have higher values for a greater mechanical advantage in each gear... The gears themselves are actually further apart than M6 gears, but have a Higher Ratio and thus Higher Final Drive... Regardless, the MN12 is still an accelleration advantage over the M6.
On Topic: like people say it really does depend on what you want...
A) If you like the look of one or the other thats a good decision point.
B) If you plan on tracking the car a lot and not modding it (staying Stock Class) then the Z is a better choice.
C) If you plan on upgrading the car a lot, for fun OR for Track I would lean more towards the coupe simply because you won't be replacing parts you paid extra for... That said you can still mod the hell out of a C5Z - as long as it doesn't bother you swapping out Z06 Items that cost extra... maybe you can sell 'em used...
-Dan
On Topic: like people say it really does depend on what you want...
A) If you like the look of one or the other thats a good decision point.
B) If you plan on tracking the car a lot and not modding it (staying Stock Class) then the Z is a better choice.
C) If you plan on upgrading the car a lot, for fun OR for Track I would lean more towards the coupe simply because you won't be replacing parts you paid extra for... That said you can still mod the hell out of a C5Z - as long as it doesn't bother you swapping out Z06 Items that cost extra... maybe you can sell 'em used...
-Dan
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 227
Likes: 0
From: Garden Grove CA
He's right - it's not that the MN12 gears are closer together. IT's that the gears have higher values for a greater mechanical advantage in each gear... The gears themselves are actually further apart than M6 gears, but have a Higher Ratio and thus Higher Final Drive... Regardless, the MN12 is still an accelleration advantage over the M6.
-Dan
-Dan
I like the trans in the Z06 better still 
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 770
Likes: 0
He's right - it's not that the MN12 gears are closer together. IT's that the gears have higher values for a greater mechanical advantage in each gear... The gears themselves are actually further apart than M6 gears, but have a Higher Ratio and thus Higher Final Drive... Regardless, the MN12 is still an accelleration advantage over the M6.
I went with a new MN12 when I had to replace my trans for the lower gears and more pull in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd, without having to buy a new rear end.
2nd Gear
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
PLEASE READ THIS ENTIRE MESSAGE....IT IS VERY IMPORTANT AND CAN HELP YOU BEGINNERS AND SOME OF YOU LONG TIMERS....!!!!
This is my "Cartek" experience that i would like to share with all the members on this forum.
I have previously found out that my father was right when he told me as a child that "if you want it done right, do it yourself." I recently had an appointment set up with the company Cartek Racing located out of Garwood New Jersey that was scheduled 1 1/2 months in advance. Now, i had made this appointment because I was told by many that Cartek Racing was the BEST place to get my 002 Z06 Dyno-tuned. My Car does have work done to it ( MS4 camshaft, LG LT pros). After dealing with tem on the phone, some of the workers were very unpleasent to talk to but some were fine such as Dave who was very helpful. The time now came for me to make my trip from PA,( 20min north of philly........1 1/2hour trip) and when i finally ended up at there shop, I was NOT IMPRESSED at all. There were cars outside with flat tires, convertible tops down being fried in the sun and neglected as they were parked out on the main street. I continued to go inside and get my car tuned. I met with Dav and Mike and I was greated very politely and was told to " Wait for 2 mins and we'll get your car in."
I waited for 3HOURS, after continuing to bother them to get my car on the dyno. After they finally got the car onto the dyno, the man that pulled it in decided that he wanted to open my door right into the metal guardrail around the dyno. BTW my car is a purely show car and les just say that it did not make me very happy since now, that is the only scuff/scratch on the ENTIRE car. I decided to not say anything ( in fear that they would blow my engine on the dyno or do more damage since i had already signed the Waver). As i went to the office to talk to Dave, The workers there decided that they wanted to wel a Bung onto my BRAND NEW LG headers ( whether the bung was needed or not) without telling me or letting myself be aware of it at all. On top of that, the welds on the bung were to the quality of an 8 year old. My car then sat on the dyno for another 2 hours before they decided to look at it. The man that was tuning my vehicle ( Julio ) hooked his software up and it turned out that the mail order tune people had put a lokck on the tune so I had to wait until the email came back. Julio decided he wanted to go ot to lunch AGAIN for another 1-2 hours. As i waited again very patiently, the time finally cam at 7 o clock for my car to get tuned. The first run, Julio decided to run the car with the traction control on ( he claims) and the car was beaking up and running awful. After he banged off the rev limiter a number of times ( which is set a 6900rpms and shouldnt be limited on a dyno since that is very bad). After that first yno run, he told me about that traction control and giggled. The second and third run were made within a matter of 10-15 minutes. The Tune was FINALLY done and it was time to go back home. I payed in cash ( the $550 ) and kindl left. I started the car outside and the car ran awful. The idle was terrible and it would barely move. I continued down the street and the car was so annoying to drie that i thought about having it flatbedded home. Now some of you are saying, well why didnt you just take it back. And my response is, I had been there ALL day, had my door scuffed, was treated poorly, and had my car tuned poorly, Do you really think that i would want to go back. If you had a awful meal in a restaurant and they said that they would like to try again, you wouldnt try again, you just wouldnt go back....Am I right...
Anyway, as i was on my way hme, i wanted to test the performance of my newly tuned vehicle and as i expected, the perforance was also terrible. I had to pass a Celica with exhaust and it was so difficult that i just ave up and got behind that fartcan. Lets just say that i payed $550 for my car to run worse then when it came in, get scuffed, get treated poorly, and waste an entire day, which BTW was a friday and i could hav been wrking and making money instead of pissing it away with these fellas. I ad to have the computer reflashed to Factory settings just so that i would be able to drive it when it needed to be taken somewhere. The point of this story is not to talk trash or hatred on Cartek racing, or not to even tell you that you shouldnt go there. The point is just to let all of you out there who are in the same positio that i was in to beware that you cant always trust these people who say there the best. I ended up using HP Tuners to tne my own car and I have it running excelent. There are still a few minor bugs to work out but for a first time user of any computer tuning program, i think i did great, and to believe that these men at Cartek do this fr a living, scares me. For all of you that have had great success wit Cartek, you were lucky and for all of you that pay no attention to this and go there, I hope you dont have to go through what I went through. Belive me, It wasnt fun and it wasnt cheap. I was told on the phone that they would decide about what they wanted to do about compensting me for the trouble they had caused and it has been the week that i told them i would give them before I shared my experience with teh entire world. As a Business owner myself, This experience has not only made me care more about the quality of my work ( which is to the highest standards to begin with) but has also helped me to realize that there are a lot of hacks out there and that you just have to be careful. Do as much research as you can and when your done, take your time and do some more. Dont be fooled when you see a shop with a lot of fast and famed cars in it, because behind the fast and famed ars that i had seen, there must have been apprentices working on the cars because the quality is of that. To say the least, I would not even take my mother blazer to have the oil changed at Cartek Racing. \
This Letter is ONLY of my OPINIONS and my own personal experince. This is not to provide hatred or tell ayone not to go there. These are just my thoughts. NO Replies are necessary and for those of you who support them and think that i am an ***hole, that is fine and you can keep that to yourselves. Thank you all for reading this and good luck with your interesting Corvette experiences. If you have just read this message, you will be seeing it again on the threads list probably every week,. Thanks again and good luck to all you Corvette enthusiasts.!!!!!!!!!
This is my "Cartek" experience that i would like to share with all the members on this forum.
I have previously found out that my father was right when he told me as a child that "if you want it done right, do it yourself." I recently had an appointment set up with the company Cartek Racing located out of Garwood New Jersey that was scheduled 1 1/2 months in advance. Now, i had made this appointment because I was told by many that Cartek Racing was the BEST place to get my 002 Z06 Dyno-tuned. My Car does have work done to it ( MS4 camshaft, LG LT pros). After dealing with tem on the phone, some of the workers were very unpleasent to talk to but some were fine such as Dave who was very helpful. The time now came for me to make my trip from PA,( 20min north of philly........1 1/2hour trip) and when i finally ended up at there shop, I was NOT IMPRESSED at all. There were cars outside with flat tires, convertible tops down being fried in the sun and neglected as they were parked out on the main street. I continued to go inside and get my car tuned. I met with Dav and Mike and I was greated very politely and was told to " Wait for 2 mins and we'll get your car in."
I waited for 3HOURS, after continuing to bother them to get my car on the dyno. After they finally got the car onto the dyno, the man that pulled it in decided that he wanted to open my door right into the metal guardrail around the dyno. BTW my car is a purely show car and les just say that it did not make me very happy since now, that is the only scuff/scratch on the ENTIRE car. I decided to not say anything ( in fear that they would blow my engine on the dyno or do more damage since i had already signed the Waver). As i went to the office to talk to Dave, The workers there decided that they wanted to wel a Bung onto my BRAND NEW LG headers ( whether the bung was needed or not) without telling me or letting myself be aware of it at all. On top of that, the welds on the bung were to the quality of an 8 year old. My car then sat on the dyno for another 2 hours before they decided to look at it. The man that was tuning my vehicle ( Julio ) hooked his software up and it turned out that the mail order tune people had put a lokck on the tune so I had to wait until the email came back. Julio decided he wanted to go ot to lunch AGAIN for another 1-2 hours. As i waited again very patiently, the time finally cam at 7 o clock for my car to get tuned. The first run, Julio decided to run the car with the traction control on ( he claims) and the car was beaking up and running awful. After he banged off the rev limiter a number of times ( which is set a 6900rpms and shouldnt be limited on a dyno since that is very bad). After that first yno run, he told me about that traction control and giggled. The second and third run were made within a matter of 10-15 minutes. The Tune was FINALLY done and it was time to go back home. I payed in cash ( the $550 ) and kindl left. I started the car outside and the car ran awful. The idle was terrible and it would barely move. I continued down the street and the car was so annoying to drie that i thought about having it flatbedded home. Now some of you are saying, well why didnt you just take it back. And my response is, I had been there ALL day, had my door scuffed, was treated poorly, and had my car tuned poorly, Do you really think that i would want to go back. If you had a awful meal in a restaurant and they said that they would like to try again, you wouldnt try again, you just wouldnt go back....Am I right...
Anyway, as i was on my way hme, i wanted to test the performance of my newly tuned vehicle and as i expected, the perforance was also terrible. I had to pass a Celica with exhaust and it was so difficult that i just ave up and got behind that fartcan. Lets just say that i payed $550 for my car to run worse then when it came in, get scuffed, get treated poorly, and waste an entire day, which BTW was a friday and i could hav been wrking and making money instead of pissing it away with these fellas. I ad to have the computer reflashed to Factory settings just so that i would be able to drive it when it needed to be taken somewhere. The point of this story is not to talk trash or hatred on Cartek racing, or not to even tell you that you shouldnt go there. The point is just to let all of you out there who are in the same positio that i was in to beware that you cant always trust these people who say there the best. I ended up using HP Tuners to tne my own car and I have it running excelent. There are still a few minor bugs to work out but for a first time user of any computer tuning program, i think i did great, and to believe that these men at Cartek do this fr a living, scares me. For all of you that have had great success wit Cartek, you were lucky and for all of you that pay no attention to this and go there, I hope you dont have to go through what I went through. Belive me, It wasnt fun and it wasnt cheap. I was told on the phone that they would decide about what they wanted to do about compensting me for the trouble they had caused and it has been the week that i told them i would give them before I shared my experience with teh entire world. As a Business owner myself, This experience has not only made me care more about the quality of my work ( which is to the highest standards to begin with) but has also helped me to realize that there are a lot of hacks out there and that you just have to be careful. Do as much research as you can and when your done, take your time and do some more. Dont be fooled when you see a shop with a lot of fast and famed cars in it, because behind the fast and famed ars that i had seen, there must have been apprentices working on the cars because the quality is of that. To say the least, I would not even take my mother blazer to have the oil changed at Cartek Racing. \
This Letter is ONLY of my OPINIONS and my own personal experince. This is not to provide hatred or tell ayone not to go there. These are just my thoughts. NO Replies are necessary and for those of you who support them and think that i am an ***hole, that is fine and you can keep that to yourselves. Thank you all for reading this and good luck with your interesting Corvette experiences. If you have just read this message, you will be seeing it again on the threads list probably every week,. Thanks again and good luck to all you Corvette enthusiasts.!!!!!!!!!
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 770
Likes: 0
Wow...You put a lot of thought into that. Might be the wrong thread to put it in though...look for the thread titled, "Why I hate Cartek." This one discusses the advantages of the Z vs Coupe.
Last edited by DRR; Jul 11, 2007 at 08:00 PM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,195
Likes: 25
From: Tacoma WA
Not exactly correct...both trans are 1:1 ratio in fourth. 1st, 2nd & 3rd, 5th & 6th are lower in the Z. Fourth is the same in both, this is why some feel the M6 is a better choice and couple it with a lower geared rear end. This way you don't have a bigger difference between 3rd and 4th.
I went with a new MN12 when I had to replace my trans for the lower gears and more pull in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd, without having to buy a new rear end.
I went with a new MN12 when I had to replace my trans for the lower gears and more pull in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd, without having to buy a new rear end.
Lower but not closer. A common misconception is that the Gear Ratios in the MN12 are closer together and i just wanted to clarify that's not the case.
The 1-2, 2-3, and 3-4 Gears are all closer together in the MN6. The 4-5 and 5-6 are Closer in the MN12 although those aren't that important...
All the gears except 4th are Lower in the MN12 (Numerically Higher) such that the Mechanical Advantage is greater in each gear (except 4th) But the distance between each ratio is closer in the M6 (except 4-5, 5-6)
Technicalities i suppose. The MN12 has a better mechanical advantage than the M6 and with the Higher Stock Rev Limit of the Z more suited to take advantage of the lower (numerically higher) gearing in the M12.
Again, swapping the rear end of a M6 equipped car to a 4.10 rear would give you a better mechanical advantage in each gear, on top of the M6's closer ratios... a good choice IMO.
Either way - I still stand that if you're planning on swapping a lot of components for after market ones (Heads/ Cam, Shocks, Sways, etc.) I would get a coupe... because otherwise you're throwing money away on the Z.
-Dan
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 770
Likes: 0
Gear Ratios
LS1-M6 / LS6-MN12
1st Gear 2.66:1 / 2.97:1 -.88 vs .90 1st to 2nd difference = .20
2nd Gear 1.78:1 / 2.07:1 -.48 vs .64 2nd to 3rd difference = .16
3rd Gear 1.30:1 / 1.43:1 -.30 vs .43 3rd to 4th difference = .13
4th Gear 1.00:1 / 1.00:1 -.26 vs .16 4th to 5th difference = .10
5th Gear 0.74:1 / 0.84:1 -.24 vs .28 5th to 6th difference = .04
6th Gear 0.50:1 / 0.56:1
R 2.90:1 / 3.28:1
In all the gears the difference is small, but 5th to 6th is also closer on the M6, by a very, very small margin.
Oh yeah I forgot to ask why are you not considering a Vert?
LS1-M6 / LS6-MN12
1st Gear 2.66:1 / 2.97:1 -.88 vs .90 1st to 2nd difference = .20
2nd Gear 1.78:1 / 2.07:1 -.48 vs .64 2nd to 3rd difference = .16
3rd Gear 1.30:1 / 1.43:1 -.30 vs .43 3rd to 4th difference = .13
4th Gear 1.00:1 / 1.00:1 -.26 vs .16 4th to 5th difference = .10
5th Gear 0.74:1 / 0.84:1 -.24 vs .28 5th to 6th difference = .04
6th Gear 0.50:1 / 0.56:1
R 2.90:1 / 3.28:1
In all the gears the difference is small, but 5th to 6th is also closer on the M6, by a very, very small margin.
Oh yeah I forgot to ask why are you not considering a Vert?
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,195
Likes: 25
From: Tacoma WA
Gear Ratios
LS1-M6 / LS6-MN12
1st Gear 2.66:1 / 2.97:1 -.88 vs .90 1st to 2nd difference = .20
2nd Gear 1.78:1 / 2.07:1 -.48 vs .64 2nd to 3rd difference = .16
3rd Gear 1.30:1 / 1.43:1 -.30 vs .43 3rd to 4th difference = .13
4th Gear 1.00:1 / 1.00:1 -.26 vs .16 4th to 5th difference = .10
5th Gear 0.74:1 / 0.84:1 -.24 vs .28 5th to 6th difference = .04
6th Gear 0.50:1 / 0.56:1
R 2.90:1 / 3.28:1
In all the gears the difference is small, but 5th to 6th is also closer on the M6, by a very, very small margin.
Oh yeah I forgot to ask why are you not considering a Vert?
LS1-M6 / LS6-MN12
1st Gear 2.66:1 / 2.97:1 -.88 vs .90 1st to 2nd difference = .20
2nd Gear 1.78:1 / 2.07:1 -.48 vs .64 2nd to 3rd difference = .16
3rd Gear 1.30:1 / 1.43:1 -.30 vs .43 3rd to 4th difference = .13
4th Gear 1.00:1 / 1.00:1 -.26 vs .16 4th to 5th difference = .10
5th Gear 0.74:1 / 0.84:1 -.24 vs .28 5th to 6th difference = .04
6th Gear 0.50:1 / 0.56:1
R 2.90:1 / 3.28:1
In all the gears the difference is small, but 5th to 6th is also closer on the M6, by a very, very small margin.
Oh yeah I forgot to ask why are you not considering a Vert?
LS1 M6 - LS6 M12
1st Gear 9.10 / 10.16
2nd Gear 6.09 / 7.08
3rd Gear 4.45 / 4.89
4th Gear 3.42 / 3.42
5th Gear 2.53 / 2.87
6th Gear 1.71 / 1.92
Here's Mine
LS1 M6 4.10 Diff
1st Gear 10.91
2nd Gear 7.30
3rd Gear 5.33
4th Gear 4.10
5th Gear 3.03
6th Gear 2.05
I vote go Coupe just cause i like the look more... Mods are mods...
-Dan
