There is a lot of discussion on this issue, what exactly is torque management and how can it be improved upon or eliminated with tuning? Thanks

 

TQ mangement is a power reduction system GM uses in all of their newer automatic vehicles-It is only engaged when the transmission shifts from 1-2/2-3/3-4/. Depending on the amount of estimated engine torque the system will subtract up to 35% of the engines power during the shift in order to protect the transmission from abuse and the entire driveline (u-joints-rear axle-transmission-transfercase-tires)-It is a great system and helps to prolong the life of all of these components--However it is horrible for performance--What happens is that you've just moved up the RPM band to the next shift and theTQ managament
system will kill all the momentum you've just gained and makes you start building it all over again--So the fuel and effort you just expended in gaining the RPM's and speed gets reduced at every shift-Many people delete all of it--some just leave a little behind to have at least some protection--My opinion is that on heavier vehicles it is not really needed because the weight of the vehicle is its own TQ management system in itself-On lighter cars like corvettes and camaros i always leave some in otherwise you can get tire spin at the lower WOT shift points that can make you lose control (On my own corvette it will break them loose at the 1-2 shift without TQ mgmt and the car will pitch sideways at 60 MPH and I almost hit a tree)
In addition to the TQ mgmt , There are other systems in place that SUBTRACT power from your engine -although they are not discussed as often-- I always adjust them as well--they are :
Abuse Mgmt. / TQ Limiting ? / Traction control

 

Hey thanks great info!

 

WELL STATED!!!

I talked to a tuner who experimented with TQ Management on the dyno and he said you could watch the throttle close down and injector pulse with change when the car had TQ Management active. It is eliminated MN6/12 cars and like tblu92 stated,,,,the car will break loose when shifting hard from 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd. and yes it looks for trees and ditches!

I try very hard to remember to shift with purpose instead of revenge or vengeance but, it's fun to wave the a$$ end of your car at your opponent some times!

BC

 

is this why my A4 00 vert feels like a Mustang when i put it in first and dromp the go pedal? it feels like it is slowly accelerating instead of breaking the tires loose...how can you play with the torque management system?

 

Yes, that's torque management making your A4 feel like a dog on occasion. You can adjust it with a tune such as HPtuners, LS1edit, etc. There's a torque management tab, and in it a "maximum torque". The higher this is the less TM you will have. I think stock it's set to 350 on my 6 speed car.

Abuse management is for autos, and is based on the trans temperature and how much torque you're trying to put through it... basically it will lock down the power if you exceed a certain temperature.

Torque limiting I'm not so sure of but probably a sub-feature of TM

I'm not "certain", but from what I can tell the computer has a calculation (that you can change many of the constants for) that determines how much torque you're putting out as a function of known engine parameters, fuel usage, and rpm. Then if it exceeds certain values in the TM tables, it will reduce the available power.

Jonota

 

That sounds more like a traction control issue--the TQ mangement as far as i know is only active during the shifts and not while just in gear stomping on it--It shouldn't do that with the traction control turned OFF--however it could be part of the tq limiting program which the tables are adjustable----you can delete the Tq managemnt ---sometimes also called tq reduction--and raise the TQ limiting #'s to the maximum values--The Max TQ # spoken of is only the max TQ used to enforce the traction control system and NOT the TQ management--changing this number only raises the traction control max value--which is not neccessary because all you have to do is turn it off on the console--I think it is a good idea to leave the traction control system intact as designed so you can let others drive your car without hurting themselves and it also gives you some protection when your own common sense is challenged like when drinking too much or driving in the rain--and when feeling racey---just turn it off---

 

A couple points of correction - in addition to softening up the motor during the shift window TQ Mgmt also kicks in when stabbing the throttle from a standing start on Gen-III PCMs, it shows the computer pulling a few degrees of timing up to about 1800-rpm (I am assuming this happens on Gen-IV units too).

RE the comment on heavier vehicles not needing as much Tq Mgmt, sorry but this reasoning is false - TQ Mgmt is even more critical on a truck (heavy vehicle) than a Vette (light vehicle) for reliabilty's sake. Proof in the pudding I drive a modded 2003 Silverado SS (5200-lbs AWD) and it eats transmissions, I'm on my fourth with nothing more than CAI/tune/Corsa. The only way that GM gets the combination down the road with any hope of holding together is employing a severe Tq Mgmt policy. Heavier vehicles are far harder on transmissions than lighter 2WD vehicles; I have a fully hardened trans in my truck to just handle the factory LQ9 pushing this pig to a 14.0 quarter mile. I finally got smart and put just a touch (10%) Tq Mgmt back into my DD tune.

Mr. P.

 

I don't agree at all based on my own experience--and it is that --just your opinion and mine--and i am entitle to mine based on what i've learned--My point being one of the uses of TQ mangement is to keep the tiires from spinning on upshifts at WOT---a lighter car would have more of a tendency to spin the tires without TQ management in place and a heavier vehicle like a truck it would never spin the tires at WOT shift whether or not it is turned on or not--the shear weight on the vehicle keeps the tires from breaking loose and causing driveline breakage--u-joint breakage etc. TQ mangagement is not solely for protecting the trans---your trans issues breaking opens up a whole new can of worms--blameing it on the TQ management is rediculous--without knowing what else you've done to it--many people play with the pressures-shift times-TCC--shift points and a host of other trans tuning tables that can result in failures---
You are entitled to your opinion --but don't be bold enough to say that my reasoning is false-- --be a gentleman and stick with saying it is your opinion only---you certainly won't offend people that way-even though i 100% don't agree with you at all and think there are other issues that make your tranny fail--IF GM was so dead set on utiliizing TQ Mgmt--then why do they even make it an option to be changed?--If it were that important they would not make it avail. for changes to anyone--no how---Also--why do they not even use any at the 3-4 shift on many vehicles as well ???---Because they and i subscribe to the same way of thinking on it's use----

 

I met a fellow at Carlisle this weekend who was completely disgusted with his A4 C5. On the recommendation from a friend, he installed a higher stall speed TQ Converter, a tranny cooler, had the PCM tuned and installed 3:73 gears and now he is ecstatic with it!

If you want more ZIP from your A4 C5, you might want to consider this up-grade.

In a MN6/MN12 owner but I can see the happiness in the above stated mods for people who own C5's with A4's

BC

 

Hi Bill we always seem to share the same thoughts on performance and tuning--just last week i put in a new rear diff. --3.42 ratio and a mild 2600-2800 stall----WOW It's not even close to acting like the same car !!! Pulls strong from dead stop thru all the gears and never drops lower than 4800 between shifts-- Drag radials are a must now but i have a set of BFG's and they are wonderful--tranny cooler w/ fan and deep-sump pan keeps it cool never gets above 185*--Also re-tuned trans table to accom. stall converter and no codes--limps or any issues--By far the best 2 mods for an A4---(IMO)

 

Everything I have read says that torque management is to keep from breaking the transmission at WOT upshifts...

The 4L60E based transmissions are not that strong a transmission.

Hey Mister P, I'd assume you have a 4L65E so have you ever considered a 4L80E transmission as a replacement in that truck?

Peter

 

tblu92

IT's only natural when the correct answer only makes sense! Like the old saying goes, Great minds think alike!

I have never had an A4 but I see the results and happy people time and time again once the correct up-grades are done to make performance better!

REMEMBER!!!!!!! GM makes Corvettes to PLEASE everyone, soooooo,,some (alot) of the performance potentials are still on the table!

BC

BV

 

Torque management is meant to save the trans. Traction control is meant to keep your tires from braking loose.
4L60Es/4L65Es are terribly weak trannys. The worst thing for them is a hookin suspension, and a good bit of power. If you're spinnin, you aint breakin.
PS theres plenty you can do to a 4L60E or 4l65E to improve their durability. We have some trannys behind some 500 + rwhp cars that are over 2 years old. Still runnin strong. We build all of them the same way, whether they are going behind a stocker or a SC high HP car.