Valve keeper fell out- problems?
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 887
Likes: 15
From: Central CT
St. Jude Donor '16
Valve keeper fell out- problems?
It's an 02 Z06 after an accident. When it got hit, the right valve cover was also slightly hit and it moved out of place, enaugh to get in the way of the first spring (closest to the TB) and someone started the car and somehow one of the valve keepers fell out. The other is still in there, but looks like the valve is a little lower than the rest. I was told that they ran the motor. When I took the valve cover off to inspect possible damage when I saw it was moved, that's when I found that keeper on the head. I will not be starting the motor now till I will put the keeper back in but is there a possible damage to the piston or maybe a bent valve? Any other issues possible?
Thanks for any input on this...
Konrad L.
Thanks for any input on this...
Konrad L.
Race Director
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 16,477
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From: Gone
CI 6-7-8-9-10 Veteran
St. Jude Donor '03
What does the retainer look like?
When you say "the other is still in place"...do you mean the other half of the lock?
If so, I doubt the valve dropped, as if it dropped out, the other half of the lock (keeper) certainly wouldn't have found it's place back on the valvestem during your inspection.
This is a very odd occurrence...but from the sounds of it, you may be replacing the head anyways.
When you say "the other is still in place"...do you mean the other half of the lock?
If so, I doubt the valve dropped, as if it dropped out, the other half of the lock (keeper) certainly wouldn't have found it's place back on the valvestem during your inspection.
This is a very odd occurrence...but from the sounds of it, you may be replacing the head anyways.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 5,005
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From: jackson nj
When you put compressed air in the cylinder to hold the valve up, if it's bent you will hear the air escaping past it. If it's an intake it will be heard thru the throttle body, and exhaust is usually heard in the tailpipe.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 22,025
Likes: 192
From: At the beach in little Rhody
What does the retainer look like?
When you say "the other is still in place"...do you mean the other half of the lock?
If so, I doubt the valve dropped, as if it dropped out, the other half of the lock (keeper) certainly wouldn't have found it's place back on the valvestem during your inspection.
This is a very odd occurrence...but from the sounds of it, you may be replacing the head anyways.
When you say "the other is still in place"...do you mean the other half of the lock?
If so, I doubt the valve dropped, as if it dropped out, the other half of the lock (keeper) certainly wouldn't have found it's place back on the valvestem during your inspection.
This is a very odd occurrence...but from the sounds of it, you may be replacing the head anyways.
Any photo's?
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 887
Likes: 15
From: Central CT
St. Jude Donor '16
What does the retainer look like?
When you say "the other is still in place"...do you mean the other half of the lock?
If so, I doubt the valve dropped, as if it dropped out, the other half of the lock (keeper) certainly wouldn't have found it's place back on the valvestem during your inspection.
This is a very odd occurrence...but from the sounds of it, you may be replacing the head anyways.
When you say "the other is still in place"...do you mean the other half of the lock?
If so, I doubt the valve dropped, as if it dropped out, the other half of the lock (keeper) certainly wouldn't have found it's place back on the valvestem during your inspection.
This is a very odd occurrence...but from the sounds of it, you may be replacing the head anyways.
Why should I replace the head, can't I just put the other keeper back in?
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 887
Likes: 15
From: Central CT
St. Jude Donor '16
I will try to get pics tomorrow, but it's hard to see even up close...
Race Director
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 16,477
Likes: 26
From: Gone
CI 6-7-8-9-10 Veteran
St. Jude Donor '03
As stated above, the valve could still be bent...if it is, what did that do to the guide?
I'm also not sure how the valvecover could move off the head without breaking it's bolts.
There just seems to be a lot going on here from an impact collision that would make me wonder what unseen problems are present. Valve locks just don't fall out...and what does the retainer look like?
The rocker's don't hold pressure...you can take all the rocker arms out and the valves will all be seated in place. The retainers (the thin discs that fit over the keepers) are what hold the locks in place on the valvestem.
I'm also not sure how the valvecover could move off the head without breaking it's bolts.
There just seems to be a lot going on here from an impact collision that would make me wonder what unseen problems are present. Valve locks just don't fall out...and what does the retainer look like?
The rocker's don't hold pressure...you can take all the rocker arms out and the valves will all be seated in place. The retainers (the thin discs that fit over the keepers) are what hold the locks in place on the valvestem.
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Advanced
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 50
Likes: 1
From: Stephenville TX
I'm assuming from your question that you have not changed valve springs on a head before - trust me, it takes a HELL of a hit to do what you described. I would pull the head and take it to a professional, expect minimum a new valve and guide.Mr. P.
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 4,933
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From: San Rafael CA
When the OP says ....
When it got hit, the right valve cover was also slightly hit and it moved out of place, enaugh to get in the way of the first spring
My first thought is ....
... a hit hard enough to intrude that far into the engine compartment ... to have moved the valve cover "out of place" .... what does the vehicle's frame look like ???
That car has gotta be a total wreck ... why worry about the engine ??
When it got hit, the right valve cover was also slightly hit and it moved out of place, enaugh to get in the way of the first spring
My first thought is ....
... a hit hard enough to intrude that far into the engine compartment ... to have moved the valve cover "out of place" .... what does the vehicle's frame look like ???That car has gotta be a total wreck ... why worry about the engine ??
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 887
Likes: 15
From: Central CT
St. Jude Donor '16
When the OP says ....
When it got hit, the right valve cover was also slightly hit and it moved out of place, enaugh to get in the way of the first spring
My first thought is .... ... a hit hard enough to intrude that far into the engine compartment ... to have moved the valve cover "out of place" .... what does the vehicle's frame look like ???
That car has gotta be a total wreck ... why worry about the engine ??
When it got hit, the right valve cover was also slightly hit and it moved out of place, enaugh to get in the way of the first spring
My first thought is ....
... a hit hard enough to intrude that far into the engine compartment ... to have moved the valve cover "out of place" .... what does the vehicle's frame look like ???That car has gotta be a total wreck ... why worry about the engine ??
But thanks for you opinion...
Last edited by Konrad; Aug 25, 2007 at 12:59 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2002
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From: San Marcos Texas
Intermediate
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 39
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From: Noblesville Indiana
That had to be a one in a million hit to knock one keeper out of one valve and leave the rest of the motor relatively untouched... How's the intake look?
Pull the rockers and look at the spring heights. If one is lower than the others you have a bent valve. If not, do like Red98C5 said and put compressed air to the cylinder just to double check. If you don't hear any massive leaks, throw the other keeper back in and go on your way.
If you do have a bent valve, take the head to a machine shop and have them check the guide for cracks. I'd also look all the pushrods over really well since you obviously had some funky stuff going on there.
There is a chance the piston is trashed. If the valve is only a little lower than the others I would tend to think you're alright though. Unless you have access to a borescope it'll be impossible to tell for sure until you pull the head.
Pull the rockers and look at the spring heights. If one is lower than the others you have a bent valve. If not, do like Red98C5 said and put compressed air to the cylinder just to double check. If you don't hear any massive leaks, throw the other keeper back in and go on your way.
If you do have a bent valve, take the head to a machine shop and have them check the guide for cracks. I'd also look all the pushrods over really well since you obviously had some funky stuff going on there.
There is a chance the piston is trashed. If the valve is only a little lower than the others I would tend to think you're alright though. Unless you have access to a borescope it'll be impossible to tell for sure until you pull the head.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 887
Likes: 15
From: Central CT
St. Jude Donor '16
That had to be a one in a million hit to knock one keeper out of one valve and leave the rest of the motor relatively untouched... How's the intake look?
Pull the rockers and look at the spring heights. If one is lower than the others you have a bent valve. If not, do like Red98C5 said and put compressed air to the cylinder just to double check. If you don't hear any massive leaks, throw the other keeper back in and go on your way.
If you do have a bent valve, take the head to a machine shop and have them check the guide for cracks. I'd also look all the pushrods over really well since you obviously had some funky stuff going on there.
There is a chance the piston is trashed. If the valve is only a little lower than the others I would tend to think you're alright though. Unless you have access to a borescope it'll be impossible to tell for sure until you pull the head.
Pull the rockers and look at the spring heights. If one is lower than the others you have a bent valve. If not, do like Red98C5 said and put compressed air to the cylinder just to double check. If you don't hear any massive leaks, throw the other keeper back in and go on your way.
If you do have a bent valve, take the head to a machine shop and have them check the guide for cracks. I'd also look all the pushrods over really well since you obviously had some funky stuff going on there.
There is a chance the piston is trashed. If the valve is only a little lower than the others I would tend to think you're alright though. Unless you have access to a borescope it'll be impossible to tell for sure until you pull the head.
Thanks for everyone's input.