Heads/CAM install has gone horribly wrong! HELP!!
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 168
Likes: 1
From: Castle Rock Colorado
Heads/CAM install has gone horribly wrong! HELP!!
I just finished my heads/cam install on my 99' a4.
228/228 112 cam
Trick Flow heads
new rockers, pushrods, oil pump, etc etc
I went to start the car up and NO oil pressure (just sits at zero)
I primed the oil pump by hooking up a hose the the inlet threads on the oil filter but still no luck.
I know it is not a gauge issue/ sending unit as there is no oil under the driver's valve cover.
I MAY have forgot the seal on the pickup tube for the oil pump.
Before tearing it down, I want to get some input from other people.
Even if I forgot the seal, shouldnt there at least be some pressure? Obviously, I would want to go back and install it, but i'm not sure if I forgot to install it. My old pump still has the seal, but I think my new melling pump had the seal installed.
If it is the seal, can I get to it by dropping the oil pan? I just need to get to the one bolt for the pickup tube.
Help!!!!
228/228 112 cam
Trick Flow heads
new rockers, pushrods, oil pump, etc etc
I went to start the car up and NO oil pressure (just sits at zero)
I primed the oil pump by hooking up a hose the the inlet threads on the oil filter but still no luck.
I know it is not a gauge issue/ sending unit as there is no oil under the driver's valve cover.
I MAY have forgot the seal on the pickup tube for the oil pump.
Before tearing it down, I want to get some input from other people.
Even if I forgot the seal, shouldnt there at least be some pressure? Obviously, I would want to go back and install it, but i'm not sure if I forgot to install it. My old pump still has the seal, but I think my new melling pump had the seal installed.
If it is the seal, can I get to it by dropping the oil pan? I just need to get to the one bolt for the pickup tube.
Help!!!!
Last edited by bkel33; Dec 24, 2007 at 06:39 PM. Reason: addition to description
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,172
Likes: 1
From: Sartell Minnesota
i think if you did forget the tube seal it will not allow oil to pick up and will just keep dropping back into the pan. i'd also branch out to guess a bad pump. That really sucks you can get to the pickup tube by pulling the pan but you gotta pull the WHOLE thing and not just the bottom pan. i believe you can do THAT by dropping the rack. best of luck man
you can get to the pickup tube by pulling the pan but you gotta pull the WHOLE thing and not just the bottom pan. i believe you can do THAT by dropping the rack. best of luck man
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 168
Likes: 1
From: Castle Rock Colorado
i think if you did forget the tube seal it will not allow oil to pick up and will just keep dropping back into the pan. i'd also branch out to guess a bad pump. That really sucks you can get to the pickup tube by pulling the pan but you gotta pull the WHOLE thing and not just the bottom pan. i believe you can do THAT by dropping the rack. best of luck man
you can get to the pickup tube by pulling the pan but you gotta pull the WHOLE thing and not just the bottom pan. i believe you can do THAT by dropping the rack. best of luck manI might as well just take out the waterpump, pulley, etc to get to the front cover.
Any ideas from anyone else?
Why would the pump show 0psi unless it were bad?
This is a new oil pump, I dont think its the pump.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 19,493
Likes: 1,178
From: Dyer, IN
i think if you did forget the tube seal it will not allow oil to pick up and will just keep dropping back into the pan. i'd also branch out to guess a bad pump. That really sucks you can get to the pickup tube by pulling the pan but you gotta pull the WHOLE thing and not just the bottom pan. i believe you can do THAT by dropping the rack. best of luck man
you can get to the pickup tube by pulling the pan but you gotta pull the WHOLE thing and not just the bottom pan. i believe you can do THAT by dropping the rack. best of luck manFix it dude, it sounds like you'll have a great setup when you're done!
Tech Contributor
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 32,910
Likes: 2,402
From: Anthony TX
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
WOW! Without an O ring or the correct O ring,,,,,the oil pump will NOT take a suction on the pick up tube! PERIOD! If you have doubts, rip it back down and recheck everything. If there is an O ring in the pick up tube/pump connection, before you reinstall everything,,,,,find the smoking gun!
BC
BC
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 25,889
Likes: 7
From: Virginia Beach
CI 3-5-6-7-8 Veteran
Only thing you can do is take a few days off and then tear into it again... **** happens.
I was so scared doing the o-rind that I put it on 3 times and used a handheld mirror to check it.
I was so scared doing the o-rind that I put it on 3 times and used a handheld mirror to check it.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 794
Likes: 13
From: Angleton TX
I'm kinda suprised you are looking for someone to tell you what to do. No one on this forum knows what you did better than you. If you are confident that no oil is circulating, I would not turn that motor over again. You know what you have to do, just do it. You wouldn't be the first person who made a mistake with the oil pump ( or pinched a seal).
Fix it dude, it sounds like you'll have a great setup when you're done!
Fix it dude, it sounds like you'll have a great setup when you're done!
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,194
Likes: 10
From: New Smyrna Beach Florida
Hey, everybody makes mistakes. Take a few days off the project and enjoy your Holidays. As Bill Curlee said, don't reinstall everything till you've found the problem. Easy for us to say, we are not in your shoes. Anyway, once you get it right, should be a blast to drive. Merry Christmas.
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Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 2,498
Likes: 4
From: Brentwood TN
"Take a few days off" is a good tip. Whatever you do, do NOT even turn the engine over, let alone start it. If it didn't have oil pressue the last time, you can bet it won't be there this time. You'll want to go ahead and buy another set of rod and main bearings, and as long as you're this far into it, pull the lifters and look down the hole to see if there is cam lobe scoring. If you see ANY signs of scuffing or copper on the rod or main bearings, you need to pull the cam as well and replace the cam bearings since the top end sees oil first (if the bottom end is scuffed, plan on the top side being scuffed as well).
Keep us posted.
Charlie
Keep us posted.
Charlie
Tech Contributor
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 32,910
Likes: 2,402
From: Anthony TX
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
PLEASE keep us up to date on your re inspection and we can provide support and more recommendations. We will help you solve the issue.
Like Cobra 4B stated,,,I checked the O ring a couple of times on my buddies cam install also!
Its a 99 cent killer! Thats why I don't do AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSIONS! Theres a S$IT TON of 99 cent killers to contend with!
BC
Like Cobra 4B stated,,,I checked the O ring a couple of times on my buddies cam install also!
Its a 99 cent killer! Thats why I don't do AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSIONS! Theres a S$IT TON of 99 cent killers to contend with! BC
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 168
Likes: 1
From: Castle Rock Colorado
All I can do is tear it down and fix it. It didn't bother me the first time, right?
It is very tedious, but i'm pretty sure it is the o-ring.
I should be thankful and happy I know the issue and the motor is fine.
Just trying to keep a positive attitude.
Back to the dungeon!
Thanks for the help guys! I'll keep you posted!
MERRY CHRISTMAS all!
It is very tedious, but i'm pretty sure it is the o-ring.
I should be thankful and happy I know the issue and the motor is fine.
Just trying to keep a positive attitude.
Back to the dungeon!
Thanks for the help guys! I'll keep you posted!
MERRY CHRISTMAS all!
Tech Contributor
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 19,493
Likes: 1,178
From: Dyer, IN
Bad advice man on the first half. Dont make the guy feel like ****, give him a pep talk. Dude... you forgot the Oring. it sucks bad but go back and install it before you mess something up. I would hate to see all your money go down the drain in less than a minute. You can do it man. just take the first step and say screw it and dive right back in there. Good luck. I went throught the same crap you did. Follow your steps... you'll do just fine.....
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 25,889
Likes: 7
From: Virginia Beach
CI 3-5-6-7-8 Veteran
^ I agree... the OP just needs to be talked into tearing into it again. I for one hate having to re-do work. He's looknig for an out or just rying to get his head in line with starting over.
I'll say it again... take a few days off to clear your head and rip into it again.
I'll say it again... take a few days off to clear your head and rip into it again.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,145
Likes: 1
From: Bradenton FLORIDA
WOW! Without an O ring or the correct O ring,,,,,the oil pump will NOT take a suction on the pick up tube! PERIOD! If you have doubts, rip it back down and recheck everything. If there is an O ring in the pick up tube/pump connection, before you reinstall everything,,,,,find the smoking gun!
BC
BC
Absolutly.
Team Owner
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 21,473
Likes: 356
From: Palmdale, Ca----- 2009 Cyber Gray 4LT A6 F55 452 RWHP 422 RWTQ- RIP 1998 C5 734 RWHP & 585 RWTQ-----
It sounds as if there is a possible plug in the new unit that was not removed after the factory shipped it.
Just go through it maticulously and find out where it is not primming or a gap that is open thus not allowing the pressure to build!
I hope all goes well but the culprit sounds like the new oil pump!
Thanks,Matt
Just go through it maticulously and find out where it is not primming or a gap that is open thus not allowing the pressure to build!
I hope all goes well but the culprit sounds like the new oil pump!
Thanks,Matt
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 168
Likes: 1
From: Castle Rock Colorado
The problem was that I did indeed forget to install the o-ring.
I have about 2 more hours left untill the car is finished - hopefully for good this time!
Thanks guys!
I can't wait to get it to the dyno to see the results of my PITA install.
Did I mention I also installed 100 shot of nitrous?
I'm hoping for 425 rwhp and 500 OTB.
Brett
I have about 2 more hours left untill the car is finished - hopefully for good this time!
Thanks guys!
I can't wait to get it to the dyno to see the results of my PITA install.
Did I mention I also installed 100 shot of nitrous?
I'm hoping for 425 rwhp and 500 OTB.
Brett
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,145
Likes: 1
From: Bradenton FLORIDA
The problem was that I did indeed forget to install the o-ring.
I have about 2 more hours left untill the car is finished - hopefully for good this time!
Thanks guys!
I can't wait to get it to the dyno to see the results of my PITA install.
Did I mention I also installed 100 shot of nitrous?
I'm hoping for 425 rwhp and 500 OTB.
Brett
I have about 2 more hours left untill the car is finished - hopefully for good this time!
Thanks guys!
I can't wait to get it to the dyno to see the results of my PITA install.
Did I mention I also installed 100 shot of nitrous?
I'm hoping for 425 rwhp and 500 OTB.
Brett
Good Luck! Keep us informed
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 2,498
Likes: 4
From: Brentwood TN
The problem was that I did indeed forget to install the o-ring.
I have about 2 more hours left untill the car is finished - hopefully for good this time!
Thanks guys!
I can't wait to get it to the dyno to see the results of my PITA install.
Did I mention I also installed 100 shot of nitrous?
I'm hoping for 425 rwhp and 500 OTB.
Brett
I have about 2 more hours left untill the car is finished - hopefully for good this time!
Thanks guys!
I can't wait to get it to the dyno to see the results of my PITA install.
Did I mention I also installed 100 shot of nitrous?
I'm hoping for 425 rwhp and 500 OTB.
Brett
Charlie
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 54,204
Likes: 180
From: S.W. Ohio. . . . . . NRA Life Member
curious; can you induce oil flow/pressure in the LS1 without running the engine (like we did with small blocks; long screwdriver bit down through the removed distrubutor, rotated via an electric drill) ?
Tech Contributor
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 32,910
Likes: 2,402
From: Anthony TX
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
Mike
The LS1/6 oil pump is crank shaft driven so thats not an option any more. The oil pump is attached to the front snout of the crank shaft. You could probably induce pressure through a connection in place of the filter but that would be really difficult and time consuming. It would be easier to fix what is wrong!
You can see the pump on the crank in the pic above.
BC