this is disturbing
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 5,529
Likes: 1,943
From: Austin Texas
Re: this is disturbing (joe2gaan)
We'll what would you do if you were GM with the following senario:
If we keep the RPM Red-lime at (pick an RPM) we will see only 13 failures this year from (our barely tollerable) materials and our (pretty tollerable) assembly methods. But if we increase the Red line by 100 RPM that 13 engines goes to 50 engines, at 200 RPM goes to 200 engines, at 300 RPM goes to 500 engines lost, and at 400 RPM we might loose 1000 engines. Every engine represents a customer with dissapointments, unnecessary stress, and a potential to loose this customer for the rest of his/her buying career.
Well what would you do if you were GM?
{The numbers are made up--but the potential is real!}
If we keep the RPM Red-lime at (pick an RPM) we will see only 13 failures this year from (our barely tollerable) materials and our (pretty tollerable) assembly methods. But if we increase the Red line by 100 RPM that 13 engines goes to 50 engines, at 200 RPM goes to 200 engines, at 300 RPM goes to 500 engines lost, and at 400 RPM we might loose 1000 engines. Every engine represents a customer with dissapointments, unnecessary stress, and a potential to loose this customer for the rest of his/her buying career.
Well what would you do if you were GM?
{The numbers are made up--but the potential is real!}
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 26,714
Likes: 344
From: Houston, TX
Re: this is disturbing (joe2gaan)
Anyone care to comment on this possible scenario. The GM dealer plugs in his diagnostic machine that is the only way he is really going to find out how many RPM's the engine has turned, or what the red line is actually set for.
Does his machine re-program your module back to stock settings at the same time?
Does his machine re-program your module back to stock settings at the same time?
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,949
Likes: 10
From: Monticello MN
Re: this is disturbing (joe2gaan)
I would have one question on this. I have read on the forum that Powerloader programming is not able to be detected by the dealer. I have seen supposed quotes from Steve on this issue. I believe the Powerloader resets the rev limiter to 6400 rpm from the stock 6200 rpm. How could the Powerloader reset not be detected and something like the Hypertech found out? Does anyone know? Does the PCM record the highest rpm setting and lock it in history? Or, if one resets the rev limiter to the original setting, can the dealer still see that it was changed, even if it wasn't "bumped" against?
Ed
Ed
Race Director
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 15,299
Likes: 33
From: Houston Texas
Re: this is disturbing (C5XTASY)
I think the bottom line is that your taking a risk. A lot of techs probably won't know, but you may get one that does. I'm not surprised this voids the GM warranty.
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,366
Likes: 0
From: America
Re: this is disturbing (oceanaire)
Maybe so, but it takes away ANY legal recourse you have..............and MOST of us are not steenken' **** rich..........I NEED my warranty......if for nothing else than a leg to stand on, IF a big issue arises......
And judging from the posts i have seen in the 3 months I have owned my Z, I can easily see a reason to keep my warranty.....as P poor as it may be......
Removal of a fart stain from a seat cost $112,000.00................ :jester
And judging from the posts i have seen in the 3 months I have owned my Z, I can easily see a reason to keep my warranty.....as P poor as it may be......
Removal of a fart stain from a seat cost $112,000.00................ :jester
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 7,805
Likes: 0
From: If you read this, you'll go blind
Re: this is disturbing (joe2gaan)
Dealers can only re-program PCM's, not look in them. A service tech at best will update the PCM with the latest software from GM.
The only way they can tell is if they push the engine to redline and note what RPM it stopped at. Then they may wonder . . .
The only way they can tell is if they push the engine to redline and note what RPM it stopped at. Then they may wonder . . .
Corvette Stories
The Best of Corvette for Corvette Enthusiasts
Top 10 Most Expensive Corvettes Ever Sold on Bring A Trailer
Brett Foote
10 Things Every Corvette Owner Needs (2026 Edition)
Michael S. Palmer
8 Most "Only Corvette Owners Understand" Quirks and Problems
Pouria Savadkouei
10 Reasons the C6 Z06 is Still A Performance Benchmark After 20 Years
Joe Kucinski
How Much Horsepower Every Corvette Engine "LOST" in 1972
Joe Kucinski
Top 10 DOs and DON'Ts for Protecting Your Convertible Top!
Michael S. Palmer
Top 10 Most Explosive Corvettes Ever Made: Power-to-Weight Ratio Ranked!
Joe Kucinski
150 hp to 1,250 hp: Every Corvette Generation Compared by the Specs That Matter
Joe Kucinski
8 Coolest Corvette Pace Cars (and Replicas) of All Time
Verdad Gallardo
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,949
Likes: 10
From: Monticello MN
Re: this is disturbing (ZO6LS6)
I also can see the reason for engine warranty voiding if the rev limiter is reset and the stock limiter setting exceeded. However I really don't believe a 100-200 rpm bump will do anything. I believe that if it did, you'd see alot of posting from Powerloader owners about screwing up their engine. Personally, I haven't seen even one of those.
I sure would like to see a post here from someone who actually knows for sure, by experience (a tech?), that GM cannot tell if that rev limiter has been reset and then returned to stock. Anyone?
Ed
I sure would like to see a post here from someone who actually knows for sure, by experience (a tech?), that GM cannot tell if that rev limiter has been reset and then returned to stock. Anyone?
Ed
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,949
Likes: 10
From: Monticello MN
Re: this is disturbing (Buckmaster)
Don't tell them! Can they find out? Yes, but most Chevy techs will not know to look at this nor do they even know what the rev limiter is set at!
Ed
[Modified by C5XTASY, 5:09 PM 12/13/2001]
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 54,204
Likes: 180
From: S.W. Ohio. . . . . . NRA Life Member
Re: this is disturbing (C5XTASY)
Dealers can only re-program PCM's, not look in them.
which one is it?
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,366
Likes: 0
From: America
Re: this is disturbing (Mike Mercury)
Mike, Lou G......of LGM Motorsports, posted on here a few weeksback, about being DENIED warranty work, on an engine because of "RPM"s MAX Exceeded".........this was supposedly downloaded off of an onboard system.
If I remember correctly, RAT was in on this convo.....maybe he or Lou will chime in..........
There is incorporated into these unit's a feature called "Abuse Management System", do not know if it is part of the PCM, or a different piece altogether.........maybe kewlbrz, or a teched will let us in on the poop................... :yesnod:
If I remember correctly, RAT was in on this convo.....maybe he or Lou will chime in..........
There is incorporated into these unit's a feature called "Abuse Management System", do not know if it is part of the PCM, or a different piece altogether.........maybe kewlbrz, or a teched will let us in on the poop................... :yesnod:
Former Vendor
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 10,976
Likes: 21
From: FL
St. Jude Donor '13
Re: this is disturbing (NeedSpeed)
NeedSpeed is correct :yesnod: We cant change it,and there is only one way for us to check what it is set at ;)
[Modified by C-5 TECH, 9:20 PM 12/13/2001]
[Modified by C-5 TECH, 9:20 PM 12/13/2001]
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,949
Likes: 10
From: Monticello MN
Re: this is disturbing (C-5 TECH)
NeedSpeed is correct :yesnod:
However, one can't forget that the rev limiter setting has a purpose, and that purpose is not to save GM money. It's to add boundaries and longevity to that marvelous LS1.:)
Ed
[Modified by C5XTASY, 8:35 PM 12/13/2001]