I have .040 cometic gaskets that I am using on a 97 ls1 with lingenfleter edlebrock heads and arp head bolts.

I had a very hard time getting the passenger side to stop leaking coolant, but after the 4th retorque, it stopped.

When I start the car up and run it, after the initial idle, there is blue smoke coming from the exhaust especially when it starts surging with the cam (or because of the oil in the cyl).

My first suspicion is (of course) the head that was so hards to seal is leaking oil into the cylinder.

My second thought is that I could have a bad valve seal as I had the patriot dual extreme kit installed by a local machine shop that milled the heads. I have not herd of patriot seals leaking oil. The last head I herd had a problem like this was the PRC ported darts.

Thirdly and most unlikely, is the PCV system is modified to work on my 97 and but is the center bolt configuration. Could I be sucking too many vapors and causing oil burning necause my hose doesn't come from the valley cover but rather the 2 valve covers. I guess this is easy enough to eliminate by disconnecting the hoses from the TB.

I'm going to check the spark plugs to see if there is evidence of fouling.

Any other simple checks I can perform to help narrow down where the source is coming from?

Any experience or comment is welcome

 

Did you use thread sealant on the rocker arm bolts?

If not, go back and do so. With most ported heads, the rocker boltholes extend into the intake runners. If you don't seal the threads when installing the rocker bolts, oil will seep down through the threads, and drip right onto the intake valve, causing a lot of oil burning at startup.

 

My first thought, an dlet me be the second to suggest it.
If you want to you can pull the plugs to see which one or more is causing the smoke if you did the sealant thing. Also, not sure if your PCV is hooked up right. You should have one hose going between the throttle body and the passenger valve cover. If you have the old style PCV you should have a port at the back of the drivers valve cover that goes around the back to a 'Y' connection and connects to one leg of that. The next leg of the 'Y' should go to the rear facing hose barb on the cover, and the last leg should go to your PCV valve which should be connected to the intake manifold right behind the throttle body. If it's not hooked up like that you may be correct in the thinking that your PCV is pulling excessive oil into the intake.

 

Yes. Remember there is lower pressure in the intake port than above it. Go to the auto parts store and pick up some copper Permatex. Make sure it's the sensor safe type. I forget the part #, but it's the highest heat range, to ~700 degrees.

 

I am curious as to why you had so many issues sealing the cometics? How did you prep the block and heads?

 

I recently installed AFR's and yes, the rocker bolt on the intake side needs to be sealed as the hole extends into the port. I picked up some silicone sealent (kind like a paste) from the auto parts store, usually hanging on the same shelf as thread lock.

I also had a coolant leak - solved that by coating the gaskets with copper gasket sealant and redoing everything.

Good luck!

 

try retorqing the intake manifold as well. that could also be causing your oil contamination.

 

I think I have the coolant leak nailed

I hope sealing these studs does the trick, seems to be unanimous here. I know the intake rocker bolts extend into the port, I debated about cutting them to shorten them.

I didn't cut them.

 

Could you explain this?

I'm not clear on why the intake manifold would have oil in it short of what get sucked in from the PCV system?

 

You know I don't get it either.

It was only on one side. I really thought I was being maticulous, using a razor blade to shave and clean old gasket material off where needed and a shop cloth to polish it up.

I retorqued the heads the first time and ther were definately some loose bolts on the bottom row. after it still leaked I backed them all off 1/8 turn and hit them again. There was ever so slight a drip, maybe from when I loosened them all again, so I retorqued to a higher setting.

Where I went wrong originally is using the Permetex assembly lube instead of either 10w-30 or ARP moley lube. So the initial torque sequence was done at 80 ft lbs rather than at 85. I split the difference as the ARP instruction said to torque it to 85 ftlb with 10w-30 and like 72 with the ARP lube. So there u go.

Again it was fine on one head (drivers), even when It was retorqued there just wasn't any movement even at 85' lbs

Maybe I just wasn't as careful with cleaning the passenger head or I waited to long after I put the assembly lube on the bolts before I torqued them down. It makes me want to pull it off just to see. I can do it quick as heck now, but it's a mess with the cooland then retorquing the heads after warm up but on the plus side I could use the copper gasket stuff to help seal and I wouldn't be leaving anything to chance.

I'm going to pick up the copper gasket stuff now.

 

OK, this sounds like the 04 valve cover setup, but you didn't complete with the 04 valley cover, which has the PCV built in. Your setup sounds like you have two lines connected to the throttle body, is this the case? The throttle body to passenger side valve cover is the fresh air into the motor, the rear of the valve covers to the intake manifold with the PCV in line is the dirty side of the system. I think you may have this set up incorrectly.

 

The intake manifold has nothing to do with it, these motors arent like old school SBC's where the intake mani would come off exposing the pushrods and lifters.

 

See below.

 

agreed,

First priority after work today

Thanks Nuts

 

I sealed all the rocker arm studs and it is still burning oil

The PCV lines I had correct, just no valve in line from the return, so I will get one tonight on my way to the gym and I'll probably try to thread the nipple into the rear passenger's side valve cover to make sure the system's balanced and for all intensive purposes, just like it was originally.

Again, No oil at start up and warm up( even idle is nice), but once it warms up the idle starts to fluctuate, and it starts smoking and it stalls out.

I feel like it's inevitable I'm going to have to pull the heads again (5th time). I would really recommend using stock head gaskets and bolts to any one who is trying to make that decision.

 

Not good to hear as I have a set of Cometics sitting in my work bench.

I am not sure at this point how the head gaskets could cause this, i.e., where the leak path would be. I would suspect a valve seal or possibly rings depending the miles on the motor.

Also, ARP revised their torque specifications on the studs last January, not sure about the bolts.

 

let me finish my experiment here before you sell them off. I went w/ the cometics for the quench but mainly so I wouldn't have to mill as much. The uncertianty and diffulculty of having the one side leak coolant after several re torquings leaves some doubt in my mind as to their seal.

I didn't get the pcv installed untill too late, my neighbors would $hit if I cranked that thing over right now and the throttle started fluctuating all over.

Part of me wants to do it anyway...

It sounds like some of the guys are having succes coating the gasket in the copper gasket stuff, but what a mess that would make

The valve seals still could be the issue as well. I havn't found anything indicating patriot valve seals have issues and I don't think my machine guy had any trouble. All still avenues I need to look at.

My gut still says head gasket seal, but i hope not.

 

Looks like routing the pcv system adjustments of:

-Threading in a 1/8" brass pipe elbow to the passenger side valve cover to hook the return hose to the rear passenger side in addition to the driver's side.

-Adding new pcv valve in line

Has solved the smoking problems thus far.

Thanks for everyone's help!

 

I had Cometics leak twice on me in my 346 build.

I'm running them again on the 403 with no problems - go figure.

 

I used .040 cometics when I installed my ported heads a few weeks ago. I used brand new stock head bolts from GM and I didn't put any kind of sealant on the rocker bolts and I don't have any leaks anywhere and I haven't seen any smoke either. Surely those issues would have showed up on the dyno I would think?