Emissions Laws FAQ by Katech Performance
06-03-2008, 10:46 AM
#1
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Emissions Laws FAQ by Katech Performance
Due to the increase in emissions related questions with regard to modifications, we have decided to post this FAQ as a guide for consumers. Please be advised that this should not constitute legal advice or be construed as an exhaustive explanation of the law. This matter is extremely complicated and varies with different jurisdictions (states) and is intended to give our understanding of the law and how our policy is written to fully comply with the law. Any questions you may have can be directed to Katech for further discussion. Should we not be able to adequately respond, Katech will attempt to obtain additional information for purposes of clarity about applicable regulations and their enforcement.
CATALYTIC CONVERTERS
Our understanding is that the time before a catalytic converter can be replaced is now between 5-8 years depending on the original warranty from the catalyst manufacturer (not the vehicle manufacturer). Furthermore, they must be replaced with converters certified by the manufacturer for each specific application.
Another permissible installation not stated in the EPA document above is a system with a C.A.R.B. (California Air Resource Board) E.O. (Executive Order) number. Executive Orders are granted on systems which have passed C.A.R.B. emissions testing for a specific vehicle. The EO number is only applicable to those vehicles stated within. We are not aware of any specific EO numbers for the entire exhaust system with catalytic converter replacements.
Fines for businesses:
Up to $25,000 per violation
Federal EPA has the authority to suspend business and pursue legal action
How does Katech policy handle this?
Katech Performance does not install non E.O. long tube headers or aftermarket catalytic converters in registered street cars in the USA.
Exceptions in which Katech would install headers or remove catalysts:
1. Race cars. A race car is defined as a vehicle which is not registered in any state, has no license plate, and is trailered to and from Katech. It is never operated on public roads or highways, only at sanctioned race tracks. If Katech suspects that the vehicle is used on the street, work will stop immediately, the vehicle will be returned to stock and appropriate charges for this labor billed to the customer.
2. Hot Rods. A hot rod is defined as a vehicle built in 1964 or prior if registered in California or 1969 or prior if registered in any other state. There may be some instances where this does not apply.
3. International. Vehicles shipped outside the United States are the responsibility of the customer to research local laws regarding emissions. Katech is not responsible for emissions laws outside the United States, but in conjunction with the customer’s research will make all reasonable attempts to make the system meet appropriate emissions statutes. There may be some instances where this does not apply.
For each of these cases, a document will be signed by the customer stating as such.
Vehicles already equipped
In such a case, Katech will document the car as it arrives with photos and the customer will sign a document stating the vehicle was already equipped and Katech did not perform the work. Furthermore – Katech will not perform ANY work to the exhaust system between the engine and catalytic converters, therefore no changes will be made to this portion of the customer’s exhaust system unless they are requesting it be returned to legal factory equipment level. Katech will perform cat-back muffler installations as they do not impact the emissions of a vehicle.
What can I do about this?
The green movement in the United States is only gaining more steam. The EPA will soon be enforcing these laws more aggressively than ever before. The laws can’t be changed. So what can you do? Call your favorite header manufacturer and tell them you want to buy a C.A.R.B. certified system for your car. If these systems are developed they could be installed on any vehicle in 50 states without worry. If you or the business installing were ever questioned by the EPA or California Air Resource Board, the EO document would be shown and your vehicle would be legal.
SUPERCHARGER / TURBOCHARGER SYSTEMS
Katech Policy:
Supercharger & turbocharger systems can have a negative impact on emissions. Katech Performance will only install supercharger or turbocharger systems that have attained a C.A.R.B. EO number. Additionally, they can only be installed on vehicles which are listed in that EO and installed exactly as required per the instructions. No deviations from the C.A.R.B. certified systems will be made including changes to calibration.
Exceptions in which Katech would install non-EO systems:
1. Race cars. A race car is defined as a vehicle which is not registered in any state, has no license plate, and is trailered to and from Katech. It is never operated on public roads or highways, only at sanctioned race tracks. If Katech suspects that the vehicle is used on the street, work will stop immediately, the vehicle will be returned to stock and appropriate charges for this labor billed to the customer.
2. Hot Rods. A hot rod is defined as a vehicle built in 1964 or prior if registered in California or 1969 or prior if registered in any other state. There may be some instances where this does not apply.
3. International. Vehicles shipped outside the United States are the responsibility of the customer to research local laws regarding emissions. Katech is not responsible for emissions laws outside the United States, but in conjunction with the customer’s research will make all reasonable attempts to make the system meet appropriate emissions statutes. There may be some instances where this does not apply.
For each of these cases, a document will be signed by the customer stating as such.
I hope this FAQ has clarified questions and if you have any more please ask. We will be adding more to this as more information becomes available.
CATALYTIC CONVERTERS
United States Environmental Protection Agency
November 5th, 1987
EPA guidelines for use of aftermarket converters
Permissible installations
Vehicles under 5 years / 50,000 miles
1. Converter is already missing
2. State or local program has determined that currently installed converter has been damaged or fuel-switched
Vehicles over 5 years / 50,000 miles
1. Any replacement situation where need has been established and documented
Prohibited installations
For all vehicles regardless of mileage
1. Converter is present and functioning properly
2. Replacement under recall or warranty (5 years / 50,000 miles)
3. Vehicle is returning from overseas use
Installation requirements
Aftermarket converters must be:
1. Installed in the same location as original with other required converters
2. Same type as original (oxidation, 3-way, or 3 way+oxidation (dual bed))
3. Installed only on vehicles as specified by the converter manufacturer
4. Properly connected to the existing air injection components
5. Accompanied by warranty card filled in by the installed (if new converter)
November 5th, 1987
EPA guidelines for use of aftermarket converters
Permissible installations
Vehicles under 5 years / 50,000 miles
1. Converter is already missing
2. State or local program has determined that currently installed converter has been damaged or fuel-switched
Vehicles over 5 years / 50,000 miles
1. Any replacement situation where need has been established and documented
Prohibited installations
For all vehicles regardless of mileage
1. Converter is present and functioning properly
2. Replacement under recall or warranty (5 years / 50,000 miles)
3. Vehicle is returning from overseas use
Installation requirements
Aftermarket converters must be:
1. Installed in the same location as original with other required converters
2. Same type as original (oxidation, 3-way, or 3 way+oxidation (dual bed))
3. Installed only on vehicles as specified by the converter manufacturer
4. Properly connected to the existing air injection components
5. Accompanied by warranty card filled in by the installed (if new converter)
Another permissible installation not stated in the EPA document above is a system with a C.A.R.B. (California Air Resource Board) E.O. (Executive Order) number. Executive Orders are granted on systems which have passed C.A.R.B. emissions testing for a specific vehicle. The EO number is only applicable to those vehicles stated within. We are not aware of any specific EO numbers for the entire exhaust system with catalytic converter replacements.
Fines for businesses:
Up to $25,000 per violation
Federal EPA has the authority to suspend business and pursue legal action
How does Katech policy handle this?
Katech Performance does not install non E.O. long tube headers or aftermarket catalytic converters in registered street cars in the USA.
Exceptions in which Katech would install headers or remove catalysts:
1. Race cars. A race car is defined as a vehicle which is not registered in any state, has no license plate, and is trailered to and from Katech. It is never operated on public roads or highways, only at sanctioned race tracks. If Katech suspects that the vehicle is used on the street, work will stop immediately, the vehicle will be returned to stock and appropriate charges for this labor billed to the customer.
2. Hot Rods. A hot rod is defined as a vehicle built in 1964 or prior if registered in California or 1969 or prior if registered in any other state. There may be some instances where this does not apply.
3. International. Vehicles shipped outside the United States are the responsibility of the customer to research local laws regarding emissions. Katech is not responsible for emissions laws outside the United States, but in conjunction with the customer’s research will make all reasonable attempts to make the system meet appropriate emissions statutes. There may be some instances where this does not apply.
For each of these cases, a document will be signed by the customer stating as such.
Vehicles already equipped
In such a case, Katech will document the car as it arrives with photos and the customer will sign a document stating the vehicle was already equipped and Katech did not perform the work. Furthermore – Katech will not perform ANY work to the exhaust system between the engine and catalytic converters, therefore no changes will be made to this portion of the customer’s exhaust system unless they are requesting it be returned to legal factory equipment level. Katech will perform cat-back muffler installations as they do not impact the emissions of a vehicle.
What can I do about this?
The green movement in the United States is only gaining more steam. The EPA will soon be enforcing these laws more aggressively than ever before. The laws can’t be changed. So what can you do? Call your favorite header manufacturer and tell them you want to buy a C.A.R.B. certified system for your car. If these systems are developed they could be installed on any vehicle in 50 states without worry. If you or the business installing were ever questioned by the EPA or California Air Resource Board, the EO document would be shown and your vehicle would be legal.
SUPERCHARGER / TURBOCHARGER SYSTEMS
Katech Policy:
Supercharger & turbocharger systems can have a negative impact on emissions. Katech Performance will only install supercharger or turbocharger systems that have attained a C.A.R.B. EO number. Additionally, they can only be installed on vehicles which are listed in that EO and installed exactly as required per the instructions. No deviations from the C.A.R.B. certified systems will be made including changes to calibration.
Exceptions in which Katech would install non-EO systems:
1. Race cars. A race car is defined as a vehicle which is not registered in any state, has no license plate, and is trailered to and from Katech. It is never operated on public roads or highways, only at sanctioned race tracks. If Katech suspects that the vehicle is used on the street, work will stop immediately, the vehicle will be returned to stock and appropriate charges for this labor billed to the customer.
2. Hot Rods. A hot rod is defined as a vehicle built in 1964 or prior if registered in California or 1969 or prior if registered in any other state. There may be some instances where this does not apply.
3. International. Vehicles shipped outside the United States are the responsibility of the customer to research local laws regarding emissions. Katech is not responsible for emissions laws outside the United States, but in conjunction with the customer’s research will make all reasonable attempts to make the system meet appropriate emissions statutes. There may be some instances where this does not apply.
For each of these cases, a document will be signed by the customer stating as such.
I hope this FAQ has clarified questions and if you have any more please ask. We will be adding more to this as more information becomes available.
06-03-2008, 12:54 PM
#3
Safety Car
Maker ............................ E.O. ............................. Part Number
Hooker ......................D-164-5 .................................... 2076
JBA Headers ...............D-216-23 .................................. 1817
Borla .........................D-276-12 ...................17206 and 17214
Pacesetter .................D-439-6 ........ 70-1341, 70-1342, 70-1343
B & B ........................D-506 , D-506-1 and D-506-2 ......... N/A
Superchargers
Vortech .....................D-213-19 ..... 4GR218-010 , -020, -030 , -040
Pro-Charger ...............D-365-6 ..........................1GK213-SCI
Cams
............. None ................
These I found with a quick search, I may have missed some ... though I was not surprised to find no cams listed.
The way you are supposed to use the database is get a Manufacturer's part number and go look it up to see if it has an E.O. issued for your particular car. Note that some of the above E.O. do not apply to all years/models of the C5.
Go here to look up E.O. data .....
http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermk...es/amquery.php
06-06-2008, 04:56 PM
#4
Team Owner
Katech Performance does not install non E.O. long tube headers or aftermarket catalytic converters in registered street cars in the USA.
------------------------------------------------------------------
In such a case, Katech will document the car as it arrives with photos and the customer will sign a document stating the vehicle was already equipped and Katech did not perform the work. Furthermore – Katech will not perform ANY work to the exhaust system between the engine and catalytic converters
Holy crap, you know its getting bad when a performance shop wont touch exhast from the engine to the converters.
------------------------------------------------------------------
In such a case, Katech will document the car as it arrives with photos and the customer will sign a document stating the vehicle was already equipped and Katech did not perform the work. Furthermore – Katech will not perform ANY work to the exhaust system between the engine and catalytic converters
Holy crap, you know its getting bad when a performance shop wont touch exhast from the engine to the converters.
06-06-2008, 07:39 PM
#6
Safety Car
Most of the idiots on this forum doing stuff like removing their cats are simply asking for trouble. The federal EPA and the CARB can read these forums too ..... they know exactly what is going on ... and they are planning on putting a stop to it ... the hard way.
They will be going after the shops that provide "illegal" services such as removing the cats .... just like they went after the guys last year who made O2 sims so you could remove the cats and "fool" your PCM (try finding sims now ... they shut those guys down hard) ....
Guys like Katech are being SMART .... I respect them for their position .... shows they are good business men ......
06-06-2008, 08:51 PM
#7
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wow very interesting
I find it very interesting but at the same time very VERY bias.....I mean there are a lot of very VERY reputable shops out there putting on headers for cars. I mean are we honestly saying ALL these places are NOT doing it legally? Something sure don't seem right here. When it comes to laws, politics, and states....There is always more then one story or way of understanding the rules. Shoot I know in the same state if I goto a state trooper and ask him one thing, then ask my congressman, then ask my local police I will get 3 different answers on the laws.
I think its still way too much in the grey zone and until you see an act of congress go into effect and the DMV/inspection places cracking down so hard on this, its just going to go as an afterthought. Its sorta like the big scare everybody got a long time ago, saying that if you were caught downloading music, you were going to be fined $$$$$$$$$. Sure at first it took the country by storm, but eventually it calmed down, cause the politicians figured out it would cost way more to try to traffic and control this then it was worth...I think you will find the same result here.
This is just my 02. everybody has an opinion.
I think its still way too much in the grey zone and until you see an act of congress go into effect and the DMV/inspection places cracking down so hard on this, its just going to go as an afterthought. Its sorta like the big scare everybody got a long time ago, saying that if you were caught downloading music, you were going to be fined $$$$$$$$$. Sure at first it took the country by storm, but eventually it calmed down, cause the politicians figured out it would cost way more to try to traffic and control this then it was worth...I think you will find the same result here.
This is just my 02. everybody has an opinion.
06-06-2008, 11:39 PM
#9
Safety Car
The end is coming. In 10yrs we'll all be driving Prius's or some electric go kart with a plastic body. The aftermarket will be out of business, and it will be illegal to even OWN a gasoline powered car. You won't even be able to buy gasoline. The only way you'll be able to do anything regarding performance will be on a track only car.
The government wants to take all our 'toys' away because of the environmental activists who have been lobbying for 20yrs for this. Granted I believe less pollution is a good thing, but wait till we see what these policies are going to do to the economy.
Sorry about the rant, and taking it a bit 'off-topic', but this stuff is becoming more and more threatening to what I like to do in my spare time. Mod my C5, drive my modded C5, and enjoy it from all the hard work I not only put into it, but from working hard to earn the money to do it with.
The government wants to take all our 'toys' away because of the environmental activists who have been lobbying for 20yrs for this. Granted I believe less pollution is a good thing, but wait till we see what these policies are going to do to the economy.
Sorry about the rant, and taking it a bit 'off-topic', but this stuff is becoming more and more threatening to what I like to do in my spare time. Mod my C5, drive my modded C5, and enjoy it from all the hard work I not only put into it, but from working hard to earn the money to do it with.
06-07-2008, 01:26 AM
#10
Race Director
06-07-2008, 01:59 AM
#11
Safety Car
ArKay99 - Let me paint another picture ... or another way to look at it.
In 10 years you may well have a electric vehicle ... but there may be some significant upsides to that ...
Performance ... You have any idea how much torque an electric motor can generate ??? check out this guy .....
He's done an 11.466@114.08 in it ..... and it is a street legal car.
http://www.plasmaboyracing.com/whitezombie.php
Our Economy ... How much longer do you think it will be before we are paying $200.00 per barrel for oil .... many serious oil guys are predicting that's the price in 6 months from now ..... think of what that does to our economy and the world economy .... look at some of the world's worst leaders (Venezuela's Chavez comes to mind ... how about Iran ... ) and they are raking in your and my money because they sit on oil deposits.
Our economy could actually benefit from a switchover to electric vehicles ... whether powered by batteries or fuel cells ..... lots of jobs would be created in creating the infrastructure to support an "electric" economy and building the cars and components themselves. It would be a real chance for "the big 3" to regain their former glory in the world auto markets.
Finally, if switching to electric means I can still get gasoline and can take my Corvette to a track ... I'll be happy ..... the only problem with electric cars is they are quiet .... I'd have to drive the Vette once in a while to hear that beautiful sound of an American V8 accelerating at WOT to redline.......
From my point of view ... I'd get more satisfaction telling some of those foreign oil countries to go pound sand up their azz than from almost anything else .....
In 10 years you may well have a electric vehicle ... but there may be some significant upsides to that ...
Performance ... You have any idea how much torque an electric motor can generate ??? check out this guy .....
He's done an 11.466@114.08 in it ..... and it is a street legal car.
http://www.plasmaboyracing.com/whitezombie.php
Our Economy ... How much longer do you think it will be before we are paying $200.00 per barrel for oil .... many serious oil guys are predicting that's the price in 6 months from now ..... think of what that does to our economy and the world economy .... look at some of the world's worst leaders (Venezuela's Chavez comes to mind ... how about Iran ... ) and they are raking in your and my money because they sit on oil deposits.
Our economy could actually benefit from a switchover to electric vehicles ... whether powered by batteries or fuel cells ..... lots of jobs would be created in creating the infrastructure to support an "electric" economy and building the cars and components themselves. It would be a real chance for "the big 3" to regain their former glory in the world auto markets.
Finally, if switching to electric means I can still get gasoline and can take my Corvette to a track ... I'll be happy ..... the only problem with electric cars is they are quiet .... I'd have to drive the Vette once in a while to hear that beautiful sound of an American V8 accelerating at WOT to redline.......
From my point of view ... I'd get more satisfaction telling some of those foreign oil countries to go pound sand up their azz than from almost anything else .....
06-07-2008, 08:06 AM
#12
Team Owner
Katech really has no options but to take this approach, the laws about converters have been on the books for years.
I have always viewed my modifications not only as a hobby, but a "time limited" hobby. The time we live in now is somewhat a throwback to the 60's with very powerful fast cars, and that was a time I was in school and was planning to buy one of those monster machines only to get out of school when compression was 8.5:1 and 150 was a lot of hp. I have been having a ball now though, but have also realized that it will come to an end at some point when the economy and the emissions make production of these types of cars unprofitable for the companies and they are dropped from production. However, there are some things you can do legally. My new AFR heads carry a CARB EO number
I have kept all my stock parts too, just in case.
I have always viewed my modifications not only as a hobby, but a "time limited" hobby. The time we live in now is somewhat a throwback to the 60's with very powerful fast cars, and that was a time I was in school and was planning to buy one of those monster machines only to get out of school when compression was 8.5:1 and 150 was a lot of hp. I have been having a ball now though, but have also realized that it will come to an end at some point when the economy and the emissions make production of these types of cars unprofitable for the companies and they are dropped from production. However, there are some things you can do legally. My new AFR heads carry a CARB EO number
I have kept all my stock parts too, just in case.
06-07-2008, 09:30 AM
#13
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Gas cars will never go away, WAYYYYYYYY too many exist in the world. What will happen is when electric and hydrogen cars become affordable and mass produced, it's going to drive down the demand oil. A lower demand for oil means lower prices. My predictions is within 3 years gas will be back to UNDER $2 a gallon.
06-07-2008, 10:26 AM
#14
Safety Car
BlackZ06, all your points are spot on. I just viewed a vid yesterday of an electric dragster that did 7.63 and 160mph in the 1/4mi. An electric motor develops it's torque in direct proportion to the amount of current applied to the coils, even at 0 rpm. Electric vehicles have thier problems too. As I see it the biggest one is range. The next is to charge it you have to plug it in to an energy source. That energy is more than likely created by burning fossil fuels. The electric motor is more efficient than the gasoline motor, so the conversion in carbon is better, but electric transmission has losses so efficiency suffers there too.
With the economy I see a lot of jobs that can be created from embracing the technology of electric, but a lot of jobs will be lost. I fear more than gained. I hope I'm wrong. As far as oil going to $200 pb in 6 months I agree that's going to happen, but as I hinted at, it can be alleviated, and ALL our dependence on foreign oil could be alleviated if the laws were changed to allow for procuring oil from our own natural resources. There is a deposit off the Atlantic continental shelf of at least 86 billion barrels we can't touch. Another 110 billion in the Gulf of Mexico. The Alaskan pipeline and Alaskan reserves are virtually untapped. As far as CO2 and global warming I believe deforestation of the Amazon is doing far greater damage than cars. The Amazon used to put out over 80% of the oxygen this planet needs, now it's down to less than 40%. The exchange molecule is CO2. I don't want to take this completely off topic so I'll stop there.
As far as sound goes, you could always hook up a big azz sound system and play a sample of a top fuel engine at WOT as you go down the track. I was watching 'Pimp My Ride' one day and they had a system they put in this car that did just that. It played the sounds of different cars loudly through the sound system. You could select a Ferrari, a muscle car, etc...
The problem I have is, and maybe I'm just an old fart, I can't see myself driving around in an electric vette.
With the economy I see a lot of jobs that can be created from embracing the technology of electric, but a lot of jobs will be lost. I fear more than gained. I hope I'm wrong. As far as oil going to $200 pb in 6 months I agree that's going to happen, but as I hinted at, it can be alleviated, and ALL our dependence on foreign oil could be alleviated if the laws were changed to allow for procuring oil from our own natural resources. There is a deposit off the Atlantic continental shelf of at least 86 billion barrels we can't touch. Another 110 billion in the Gulf of Mexico. The Alaskan pipeline and Alaskan reserves are virtually untapped. As far as CO2 and global warming I believe deforestation of the Amazon is doing far greater damage than cars. The Amazon used to put out over 80% of the oxygen this planet needs, now it's down to less than 40%. The exchange molecule is CO2. I don't want to take this completely off topic so I'll stop there.
As far as sound goes, you could always hook up a big azz sound system and play a sample of a top fuel engine at WOT as you go down the track. I was watching 'Pimp My Ride' one day and they had a system they put in this car that did just that. It played the sounds of different cars loudly through the sound system. You could select a Ferrari, a muscle car, etc...
The problem I have is, and maybe I'm just an old fart, I can't see myself driving around in an electric vette.
Last edited by ArKay99; 06-07-2008 at 10:31 AM.
06-07-2008, 10:50 AM
#15
Safety Car
ArKay99
TOTALLY ....
Have to say I was
at the suggestion of adding the sound system in and playing recordings of engine sounds .... GREAT freakin' idea ..... ... and think of all the jobs that would create .....
TOTALLY ....Have to say I was
at the suggestion of adding the sound system in and playing recordings of engine sounds .... GREAT freakin' idea ..... ... and think of all the jobs that would create .....
06-07-2008, 01:01 PM
#16
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Bravo to Katech for clearing the air on what has been a sore subject for a long time.
I think we are closer to seeing car powered by alternative fuel sources but a long way from seeing gas-powered cars from disappearing from the scene.
The C5 is a prime example of making HP while maintaining the delicate balance of fuel efficency and emissions compliance.
Too many high HP, street legal C5s on the road for doing things that take the car out of compliance to be necessary
I think we are closer to seeing car powered by alternative fuel sources but a long way from seeing gas-powered cars from disappearing from the scene.
The C5 is a prime example of making HP while maintaining the delicate balance of fuel efficency and emissions compliance.
Too many high HP, street legal C5s on the road for doing things that take the car out of compliance to be necessary
06-07-2008, 01:21 PM
#17
Melting Slicks
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The Katech statement is an Excellent CYA. They publicly covered their kiesters. The law they are quoting dates back to 1987. This is nothing new. I believe a C5 with headers, cats H/C and proper tuning is likely less polluting than tha hordes of poorly cared for POS out there. The Feds could decide to clamp down on the laws on the books and kill of the aftermarket that grew around modified cars and V-twins, kill one more industry in the US. Industries outside the US have virtually no pollution regulations. When a company relocates to Mexico, no EPA. Net result, more pollution. 
Brilliant. Frankly I drive my C5 around 3600 mile per year so I don't believe it poses a problem.
Brilliant. Frankly I drive my C5 around 3600 mile per year so I don't believe it poses a problem.
06-08-2008, 11:19 AM
#19
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I find it very interesting but at the same time very VERY bias.....I mean there are a lot of very VERY reputable shops out there putting on headers for cars. I mean are we honestly saying ALL these places are NOT doing it legally? Something sure don't seem right here. When it comes to laws, politics, and states....There is always more then one story or way of understanding the rules. Shoot I know in the same state if I goto a state trooper and ask him one thing, then ask my congressman, then ask my local police I will get 3 different answers on the laws.
I think its still way too much in the grey zone and until you see an act of congress go into effect and the DMV/inspection places cracking down so hard on this, its just going to go as an afterthought. Its sorta like the big scare everybody got a long time ago, saying that if you were caught downloading music, you were going to be fined $$$$$$$$$. Sure at first it took the country by storm, but eventually it calmed down, cause the politicians figured out it would cost way more to try to traffic and control this then it was worth...I think you will find the same result here.
This is just my 02. everybody has an opinion.
I think its still way too much in the grey zone and until you see an act of congress go into effect and the DMV/inspection places cracking down so hard on this, its just going to go as an afterthought. Its sorta like the big scare everybody got a long time ago, saying that if you were caught downloading music, you were going to be fined $$$$$$$$$. Sure at first it took the country by storm, but eventually it calmed down, cause the politicians figured out it would cost way more to try to traffic and control this then it was worth...I think you will find the same result here.
This is just my 02. everybody has an opinion.
If you are removing/changing environmental controls for an all-out, off-road only racer that is one thing. If you are doing it to run the car on public roads.......
06-08-2008, 02:00 PM
#20
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Cruise-In 1, 3, 9. 10 & 11 Veteran
I respectfully disagree with this part of your post. The Government (insert the name of any environmental agency at any level) doesn't have to go after YOU the individual who downloads the music or removes/defeats the environmental controls on your car. They just go after the companies/businesses that provide the services that enable you to do so. Napster had to change the way they do business because of the music industries lobby to stop illegal downloads. You can still find ways to download music illegally, but it is not nearly as easy as it was before the tactics to stop it changed.
If you are removing/changing environmental controls for an all-out, off-road only racer that is one thing. If you are doing it to run the car on public roads.......
If you are removing/changing environmental controls for an all-out, off-road only racer that is one thing. If you are doing it to run the car on public roads.......
As far as the cars go....I understand fully what the EPA is trying to accomplish but think they are barking up the wrong tree going after guys with literally brand new cars that throw next to nothing for emissions. You ever see some of the tractor trailors and diesels driving down the road....or what about the states that don't even test for emissions....makes no sense to me....We all breath the same air...its no different from one state to the next...If we are going to have rules we need to level out the playing field. Quit hurting people in one state by going super strict when you have another state that has no restrictions at all.
Last edited by XtremeVette; 06-08-2008 at 02:02 PM.