Porsche Twin Turbo vs C5
12-24-2001, 11:45 AM
#21
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Re: Porsche Twin Turbo vs C5 (Ha-Ha)
This is the way I look at it. I spent 10K for:
ARE Stage II H&C
LS6 Intake
TPIS Headers
SPEC Clutch
ASP Pully
Donaldson
85MM MAF
T1 Sway Bars
VP&P Composite Front Spring 850 lbs
Bilstein Sports
Poly Urethane Bushing Kit w/Heavy Duty Tie Rod ends
Lowered to 26" riding on CCW's with 285/30's & 335/30's
I paid $37,900, 3 years ago for my 97 Coupe.
So for $47,900 I have paid for a car that should walk on most others, unless of course it is a good driver with a 422...etc..
I can't wait to race Jan. 26th at Buttonwillow.
I can't wait to run into a Porsche TT or a Viper with hopes of light traffic and an owner who has a set for a little freeway fun, but preferably at the track. I don't condone racing on freeways!
ARE Stage II H&C
LS6 Intake
TPIS Headers
SPEC Clutch
ASP Pully
Donaldson
85MM MAF
T1 Sway Bars
VP&P Composite Front Spring 850 lbs
Bilstein Sports
Poly Urethane Bushing Kit w/Heavy Duty Tie Rod ends
Lowered to 26" riding on CCW's with 285/30's & 335/30's
I paid $37,900, 3 years ago for my 97 Coupe.
So for $47,900 I have paid for a car that should walk on most others, unless of course it is a good driver with a 422...etc..
I can't wait to race Jan. 26th at Buttonwillow.
I can't wait to run into a Porsche TT or a Viper with hopes of light traffic and an owner who has a set for a little freeway fun, but preferably at the track. I don't condone racing on freeways!
12-24-2001, 11:51 AM
#22
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Re: Porsche Twin Turbo vs C5 (Ha-Ha)
TT's are know to be 'bullet proof'...waay overbuilt and detuned. Remap the ECU and pick up 50 true HP. :eek:
944's and 928's (924's 964's too)aren't real Porsches...just something for the American market that was quickly dispenced. Those are the the repair hogs. :)
944's and 928's (924's 964's too)aren't real Porsches...just something for the American market that was quickly dispenced. Those are the the repair hogs. :)
12-24-2001, 12:02 PM
#23
Re: Porsche Twin Turbo vs C5 (Ha-Ha)
Well as a Porsche owner for the last 23 years I'll also throw in my $.02 worth.
Over that period of time I've owned 3 928's and none of them had to have their engines rebuilt @ 19k miles because of engineering defects. None of them spent 1 stay over night at the dealer. My C5 as spent 39 days at the dealer this year. The Porsche dealer never damaged or broke any of my cars, like Chevy dealers have.
With that said, IMO, The C5 is the best performance car in the performance car market. Heads up road tests with factory drivers & state of the practice equipment are hard to argue with (however I have to give the edge in brakes to Porsche...11' is driver skill (or error)).
Porsche has much better quality and engineering (GM gets bad marks for oil consumption, piston knock, ) but they cost nearly double.
Cost is not the reason I have a C5 either. When I was able to buy a new 911, I couldn't justify it because the C5 would out perform it. So I bought a 4X4 and the C5.
Here is the big kicker...I can mod my C5. You can't really mod a Quad overhead cammed, 32 valve V8 like the 928 has without building a stroker motor! No real bolt-ons for Porsche's.
BTW: While the 911 styling isn't as awsume as the 928's (designed by Tony Lapine...the designer of the Stingray), it's not butt ugly!
Over that period of time I've owned 3 928's and none of them had to have their engines rebuilt @ 19k miles because of engineering defects. None of them spent 1 stay over night at the dealer. My C5 as spent 39 days at the dealer this year. The Porsche dealer never damaged or broke any of my cars, like Chevy dealers have.
With that said, IMO, The C5 is the best performance car in the performance car market. Heads up road tests with factory drivers & state of the practice equipment are hard to argue with (however I have to give the edge in brakes to Porsche...11' is driver skill (or error)).
Porsche has much better quality and engineering (GM gets bad marks for oil consumption, piston knock, ) but they cost nearly double.
Cost is not the reason I have a C5 either. When I was able to buy a new 911, I couldn't justify it because the C5 would out perform it. So I bought a 4X4 and the C5.
Here is the big kicker...I can mod my C5. You can't really mod a Quad overhead cammed, 32 valve V8 like the 928 has without building a stroker motor! No real bolt-ons for Porsche's.
BTW: While the 911 styling isn't as awsume as the 928's (designed by Tony Lapine...the designer of the Stingray), it's not butt ugly!
12-24-2001, 12:11 PM
#24
Re: Porsche Twin Turbo vs C5 (Gary2KC5)
BTW: While the 911 styling isn't as awsume as the 928's (designed by Tony Lapine...the designer of the Stingray), it's not butt ugly!
12-24-2001, 01:48 PM
#25
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Re: Porsche Twin Turbo vs C5 (Drop_Top_Dave)
I saw that article as well, WOW that yellow Vette waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaas fast :cheers:
12-24-2001, 04:03 PM
#26
Re: Porsche Twin Turbo vs C5 (jessejames)
TT's are know to be 'bullet proof'...waay overbuilt and detuned. Remap the ECU and pick up 50 true HP. :eek:
944's and 928's (924's 964's too)aren't real Porsches...just something for the American market that was quickly dispenced. Those are the the repair hogs. :)
944's and 928's (924's 964's too)aren't real Porsches...just something for the American market that was quickly dispenced. Those are the the repair hogs. :)
I agree that maybe the water cooled Porsche's were for the american market, especially the 928 which was aimed at the Corvette. I know a some of the Porsche folks still hold out that the 911 is the only true Porsche but most accept all Porsche's, even 914's (it's kinda like the C4/C5 that goes back and forth around here).
All I know is that my 928S4's window sticker said $76,465, Porsche, and there was a Porsche crest on the hood.
12-24-2001, 10:04 PM
#27
Race Director
Re: Porsche Twin Turbo vs C5 (jessejames)
Oh, I forgot to mention that the 626 HP 1996 Autothority Stage III 911 Turbo came in 4th place (out of 6) in the supertuner shootout. Sadly (for Porsche), the blocky shape of the 911 and 15-mph head wind kept the the top speed to just 130 for a fourth place overall.
The brake comments remind me of acceleration quips I hear often. "The numbers don't do justice to this car - it FEELS like it's faster than the Z06!" or "seat of pants tells me that it is providing a significant power boost!"
Obviously people, the proof is in the pudding, and the pudding is instrumented tests that place less emphasis on human ability and more on the machinery. When both a Lingenfelter C5 AND the stock Z06 emerge as victors over the cars from Germany after an exhaustive array of brutal testing, I tend to believe that the C5 rules the roost.
By the way, one of the criteria for overall best tuner car was DURABILTY. Both the Porsche and the Lingenfelter C5 received five stars (highest ranking).
The brake comments remind me of acceleration quips I hear often. "The numbers don't do justice to this car - it FEELS like it's faster than the Z06!" or "seat of pants tells me that it is providing a significant power boost!"
Obviously people, the proof is in the pudding, and the pudding is instrumented tests that place less emphasis on human ability and more on the machinery. When both a Lingenfelter C5 AND the stock Z06 emerge as victors over the cars from Germany after an exhaustive array of brutal testing, I tend to believe that the C5 rules the roost.
By the way, one of the criteria for overall best tuner car was DURABILTY. Both the Porsche and the Lingenfelter C5 received five stars (highest ranking).
12-25-2001, 01:34 AM
#28
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Re: Porsche Twin Turbo vs C5 (Dave68)
The road course test with Heinricy and Haywood was great..
However, I found the road course performance of the Lingenfelter TT (and all of the others) disappointing. Turbo lag is not fun.. I'm sure it is a rocket in a straight line.
The Z06 in Heinricy's hands whooped everything else on the road course. That proves two things we already knew.. The Z06 is awesome. Heinricy is Awesome.
And I think it says *everything* about what you can do in a stock Z06 if you work on your driving.
However, I found the road course performance of the Lingenfelter TT (and all of the others) disappointing. Turbo lag is not fun.. I'm sure it is a rocket in a straight line.
The Z06 in Heinricy's hands whooped everything else on the road course. That proves two things we already knew.. The Z06 is awesome. Heinricy is Awesome.
And I think it says *everything* about what you can do in a stock Z06 if you work on your driving.
12-25-2001, 10:15 AM
#29
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Re: Porsche Twin Turbo vs C5 (Gary2KC5)
I had just gotten my coupe back from Mike Norris the day before and was getting on 400 South here in Atlanta and a few cars behind me was a new Twin Turbo. He jumped into the left lane and shot past me. I floored it and got behind him and kept up with him until 120, but there was a lot of traffic and I wasn't comfortable with all the weaving in and out. I had no problem keeping up with him, of course. I think he definetly had me in brakes and tires, but not in acceleration.
I got off at an exit and he slowed to get off also. He pulled up next to me at the light and put down his window. He said "that was fun, huh"? Friendly guy.
Dave
I got off at an exit and he slowed to get off also. He pulled up next to me at the light and put down his window. He said "that was fun, huh"? Friendly guy.
Dave
12-25-2001, 06:41 PM
#30
Melting Slicks
Re: Porsche Twin Turbo vs C5 (l2vette)
EVERYONE---THE END ALL/BEAT ALL IS THAT THE VETTE IS $-FOR-$ THE BEST ONE CAN GET. BEST BANG FOR BUCK. PERIOD, END OF STORY. NOW EVERYONE QUIT SQUABBLING!!!!
12-25-2001, 06:51 PM
#31
Re: Porsche Twin Turbo vs C5 (rwj383)
[QUOTE]EVERYONE---THE END ALL/BEAT ALL IS THAT THE VETTE IS $-FOR-$ THE BEST ONE CAN GET. BEST BANG FOR BUCK. PERIOD, END OF STORY. QUOTE]
No Doubt, No Doubt!!! :cheers:
No Doubt, No Doubt!!! :cheers:
12-25-2001, 07:58 PM
#32
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Re: Porsche Twin Turbo vs C5 (rwj383)
EVERYONE---THE END ALL/BEAT ALL IS THAT THE VETTE IS $-FOR-$ THE BEST ONE CAN GET. BEST BANG FOR BUCK. PERIOD, END OF STORY. NOW EVERYONE QUIT SQUABBLING!!!!
12-26-2001, 12:40 PM
#33
Race Director
Re: Porsche Twin Turbo vs C5 (SRitger)
Hmmmm.....Like everyone else, I pretty much hate to get beat at anything, but for less than half the $$'s, if the only car I've got to "worry" about beating me is a TT Porch, I can actually learn to live with that...:)
Took my Dad out in the C5 yesterday (he's a HUGE Porch fan, having had several in the past 5 years) and he genuinely liked the C5, which I took as a great compliment. I told him the worst part about the C5 is having it serviced at a Chevy dealer. I got a pretty good guffaw out of that!!!
Oh, having spent three years living in Germany during the heyday of the 924/944's and 928's, I'd say that the viewpoint that these cars were only an American market car is a bit skewed. LOTS of those cars on the German roads when I was there. I think the water cooled cars work much better in their environmental conditions than the air cooled ones, especially for an everyday driver! But hey, I'm just a car junkie, and I know I don't know anything... :jester
Took my Dad out in the C5 yesterday (he's a HUGE Porch fan, having had several in the past 5 years) and he genuinely liked the C5, which I took as a great compliment. I told him the worst part about the C5 is having it serviced at a Chevy dealer. I got a pretty good guffaw out of that!!!
Oh, having spent three years living in Germany during the heyday of the 924/944's and 928's, I'd say that the viewpoint that these cars were only an American market car is a bit skewed. LOTS of those cars on the German roads when I was there. I think the water cooled cars work much better in their environmental conditions than the air cooled ones, especially for an everyday driver! But hey, I'm just a car junkie, and I know I don't know anything... :jester
12-26-2001, 03:45 PM
#34
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Re: Porsche Twin Turbo vs C5 (dsk888)
I ran a '02 996 TT a few weeks ago on the freeway. We played for about 15 miles, launching at various speeds. This thing was freaking FAST! We took it up to 160+ mph on several occassions, and were dead even. I could tell that the driver was getting a bit annoyed that his $100K+ purebred race machine wasn't running away from this low tech pushrod V8. On top of that, his German fighter jet wasn't just any ordinary 911. As far as I could tell, it had turbo upgrade (obnoixiously loud turbo whine), aftermarket exhaust, rear whale tail, superwide body kit, and wheel package. But hands down to this 6 cylinder, because it definitely gave me a RUN! :D
Was that before or after you got your heads&cam?
Thanks
-Tuan
12-26-2001, 03:54 PM
#35
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Re: Porsche Twin Turbo vs C5 (l2vette)
There are 2 mid 90's and one brand new heavily moded Porches at Bradenton on test & tune and club 1320 nites that run 10's when not breaking shafts & CV joints! They don't ever run bracket nites, but if they could launch (alot of clutch slip & tire spin/wheel hop) they would be in the 9's I bet....when they hook up :eek: they move like an ICBM taking off! Trap speeds are very high for the ET, so I know they could do better...but man they break alot! :cool:
12-26-2001, 07:44 PM
#36
Melting Slicks
Re: Porsche Twin Turbo vs C5 (Dave68)
I believe it was Car & Driver who recently had a shootout where the Z06 beat the TT Porsche. I'm pretty sure they had skilled/equal drivers in both cars. ;) :cheers: :cool:
Right you are! Here're some notes from the article:
"Porsche sent three-time LaManas and long-time Porsche driver Hurley Haywood. Chevy sent hard-charging John Heinricy, GM North America's director of vehicle dynamics and a successful production car racer.
The common thinking at the staging area was that the Porsche's all-wheel-drive system would help it overcome its less-advantageous power-to-weight ratio. The Porsche's twin-turbocharged flat-six thumps out 10 more horses than Chevy's newly fortified405 HP V-8, but the Chevy has the substantial advantage of being 375 pounds lighter.
The Porsche squirted off the line quicker, as we figured it would, to 30 mph. But when the needle touched 60, the svelte vette opened up a 0.1-second gap that would only widen as acceleration continued. Heinricy is also well practiced in production Corvettes (some of Haywood's time has been spent in Prsche race cars) that he snicked off clutchless upshifts as if in a finger-shifting Formula 1 racer.
If we thought the Porsche would have the edge in straight-line acceleration, we weren't sure what would happen on the road courseThe best Corvette Z06 we've tested outperformed the 911 turbo in the skidpad (0.98g versus 0.93 for the 911) and in braking tests, stopping from 70 mph in 152 feet, 11 feet shorte than the Porsche can manage. But again, we thought the four-wheel-drive Porsche would squirt out of corners quicker. Any advantage the Porsche's driveline provides wasn't enough, however, as the Vette pulled higher grip in almost every corner and finished the road-course portion sooner by 1.9 seconds.......But as the speeds increased, the Vette's lower drag coefficient (0.29 versus 0.31) gave it another edge, and it finished the full course a slimmest-of-slim 0.7 second sooner."
Well, there you have it - the best Porsche driver vs the best Chevy driver and the Z06 comes out on top, despite the whopping $66,500 price difference!
Porsche, it's back to the drawing board time!
Right you are! Here're some notes from the article:
"Porsche sent three-time LaManas and long-time Porsche driver Hurley Haywood. Chevy sent hard-charging John Heinricy, GM North America's director of vehicle dynamics and a successful production car racer.
The common thinking at the staging area was that the Porsche's all-wheel-drive system would help it overcome its less-advantageous power-to-weight ratio. The Porsche's twin-turbocharged flat-six thumps out 10 more horses than Chevy's newly fortified405 HP V-8, but the Chevy has the substantial advantage of being 375 pounds lighter.
The Porsche squirted off the line quicker, as we figured it would, to 30 mph. But when the needle touched 60, the svelte vette opened up a 0.1-second gap that would only widen as acceleration continued. Heinricy is also well practiced in production Corvettes (some of Haywood's time has been spent in Prsche race cars) that he snicked off clutchless upshifts as if in a finger-shifting Formula 1 racer.
If we thought the Porsche would have the edge in straight-line acceleration, we weren't sure what would happen on the road courseThe best Corvette Z06 we've tested outperformed the 911 turbo in the skidpad (0.98g versus 0.93 for the 911) and in braking tests, stopping from 70 mph in 152 feet, 11 feet shorte than the Porsche can manage. But again, we thought the four-wheel-drive Porsche would squirt out of corners quicker. Any advantage the Porsche's driveline provides wasn't enough, however, as the Vette pulled higher grip in almost every corner and finished the road-course portion sooner by 1.9 seconds.......But as the speeds increased, the Vette's lower drag coefficient (0.29 versus 0.31) gave it another edge, and it finished the full course a slimmest-of-slim 0.7 second sooner."
Well, there you have it - the best Porsche driver vs the best Chevy driver and the Z06 comes out on top, despite the whopping $66,500 price difference!
Porsche, it's back to the drawing board time!
