Have I damaged my engine???
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,136
Likes: 8
From: Chichester, UK
Have I damaged my engine???
As my Z16 is Four years old I have decided to change the cooling fluid in the engine.
I have drained the coolant from the radiator drain plug than I have filled the system with deionised water through the surge tank and followed the instructions as follows
1, Start the engine.
2, Allow the engine to idle for one minute.
3, Install surge tank cup.
4, Cycle the engine until the coolant temperature reaches 210F.
5, Shut off the engine.
6, Remove the surge tank cup.
7, Start the engine.
8, Allow the engine to idle for one minute and At this point everything went very wrong!!
As I was reaching for the bottle with deionised water to top up the surge tank the coolant just spurted out like a fountain from the surge tank. I have panicked and shut of the engine and reinstalled the surge tank cup back on the surge tank.
I was so scared that I have damaged the engine so I have called a friend of mine who is a motor technician and he came about 30 minutes later.
By this time the coolant cooled down and he toped up the surge tank with more deionised water, waited till the engine warmed up, checked all of the coolant pipes, waited till the fans come on and off.
Than he picked up a vacuum tool to check if there are any gasses in the coolant to find out if the heads or head gasket are cracked and so far all is all right. I was told to top up the coolant in the morning if necessary when to coolant cools down.
I was following the instructions to the letter. Have I done something wrong?
Should I still worry? :o
I have drained the coolant from the radiator drain plug than I have filled the system with deionised water through the surge tank and followed the instructions as follows
1, Start the engine.
2, Allow the engine to idle for one minute.
3, Install surge tank cup.
4, Cycle the engine until the coolant temperature reaches 210F.
5, Shut off the engine.
6, Remove the surge tank cup.
7, Start the engine.
8, Allow the engine to idle for one minute and At this point everything went very wrong!!
As I was reaching for the bottle with deionised water to top up the surge tank the coolant just spurted out like a fountain from the surge tank. I have panicked and shut of the engine and reinstalled the surge tank cup back on the surge tank.
I was so scared that I have damaged the engine so I have called a friend of mine who is a motor technician and he came about 30 minutes later.
By this time the coolant cooled down and he toped up the surge tank with more deionised water, waited till the engine warmed up, checked all of the coolant pipes, waited till the fans come on and off.
Than he picked up a vacuum tool to check if there are any gasses in the coolant to find out if the heads or head gasket are cracked and so far all is all right. I was told to top up the coolant in the morning if necessary when to coolant cools down.
I was following the instructions to the letter. Have I done something wrong?
Should I still worry? :o
Tech Contributor
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 19,384
Likes: 87
From: Horncastle Lincolnshire, England
2023 C5 of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
Don't worry. Doesn't look like the head gasket has blown as that would result in white smoke which you couldn't miiss.
Not sure that I'd take the cap off at 210 after running the engine. I think I'd let it cool a little before I topped off or at least be very careful removing the cap. Hopefully you'll be fine but keep an eye on the temperatures next time you drive.
The engine is actually designed to run for quite a long time with no coolant in extremis.
Overheated Engine Protection
Operating Mode
If an overheated engine condition exists and the messages COOLANT OVER TEMP and REDUCED ENGINE
POWER are displayed, along with the Check Engine light, an overheat protection mode which alternates
firing groups of cylinders helps prevent engine damage. In this mode, you will notice a loss in power and engine performance. This operating mode allows your vehicle to be driven to a safe place in an emergency; you may drive up to 50 miles (80 km).
After driving in the overheated engine protection operating mode, to avoid engine damage, allow
the engine to cool before attempting any repair. The engine oil will be severely degraded. Repair
the cause of coolant loss, change the oil and reset the oil life system. See “Engine Oil” in the Index.
Patches posted the How To. PM him and get his thoughts
Not sure that I'd take the cap off at 210 after running the engine. I think I'd let it cool a little before I topped off or at least be very careful removing the cap. Hopefully you'll be fine but keep an eye on the temperatures next time you drive.
The engine is actually designed to run for quite a long time with no coolant in extremis.
Overheated Engine Protection
Operating Mode
If an overheated engine condition exists and the messages COOLANT OVER TEMP and REDUCED ENGINE
POWER are displayed, along with the Check Engine light, an overheat protection mode which alternates
firing groups of cylinders helps prevent engine damage. In this mode, you will notice a loss in power and engine performance. This operating mode allows your vehicle to be driven to a safe place in an emergency; you may drive up to 50 miles (80 km).
After driving in the overheated engine protection operating mode, to avoid engine damage, allow
the engine to cool before attempting any repair. The engine oil will be severely degraded. Repair
the cause of coolant loss, change the oil and reset the oil life system. See “Engine Oil” in the Index.
Patches posted the How To. PM him and get his thoughts
Last edited by DeeGee; Jul 6, 2008 at 03:54 PM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,788
Likes: 137
From: center of Kalifornia
Where you went wrong was at #6. Once the cap is on and it is at operating temperature don't take the cap off!!!
When you hit 210 and shut off the car the temp will spike because there is no air flow from fan and no flow of water. It probably went to 230+ then you took off the cap and boom!
You are lucky it did not burn you.
I let it idle for a bit and add fluid as needed but be careful as if the thermostat is not open it could cause a big surge also upon opening.
I top it off later if needed when it cools down or even the next day if I am not driving soon.
When you hit 210 and shut off the car the temp will spike because there is no air flow from fan and no flow of water. It probably went to 230+ then you took off the cap and boom!
You are lucky it did not burn you. I let it idle for a bit and add fluid as needed but be careful as if the thermostat is not open it could cause a big surge also upon opening.
I top it off later if needed when it cools down or even the next day if I am not driving soon.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 7,201
Likes: 0
From: DP(oh you know where) IL
St. Jude Donor '06
Where you went wrong was at #6. Once the cap is on and it is at operating temperature don't take the cap off!!!
When you hit 210 and shut off the car the temp will spike because there is no air flow from fan and no flow of water. It probably went to 230+ then you took off the cap and boom! You are lucky it did not burn you.
I let it idle for a bit and add fluid as needed but be careful as if the thermostat is not open it could cause a big surge also upon opening.
I top it off later if needed when it cools down or even the next day if I am not driving soon.
When you hit 210 and shut off the car the temp will spike because there is no air flow from fan and no flow of water. It probably went to 230+ then you took off the cap and boom!
You are lucky it did not burn you. I let it idle for a bit and add fluid as needed but be careful as if the thermostat is not open it could cause a big surge also upon opening.
I top it off later if needed when it cools down or even the next day if I am not driving soon.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,136
Likes: 8
From: Chichester, UK
Draining and Filling Cooling System
Caution
With a pressurized cooling system, the coolant temperature in the radiator can be considerably higher than the boiling point of the solution at atmospheric pressure. Removal of the surge tank cap, while the cooling system is hot and under high pressure, causes the solution to boil instantaneously with explosive force. This will cause the solution to spew out over the engine, the fenders, and the person removing the cap. Serious bodily injury may result.
Important
If the procedure below is not followed a low or high coolant level condition and/or vehicle damage could result.
1) Park the vehicle on a level surface.
2) Remove the surge tank cap:
3)Raise and suitably support the vehicle. Refer to Lifting and Jacking the Vehicle in General Information.
4) Place a drain pan under the drain plug.
5) Open the radiator drain plug .
6) Allow the cooling system to drain completely.
7) Inspect the engine coolant for the following:
Discolored -- follow the flush procedure below.
Normal in appearance -- continue with the next step.
Notice
When adding coolant, use DEX-COOL® coolant. If silicated coolant is added to the system, premature engine, heater core or radiator corrosion may result. In addition, the engine coolant will require change sooner-at 50 000 km (30,000 mi) or 24 months.
Notice
Use the correct fastener in the correct location. Replacement fasteners must be the correct part number for that application. Fasteners requiring replacement or fasteners requiring the use of thread locking compound or sealant are identified in the service procedure. Do not use paints, lubricants, or corrosion inhibitors on fasteners or fastener joint surfaces unless specified. These coatings affect fastener torque and joint clamping force and may damage the fastener. Use the correct tightening sequence and specifications when installing fasteners in order to avoid damage to parts and systems.
8) Close the radiator drain plug. Tighten.
Tighten the radiator drain plug to 2 N•m (18 lb in).
9) Fill the cooling system through the surge tank.
10) Fill the cooling system with a 50/50 mixture of DEX-COOL® coolant and deionized water.
11) Start the engine.
12) Allow the engine to idle for 1 minute.
13) Install surge tank cap.
14) Cycle the engine RPMs from idle to 3000 in 30 second intervals until the coolant temperature reaches 99°C (210°F).
15)Shut off the engine.
16) Remove the surge tank cap.
17) Start the engine.
18) Allow the engine to Idle for 1 minute. Fill the surge tank to 12.7 mm (0.5 in) above the COLD FULL mark on the surge tank.
19) Install the surge tank cap.
20) Cycle the engine RPMs from idle to 3000 in 30 second intervals until the coolant reaches 99°C (210°F).
21) Shut off the engine.
22) Remove the surge tank cap.
23) Top off the coolant as necessary, 12.7 mm (0.5 in) above FULL COLD mark on the surge tank.
24) Rinse away any excess coolant from the engine and the engine compartment.
25) Inspect the concentration of the engine coolant.
26) Install the surge tank cap.
Caution
With a pressurized cooling system, the coolant temperature in the radiator can be considerably higher than the boiling point of the solution at atmospheric pressure. Removal of the surge tank cap, while the cooling system is hot and under high pressure, causes the solution to boil instantaneously with explosive force. This will cause the solution to spew out over the engine, the fenders, and the person removing the cap. Serious bodily injury may result.
Important
If the procedure below is not followed a low or high coolant level condition and/or vehicle damage could result.
1) Park the vehicle on a level surface.
2) Remove the surge tank cap:
3)Raise and suitably support the vehicle. Refer to Lifting and Jacking the Vehicle in General Information.
4) Place a drain pan under the drain plug.
5) Open the radiator drain plug .
6) Allow the cooling system to drain completely.
7) Inspect the engine coolant for the following:
Discolored -- follow the flush procedure below.
Normal in appearance -- continue with the next step.
Notice
When adding coolant, use DEX-COOL® coolant. If silicated coolant is added to the system, premature engine, heater core or radiator corrosion may result. In addition, the engine coolant will require change sooner-at 50 000 km (30,000 mi) or 24 months.
Notice
Use the correct fastener in the correct location. Replacement fasteners must be the correct part number for that application. Fasteners requiring replacement or fasteners requiring the use of thread locking compound or sealant are identified in the service procedure. Do not use paints, lubricants, or corrosion inhibitors on fasteners or fastener joint surfaces unless specified. These coatings affect fastener torque and joint clamping force and may damage the fastener. Use the correct tightening sequence and specifications when installing fasteners in order to avoid damage to parts and systems.
8) Close the radiator drain plug. Tighten.
Tighten the radiator drain plug to 2 N•m (18 lb in).
9) Fill the cooling system through the surge tank.
10) Fill the cooling system with a 50/50 mixture of DEX-COOL® coolant and deionized water.
11) Start the engine.
12) Allow the engine to idle for 1 minute.
13) Install surge tank cap.
14) Cycle the engine RPMs from idle to 3000 in 30 second intervals until the coolant temperature reaches 99°C (210°F).
15)Shut off the engine.
16) Remove the surge tank cap.
17) Start the engine.
18) Allow the engine to Idle for 1 minute. Fill the surge tank to 12.7 mm (0.5 in) above the COLD FULL mark on the surge tank.
19) Install the surge tank cap.
20) Cycle the engine RPMs from idle to 3000 in 30 second intervals until the coolant reaches 99°C (210°F).
21) Shut off the engine.
22) Remove the surge tank cap.
23) Top off the coolant as necessary, 12.7 mm (0.5 in) above FULL COLD mark on the surge tank.
24) Rinse away any excess coolant from the engine and the engine compartment.
25) Inspect the concentration of the engine coolant.
26) Install the surge tank cap.
15, Shut of the engine
16, Remove the surge tank cap.
17, Start the engine.
By this point everything was OK, but when I proceeded to
18, Allow the engine idle for 1 minute The surge tank cup is removed and the engine is running at about 200F it was at this point when the coolant spilled out.
Well I am just happy that the engine seems fine and I will book it in to a service to let them change the coolant for me.
P.S. Deionised water is just as good as distillated as Dex-Cool contains anti corrosion inhibitors. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distilled_water
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Pouria Savadkouei
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 4,933
Likes: 29
From: San Rafael CA
I have followed this instructions and maybe I did not understand the How to properly, but
15, Shut of the engine
16, Remove the surge tank cap.
17, Start the engine.
By this point everything was OK, but when I proceeded to
18, Allow the engine idle for 1 minute The surge tank cup is removed and the engine is running at about 200F it was at this point when the coolant spilled out.
Well I am just happy that the engine seems fine and I will book it in to a service to let them change the coolant for me.
P.S. Deionised water is just as good as distillated as Dex-Cool contains anti corrosion inhibitors. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distilled_water
15, Shut of the engine
16, Remove the surge tank cap.
17, Start the engine.
By this point everything was OK, but when I proceeded to
18, Allow the engine idle for 1 minute The surge tank cup is removed and the engine is running at about 200F it was at this point when the coolant spilled out.
Well I am just happy that the engine seems fine and I will book it in to a service to let them change the coolant for me.
P.S. Deionised water is just as good as distillated as Dex-Cool contains anti corrosion inhibitors. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distilled_water
You haven't hurt the engine at all. I would recommend the following .....
* Let engine cool overnight.
* before starting engine, ensure surge tank level is at, or above, the "cold" or "minimum" mark.
* start engine and take the car out for a short drive .... enough to heat the coolant to at least 180 degrees. A five minute drive should be sufficient.
* turn off engine
* DO NOT OPEN SURGE TANK
* Visually inspect surge tank. If it is low on fluid allow engine to cool for SEVERAL hours before opening surge tank and topping off with fluid.
* Most likely the fluid level will be above the "minimum" or "cold" mark. Drive vehicle as usual.
* For the following couple of days check the fluid level when the engine is cold. You may find you need to add small amounts of coolant as small amounts of air come out of the system. Within a few days the coolant level will "stabilize" and then only needs to be checked occasionally (every few weeks).
Your engine is fine.
Tech Contributor
Joined: May 2008
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From: Somers, CT and Clermont, FL
St. Jude Donor '09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15-'16
Tech Contributor
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,962
Likes: 29
From: Van Buren Arkansas
Wounded Warrior Escort '11
If the water came out with a lot of force, blowing high type thing, then your thermostat was still closed yet the water was heated to full temperature and beyond. If you put in cold water whatever the type in a warm or hot engine, then you may have ruined your thermostat. It doesn't sound like it was heated up all the way yet when you did this, so hopefully you are Ok. If it starts overheating past this and you are sure there are no air-pockets left in there, then replace the thermostat.
Pro
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 596
Likes: 2
From: Houston Texas
what happened is that even if your water was at 220 deg. UNDER PRESSURE when you removed the cap you LOWERED the system pressure and most ,if not all the water turned instantly to steam (entalphy of water).
Thit is why steam boilers explode-sudden loss of pressure and subsequent turning of all the water to steam (bomb).
Thit is why steam boilers explode-sudden loss of pressure and subsequent turning of all the water to steam (bomb).
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,136
Likes: 8
From: Chichester, UK
Just toped up the coolant and all seems fine.
On reflection
Where I went wrong was when I took the cap of the surge tank at about 200F and left the engine idling, it only took few moments for the coolant to reach 210F and as the cap was off the coolant just boiled over.
Just to make sure my T-stat is fine is there an easy way to find out if it is working correctly?
On reflection
Where I went wrong was when I took the cap of the surge tank at about 200F and left the engine idling, it only took few moments for the coolant to reach 210F and as the cap was off the coolant just boiled over.
Just to make sure my T-stat is fine is there an easy way to find out if it is working correctly?
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,788
Likes: 137
From: center of Kalifornia
At this point if you start it up and drive a little and the temp looks normal it is good. If the temp gauge goes up fast to say 240+ after a few minutes then there is a problem. Turn off quick.
Pretty hard to damage a thermostat.
Pretty hard to damage a thermostat.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,962
Likes: 29
From: Van Buren Arkansas
Wounded Warrior Escort '11
Yes, I agree for the most part, however I'm one of those who has ruined a thermostat way in the past. Cold water into a hot engine and the stat is done. I do agree that at this point, drive it around the local area there and make sure the temp goes up to the normal and holds there. Run the AC just to help it stay in the norm. If the stat is messed up, it will continue to heat past the 195-205 range. With the AC off, then the fans will turn on at the higher temps and it will cool back down.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 8,847
Likes: 794
From: Longview Texas
Whenever I change coolant, I always start with a cold engine.
Drain the coolant, start and run the engine with the cap off, until the thermostat opens, then put the cap on and drive it a short distance until it is up to full temperature. '
I let it set overnight until the coolant is cold and the level drops in the tank, then fill it to the proper level.
Check it after driving it a few times to make sure the level is still where it is supposed to be.
I usually fill mine a little above the full cold mark to minimize the air left in the tank.
Drain the coolant, start and run the engine with the cap off, until the thermostat opens, then put the cap on and drive it a short distance until it is up to full temperature. '
I let it set overnight until the coolant is cold and the level drops in the tank, then fill it to the proper level.
Check it after driving it a few times to make sure the level is still where it is supposed to be.
I usually fill mine a little above the full cold mark to minimize the air left in the tank.
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,722
Likes: 138
From: Florida
St. Jude Donor '09
I recall reading that you should use distilled water,,,NOT deionized water. Deionized can lead to corrosion of the system.I would recommend some research on this!!
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 8,847
Likes: 794
From: Longview Texas
Anyone know what water Prestone uses in the premixed bottles?
They used to sell DI water by the gallon, but I guess not enough people would pay that much for water so they quit making it.
They used to sell DI water by the gallon, but I guess not enough people would pay that much for water so they quit making it.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,962
Likes: 29
From: Van Buren Arkansas
Wounded Warrior Escort '11
Whenever I change coolant, I always start with a cold engine.
Drain the coolant, start and run the engine with the cap off, until the thermostat opens, then put the cap on and drive it a short distance until it is up to full temperature. '
I let it set overnight until the coolant is cold and the level drops in the tank, then fill it to the proper level.
Check it after driving it a few times to make sure the level is still where it is supposed to be.
I usually fill mine a little above the full cold mark to minimize the air left in the tank.
Drain the coolant, start and run the engine with the cap off, until the thermostat opens, then put the cap on and drive it a short distance until it is up to full temperature. '
I let it set overnight until the coolant is cold and the level drops in the tank, then fill it to the proper level.
Check it after driving it a few times to make sure the level is still where it is supposed to be.
I usually fill mine a little above the full cold mark to minimize the air left in the tank.
Banned Scam/Spammer
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From: Fort St John B.C