97 A4 No start
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 274
Likes: 0
From: Naples Fl
97 A4 No start
I've done all the basics, and looked at Bill Curlee's whole sticky at this point I have no codes thrown, Known good Batt and starter since I can jump the TDR connection and get the car to crank and run.
I've Swapped in an aftermarket TDR No change Autozone took it back
(had 5 pins vs 4 they claim it is equivalent). No change with wiggling and extended crank of the IGN switch, moving shifter from P to N and wiggling, Fuel Pump runs, I get the click in Pass footwell.
There is an issue somewhere between the Ign switch and TDR. Where should I be looking and how do I meter it? I have a nice meter but no real experience on electrical trouble shooting. I refuse to let the dealer club me over the head. Thanks in advance!
I've Swapped in an aftermarket TDR No change Autozone took it back
(had 5 pins vs 4 they claim it is equivalent). No change with wiggling and extended crank of the IGN switch, moving shifter from P to N and wiggling, Fuel Pump runs, I get the click in Pass footwell.
There is an issue somewhere between the Ign switch and TDR. Where should I be looking and how do I meter it? I have a nice meter but no real experience on electrical trouble shooting. I refuse to let the dealer club me over the head. Thanks in advance!
Pro
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 735
Likes: 7
From: Bucks County Pa
No Start
Hi, I'm not sure if you are saying that the car will crank but not run, or that it will not crank without jumping the tdr. So I'm posting this info to start with, maybe it will help you. More info needed, dtc codes etc..Just for the heck of it, have you checked fuses 14, 48, 50 ip center, and cleaned the key pellet.
Good Luck
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Content Theft Deterrent (CTD) Description
Universal Theft Deterrent System
The Universal Theft Deterrent (UTD) system is standard equipment on this vehicle. UTD provides an audible warning (using the vehicle horns) and/or lights in the event of an unauthorized entry through the doors, hatch/trunk or hood (export). The UTD is an internal function of the BCM which utilizes PASS-Key®, serial data , and various switch input information to perform UTD functions. The Powertrain Control Module (PCM) controls the fuel enable circuit. The BCM must exchange a unique password with the PCM to allow fuel enable processing to occur. If the BCM detects an illegal intrusion, the BCM will disable cranking and the PCM will not allow fuel delivery to the fuel injectors.
BCM Inputs/Outputs
The BCM receives input information from various systems to determine what state of the UTD system should be in. The BCM can receive this information from either a direct input (hard wired) or from the serial data line. Refer to Theft Deterrent Diagnostic Information on how the BCM receives UTD inputs.
Inputs
The BCM monitors the following inputs affecting UTD:
Driver door ajar switch
Passenger door ajar switch
Hatch ajar switch
Driver power door lock/unlock switch
Hood ajar switch (export only)
Passenger power door lock/unlock switch
Courtesy light switch
PASS-Key® input
Driver door lock cylinder switch
Passenger door lock cylinder switch
Key in ignition switch
Park/headlamp switch
Outputs
The BCM controls the following outputs for UTD:
Horn relay
Courtesy lights
Backup lights
Front/rear fog lights
RH/LH turn signals
Theft deterrent relay (starter enable)
Password exchange with the PCM (fuel enable)
BCM Interface with Remote Function Actuation (RFA) System
The RFA system interacts with the UTD system (part of the BCM operation) in the following ways:
RFA system sends a UNLOCK (passive or active) message on the serial data line to the BCM.
Upon receiving a UNLOCK message from the RFA system, the BCM turns the courtesy lamps ON (if ambient light is low) and disarms the UTD system.
Upon receiving an LOCK message on the serial data line from RFA system, the BCM turns the courtesy lamps OFF, and momentarily sounds the horn and/or flashes the lights (depending on selected personalize options) to indicate security system arming.
Arming the UTD System
When one door, both doors or the hatch is opened, the SECURITY indicator on the instrument panel flashes as a reminder to arm the system. If after 10 minutes the door or hatch has not been closed, the flashing SECURITY indicator will turn OFF.
To arm the UTD system perform the following steps:
Turn OFF the ignition switch.
With the driver or passenger door open, press one of the power door lock switches. OR
Press the LOCK button on the remote transmitter or walk out of range with the passive switch ON.
This puts the UTD system in the active mode, where it has detected that the arming request has been made, but the vehicle is not yet secured (i.e. both doors are not shut). This state is indicated by the SECURITY indicator changing from flashing to ON continuously. If the vehicle is not secured after 10 minutes, the SECURITY indicator is turned OFF. It is important to note that the system will not be armed if the doors are locked manually; the power door lock switch or remote control transmitter (RFA) system must be used.
When the power lock switch or remote transmitter has been activated and both doors and the hatch are closed, the UTD is in the Doors and Hatch Armed State. In this mode, the UTD is monitoring for an illegal intrusion into the vehicle through the doors or hatch. This is the most common armed state of the UTD, as it represents the usual state of a driver leaving the vehicle with the security system set.
When the power lock switch has been activated and both doors are closed, but the hatch is open, the UTD is in the Doors Armed State. In this state, the UTD is monitoring for an illegal intrusion into the vehicle through the doors. If the hatch is closed, the change in state of the hatch ajar switch will not be considered an intrusion, and the alarm will not be activated. If the hatch is not closed, the UTD system will remain in the doors armed mode and will ignore the hatch ajar switch input and the SECURITY indicator will go out.
Activating the UTD System
An illegal intrusion is defined as activity on any one of the following BCM inputs without the BCM first noting proper disarming of the UTD system:
Driver door ajar switch
Courtesy light switch
Passenger door ajar switch
Hatch ajar switch
Turn ON the ignition switch (with an invalid PASS Key Detected)
Hood ajar switch (export only)
Park/headlamp switch
Power door unlock switch
If the BCM senses an intrusion it enters alarm mode. The BCM sounds the vehicle horns and/or flashes the lights (depending on selected personalize options) at approximately once a second, disables engine cranking through the PASS-Key® system, and the PCM disables fuel delivery. The alarm mode is active for approximately 2 minutes (30 seconds export) with the ignition and fuel system disabled. This is followed by a 3 minute time-out with the horn no longer active. If no new intrusions are detected after the time-out, the horn is kept OFF. The system must be disarmed or the intrusion condition removed after the time-out for the system to exit alarm mode and the BCM to re-enable the ignition and PCM re-enable the fuel system.
Disarming the UTD System
The UTD system is normally disabled by unlocking the door by using the door lock cylinder or remote transmitter. This allows normal owner entry into the vehicle without setting off the alarm.
To disarm the UTD system perform the following steps:
Insert the key in the door lock cylinder and rotate it as if normally unlocking the door.
Insert the correct Pass-Key® into the ignition lock cylinder on the steering column and turn ON the ignition switch.
Press the UNLOCK button on the remote transmitter or walk into range with the passive switch ON.
It is important to note that, somewhat like not being able to arm the system using the manual lock switch, manually unlocking the doors will not disable the UTD alarm mode. Also, using the power door unlock switch will not disable UTD alarm mode. Disconnecting the battery or pulling fuses will not disable alarm mode, since the BCM stores the theft deterrent status in the EEPROM, and will go back into alarm mode when the battery is reconnected. Only the three actions described above will successfully disarm UTD alarm mode.
Personal Automotive Security (PASS-Key®) System
The PASS-Key® system is a subsystem function of the BCM, which operates using an ignition key with one of 15 resistor pellets embedded in the key. The BCM samples the resistor pellet when the ignition is turned to the ON position. The BCM compares the resistor value in the key to a resistive window to which the PASS-Key® system has been programmed; refer to PASS-Key Programming . If the resistance of the key does not fit into the programmed window resistance, the BCM will not activate the vehicle theft deterrent relay, the steering column will remain LOCKED, and the PCM will disable fuel by disabling the fuel injectors. The PASS-Key® system operates independently of the UTD system; it provides protection even if the UTD system is not armed. However, when UTD is armed and enters alarm mode, the BCM disables cranking and PCM disable fuel delivery. The PASS-Key® system also will disarm the UTD system from its armed or alarm modes if the ignition key with the proper resistor pellet is inserted into the ignition lock cylinder and the ignition is turned ON.
PASS-Key® System Components
BCM
The PASS-Key® system is a subsystem of the BCM. The BCM provides all the logic necessary to operate the PASS-Key® system. The BCM uses direct input information from other systems or components to determine the status of the PASS-Key® system. The BCM controls its output functions based on PASS-Key® status.
PCM
The PASS-Key® fuel enable function is provided by the PCM. When the BCM detects a PASS-Key® resistance value, the BCM and PCM must exchange the correct password in order for the PCM to enable fuel.
Ignition Cylinder and Key
The ignition is used by the PASS-Key® system to determine if the correct key is being used to start the vehicle. When the ignition is first turned ON, the BCM measures the key resistance through the sensing contacts located in the ignition switch.
Steering Column Lock
The PASS-Key® system is able to provide steering column LOCK functions. The BCM provides output control allowing the BCM to LOCK or UNLOCK the steering column electronically based on PASS-Key® status.
Theft Deterrent Relay
The PASS-Key® system can disable engine cranking through the theft deterrent relay. When the BCM detects the correct PASS-Key® resistance value, the BCM grounds the theft deterrent relay coil circuit, which allows the engine to be cranked.
PASS-Key® System Inputs/Outputs
Inputs
The BCM monitors the following as inputs affecting PASS-Key® system:
PASS-Key® input
PASS-Key® return
Outputs
The BCM controls the following outputs for PASS-Key®
Theft deterrent relay
Password exchange with the PCM (fuel enable).
Steering column lock motor
PASS-Key® Time-Out
When the PASS-Key® system detects an invalid key, the PASS-Key® system disables cranking and fuel enable for a time-out period of approximately 3 minutes. If a key is inserted or the ignition is turned ON before the 3 minute time-out is complete, the timer will reset to 3 minutes. Disconnecting the battery or pulling fuses will not disable the time-out; the BCM stores the PASS-Key® state in EEPROM, and will restart the minute timer when the battery is reconnected. Even if the proper resistance key is inserted during the time-out the vehicle will not start until the total time period has expired.
Fuel Enable
The BCM and PCM operate in conjunction with each other to determine fuel enable. The fuel enable system uses a password exchange between the BCM and PCM after a correct PASS-Key® has been sampled by the BCM. The serial data line is used to communicate this password information from the BCM to the PCM. When the BCM stored password, is sent to the PCM over the serial data line, the PCM checks if the password matches its own stored password. If the password matches, the PCM will enable fuel delivery. If the password does not match, the PCM will disable fuel delivery and store a DTC.
Good Luck
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Content Theft Deterrent (CTD) Description
Universal Theft Deterrent System
The Universal Theft Deterrent (UTD) system is standard equipment on this vehicle. UTD provides an audible warning (using the vehicle horns) and/or lights in the event of an unauthorized entry through the doors, hatch/trunk or hood (export). The UTD is an internal function of the BCM which utilizes PASS-Key®, serial data , and various switch input information to perform UTD functions. The Powertrain Control Module (PCM) controls the fuel enable circuit. The BCM must exchange a unique password with the PCM to allow fuel enable processing to occur. If the BCM detects an illegal intrusion, the BCM will disable cranking and the PCM will not allow fuel delivery to the fuel injectors.
BCM Inputs/Outputs
The BCM receives input information from various systems to determine what state of the UTD system should be in. The BCM can receive this information from either a direct input (hard wired) or from the serial data line. Refer to Theft Deterrent Diagnostic Information on how the BCM receives UTD inputs.
Inputs
The BCM monitors the following inputs affecting UTD:
Driver door ajar switch
Passenger door ajar switch
Hatch ajar switch
Driver power door lock/unlock switch
Hood ajar switch (export only)
Passenger power door lock/unlock switch
Courtesy light switch
PASS-Key® input
Driver door lock cylinder switch
Passenger door lock cylinder switch
Key in ignition switch
Park/headlamp switch
Outputs
The BCM controls the following outputs for UTD:
Horn relay
Courtesy lights
Backup lights
Front/rear fog lights
RH/LH turn signals
Theft deterrent relay (starter enable)
Password exchange with the PCM (fuel enable)
BCM Interface with Remote Function Actuation (RFA) System
The RFA system interacts with the UTD system (part of the BCM operation) in the following ways:
RFA system sends a UNLOCK (passive or active) message on the serial data line to the BCM.
Upon receiving a UNLOCK message from the RFA system, the BCM turns the courtesy lamps ON (if ambient light is low) and disarms the UTD system.
Upon receiving an LOCK message on the serial data line from RFA system, the BCM turns the courtesy lamps OFF, and momentarily sounds the horn and/or flashes the lights (depending on selected personalize options) to indicate security system arming.
Arming the UTD System
When one door, both doors or the hatch is opened, the SECURITY indicator on the instrument panel flashes as a reminder to arm the system. If after 10 minutes the door or hatch has not been closed, the flashing SECURITY indicator will turn OFF.
To arm the UTD system perform the following steps:
Turn OFF the ignition switch.
With the driver or passenger door open, press one of the power door lock switches. OR
Press the LOCK button on the remote transmitter or walk out of range with the passive switch ON.
This puts the UTD system in the active mode, where it has detected that the arming request has been made, but the vehicle is not yet secured (i.e. both doors are not shut). This state is indicated by the SECURITY indicator changing from flashing to ON continuously. If the vehicle is not secured after 10 minutes, the SECURITY indicator is turned OFF. It is important to note that the system will not be armed if the doors are locked manually; the power door lock switch or remote control transmitter (RFA) system must be used.
When the power lock switch or remote transmitter has been activated and both doors and the hatch are closed, the UTD is in the Doors and Hatch Armed State. In this mode, the UTD is monitoring for an illegal intrusion into the vehicle through the doors or hatch. This is the most common armed state of the UTD, as it represents the usual state of a driver leaving the vehicle with the security system set.
When the power lock switch has been activated and both doors are closed, but the hatch is open, the UTD is in the Doors Armed State. In this state, the UTD is monitoring for an illegal intrusion into the vehicle through the doors. If the hatch is closed, the change in state of the hatch ajar switch will not be considered an intrusion, and the alarm will not be activated. If the hatch is not closed, the UTD system will remain in the doors armed mode and will ignore the hatch ajar switch input and the SECURITY indicator will go out.
Activating the UTD System
An illegal intrusion is defined as activity on any one of the following BCM inputs without the BCM first noting proper disarming of the UTD system:
Driver door ajar switch
Courtesy light switch
Passenger door ajar switch
Hatch ajar switch
Turn ON the ignition switch (with an invalid PASS Key Detected)
Hood ajar switch (export only)
Park/headlamp switch
Power door unlock switch
If the BCM senses an intrusion it enters alarm mode. The BCM sounds the vehicle horns and/or flashes the lights (depending on selected personalize options) at approximately once a second, disables engine cranking through the PASS-Key® system, and the PCM disables fuel delivery. The alarm mode is active for approximately 2 minutes (30 seconds export) with the ignition and fuel system disabled. This is followed by a 3 minute time-out with the horn no longer active. If no new intrusions are detected after the time-out, the horn is kept OFF. The system must be disarmed or the intrusion condition removed after the time-out for the system to exit alarm mode and the BCM to re-enable the ignition and PCM re-enable the fuel system.
Disarming the UTD System
The UTD system is normally disabled by unlocking the door by using the door lock cylinder or remote transmitter. This allows normal owner entry into the vehicle without setting off the alarm.
To disarm the UTD system perform the following steps:
Insert the key in the door lock cylinder and rotate it as if normally unlocking the door.
Insert the correct Pass-Key® into the ignition lock cylinder on the steering column and turn ON the ignition switch.
Press the UNLOCK button on the remote transmitter or walk into range with the passive switch ON.
It is important to note that, somewhat like not being able to arm the system using the manual lock switch, manually unlocking the doors will not disable the UTD alarm mode. Also, using the power door unlock switch will not disable UTD alarm mode. Disconnecting the battery or pulling fuses will not disable alarm mode, since the BCM stores the theft deterrent status in the EEPROM, and will go back into alarm mode when the battery is reconnected. Only the three actions described above will successfully disarm UTD alarm mode.
Personal Automotive Security (PASS-Key®) System
The PASS-Key® system is a subsystem function of the BCM, which operates using an ignition key with one of 15 resistor pellets embedded in the key. The BCM samples the resistor pellet when the ignition is turned to the ON position. The BCM compares the resistor value in the key to a resistive window to which the PASS-Key® system has been programmed; refer to PASS-Key Programming . If the resistance of the key does not fit into the programmed window resistance, the BCM will not activate the vehicle theft deterrent relay, the steering column will remain LOCKED, and the PCM will disable fuel by disabling the fuel injectors. The PASS-Key® system operates independently of the UTD system; it provides protection even if the UTD system is not armed. However, when UTD is armed and enters alarm mode, the BCM disables cranking and PCM disable fuel delivery. The PASS-Key® system also will disarm the UTD system from its armed or alarm modes if the ignition key with the proper resistor pellet is inserted into the ignition lock cylinder and the ignition is turned ON.
PASS-Key® System Components
BCM
The PASS-Key® system is a subsystem of the BCM. The BCM provides all the logic necessary to operate the PASS-Key® system. The BCM uses direct input information from other systems or components to determine the status of the PASS-Key® system. The BCM controls its output functions based on PASS-Key® status.
PCM
The PASS-Key® fuel enable function is provided by the PCM. When the BCM detects a PASS-Key® resistance value, the BCM and PCM must exchange the correct password in order for the PCM to enable fuel.
Ignition Cylinder and Key
The ignition is used by the PASS-Key® system to determine if the correct key is being used to start the vehicle. When the ignition is first turned ON, the BCM measures the key resistance through the sensing contacts located in the ignition switch.
Steering Column Lock
The PASS-Key® system is able to provide steering column LOCK functions. The BCM provides output control allowing the BCM to LOCK or UNLOCK the steering column electronically based on PASS-Key® status.
Theft Deterrent Relay
The PASS-Key® system can disable engine cranking through the theft deterrent relay. When the BCM detects the correct PASS-Key® resistance value, the BCM grounds the theft deterrent relay coil circuit, which allows the engine to be cranked.
PASS-Key® System Inputs/Outputs
Inputs
The BCM monitors the following as inputs affecting PASS-Key® system:
PASS-Key® input
PASS-Key® return
Outputs
The BCM controls the following outputs for PASS-Key®
Theft deterrent relay
Password exchange with the PCM (fuel enable).
Steering column lock motor
PASS-Key® Time-Out
When the PASS-Key® system detects an invalid key, the PASS-Key® system disables cranking and fuel enable for a time-out period of approximately 3 minutes. If a key is inserted or the ignition is turned ON before the 3 minute time-out is complete, the timer will reset to 3 minutes. Disconnecting the battery or pulling fuses will not disable the time-out; the BCM stores the PASS-Key® state in EEPROM, and will restart the minute timer when the battery is reconnected. Even if the proper resistance key is inserted during the time-out the vehicle will not start until the total time period has expired.
Fuel Enable
The BCM and PCM operate in conjunction with each other to determine fuel enable. The fuel enable system uses a password exchange between the BCM and PCM after a correct PASS-Key® has been sampled by the BCM. The serial data line is used to communicate this password information from the BCM to the PCM. When the BCM stored password, is sent to the PCM over the serial data line, the PCM checks if the password matches its own stored password. If the password matches, the PCM will enable fuel delivery. If the password does not match, the PCM will disable fuel delivery and store a DTC.
Last edited by bestvettever; Aug 10, 2008 at 11:49 PM.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 274
Likes: 0
From: Naples Fl
Still will not crank
Thanks for the info I tried the disarm UTC steps but it still will not crank, did show B2723 C which is a pass key code, will try other key etc. But I can get the car to turn over and run if I jump the TDR. any ideas where this points?
Pro
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 735
Likes: 7
From: Bucks County Pa
No Start
Good Luck
