Need to do some background research and before spending plenty of time bending the ears of vendors, I want a little education :)

What separates Stage I from Stage II....assuming the same cam, it's all flow through the heads, ie, head work?

Is it worth looking into picking up a set of LS6 head and delivering to a place like CNC in Orlando?

Is it better to get a package...ie heads/cam?

Does a package usually come with all the necessary goodies, new valves, springs, retainers, etc....and what are the general thoughts here?

I know hp and emmisssions are all dependent on the grind....xxx/xxx of the cam, whatever the hell that means...so what's the general thoughts on cams and is $300 a good average price?

Thanks in advance :) :cheers:

 

Boy, this is a can of worms.... I could write a book here, but I am a little under the weather today... :( I will make it short.

Our stage II heads include full porting and polishing of the intake and exhaust. We like to keep the runner size down which will give you phenominal torque on the low side while still building huge power on the top end!
We also reconfigure the combustion chamber to aid in flame propagation.
We use only Ferrea 6000 series competition stainless steel one piece valves
in the stage II heads. The intake is 2.020" and the exhaust is 1.570".
We have titanium, super-light weight retainers and top notch keepers, locks, and seals. They are complete ready to bolt on with the install heights set.
These go for $1999.95 on an exchange basis.

Camshafts are a different game. I can spend anywhere from $340 for a steel off the shelf grind to well over $500 on a billet core custom grind.
All of our camshafts are custom ground from billet cores(not like most others). This assures us or virtual indestructability. For passing emissions, the cam I would suggest is our #2 grind probably on a 114* LSA. The duration is 222/222 and the lift comes in at .540/.540. You will have a slight idle change, but still maintain GREAT idle characteristics and be able to drive it in any situation.
The cams go for $495 and again are billet cores.

Our Stage III heads have additional port work done as well as new intake valve seats to accomodate larger valves. For a stock bottom end, I do not recommend this. The 2.02 valve is the largest that I would use on a 3.90" bore.

Hope all this is educational for you and I hope it helps.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

Didn't I say I was going to make this short
:confused: :confused: :confused:

 

great info...thanks Chris, exactly what I'm looking for :)

 

anyone else wanna give a little input :)

 

Thanks for the information. :yesnod: Could you also please comment on the use of LS6 heads as Mean Green 2000 asked. Is it worth anything to switch to those?

 

I am glad Mean Green started this thread. Seems I have the same questions. I have some money about to burn a hole in my pocket and a bone stock car. I want to have the fastest car I can get, yet still have the drivability of a every day driver car. Heck my car has 55,000 miles on it already.

So where does that leave me? Stage I, Stage II, or wait a couple months and do S/C. No don't get off topic, help us out with H/C answers. Can you reach 400 RWHP and still have a smooth driving every day car?

 

The "stage" terms vary from tuner to tuner and you have to make sure you are comparing apples to apples when shopping for a heads/cam package.

Most company's stage 1 heads have stock valves with a bit of CNC porting work done to the heads. These usually do not have valve spring setups meant for high lift agressive cams. ARE is in the process of coming out with a set of heads to compete on this level at a great price.

Most company's stage 2 heads have a bit more agressive porting done to them, and have slightly larger 2.02/1.57 valves but maintain the stock sized guides and seats. These usually also have better valve springs that can handle a more agressive camshaft with higher lift. These heads work great with a heads/cam only setup but if you ever desire to go with a stroker or all-bore bottom end, you will most likely need larger valves than these heads have. ARE calls this level of heads their Stage I heads.

Most company's Stage 3 heads have even more agressive porting and larger valve guides/seats for larger 2.055/1.60 or 2.08/1.60 or 2.10/1.60 valves. The machining required for the larger guides and seats to accomodate these larger valves is quite extensive and is a major reason for the price increase between this level of head and the one beneath it. These heads also usually come with a dual valve spring setup that is great for real high lift camshafts. These heads have large enough valves and can be opened up for the larger bore of a future stroker or all-bore bottom end. If you want the ultimate head for a heads/cam package with future upgradability to a done up bottom end, then these heads are the level you want. ARE calls these heads their Stage II.

LS6 castings are about $1400 to purchase outright, which is still about $900 more than even keeping your own LS1 heads and paying the core charge. On a heads/cam setup I would say going with LS6 castings is maybe worth an extra 5-7rwhp. If you plan to go with a big cube super stroker, then the LS6 heads are probably worth an extra 10-15rwhp. If you dont mind the extra cost of the LS6 castings, they are the way to go but many people cannot justify the cost for 5-7rwhp which is very understandable. Personally, I am sticking with my ARE Stage II LS1 heads when I go with my 436ci bottom end in the next few months.

I do believe it is a very good idea to stick with a proven Heads/Cam package from a reputable tuner that has put out many LS1 packages with great results. It is possible to mix heads from a tuner with a self-selected camshaft but then the tuning is usually in your hands to make right which for some is no big deal, but for others it is. Most tuners have done a lot of R&D and they no the best cams to match with their heads to get the results they are after. They usually also have PCM programs developed around these head/cam combos which require less fine-tuning than starting from scratch with a mystery cam.

Depending on what stage you choose, most head/cam packages come assembled and complete with new valves, valvesprings, retainers, locks and pushrods.

I hope this explanation helps out a bit.




[Modified by MattG, 11:48 AM 1/3/2002]

 

Hi Matt, our old LT1 350 heads we used to do porting work on had 2.20 intake & 1.94 exhaust...I'm curious as to why the migration to smaller exhaust valves...does this aid in more torque through the rpm range? (we had some killer sized valves in the Brodix heads we used on some mills, but they were built for high RPM power band.)

 

MattG, You do not run larger guides for larger valves. It is the valve seat that needs to be larger with the larger valves. :) The guides are what the valves ride. The valve stem diameter does not change, and as a matter of fact, in really exotic heads, the valve stem gets smaller so smaller guides are needed. :) :)

 

Well, the LS6 heads are nice castings with some definite improvement over the LS1 heads, especially in the combustion chamber area. It really boils down the $$$. The LS6 heads will allow you to go a little faster. You will get anywhere from 5-20 RWHP depending on the application. You just have to determine if the cost is worth it to you. :)

 

Gotta love that! Someone who bought the car to drive!!! :cheers: :cool: :cheers:
For us guys that like to row though the gears, 400 RWHP is pretty easy with heads, cam, intake and headers. You can do this with a pretty concervative camshaft also.
The cam I listed above is good for around 420+ RWHP.

If you would like some more information, feel free to give me a ring or drop me an email. I am always willing to help. :)
Thanks,

 

I wanna add only one thing.

I have Chris`s heads/cam sitting in my garage waiting for the install.
These heads are looking great!
My friend, who will install these is a Corvette Racer and also builds his own engines.
He said this heads are AWESOME work and that they will give me very good
torque and hp through the whole powerband.
Can´t wait to get them installed and dyno them.

I need to get my babe into the 9´s on heads/cam :D (hope my bottom end holds it ;)

I sure will need that heavy duty head gaskets and the head studs :)

Michael


[Modified by Austrian Vette, 7:32 PM 1/3/2002]

 

once again...a great round of info....thanks everyone!!!

MattG, you brought up a good point about the pcm...I'm running a PLII now, how will that affect intalling a good h/c package from a know, reputable source, who already knows the tuning.....did I mis-step wanting the gains of the PL now, if I go with h/c

 

Mark, since you already have the Powerloader for your car I would probably recommend getting Steve Cole to do your tuning for you. You can send him your PL back with your head/cam specs and he will do his best to get the tuning working properly on the first revision. He is usually pretty dead nuts with his tuning on the first try.

I have had quite a few PL customers send their PL back to Steve for reprogramming for heads/cam and the results were usually great. The more agressive of heads/cam package you go with, the more dead nuts the tuning has to be. I have a feeling you are looking more for a good daily drivable h/c package that makes great power. For your desires Steve Cole should be able to change your Powerloader program accordingly for only a $75 reprogramming fee. This is definitely one advantage of the Powerloader: you really only pay the PCM programming fee once and future updates for mods are VERY cheap.




[Modified by MattG, 2:09 PM 1/3/2002]

 

thanks again Matt....figured that was the case, just wanted to make sure :)

if I go this route I'd really love to hit that magical 400rwhp, I know it's gonna be near impossible with the A4, but gears/conv are already here and with lt headers, and ud pulley (already here) I 'd hope it'd be close :)

 

Mean Green, With you being in Tampa, contact Mike Norris in Orlando and tell him what you want. Thinking he will be able to do the heads and cam install and programming. Most of the tuners, are very good at tuning the packages they have built. Norris is one of the most respected after market tuners on the Forum and he is very close to you in case you need fine tuning after the work is done. Geography is an important issue for most of us if we want to take the car back for some tweaking. Whiteboy :chevy

 

thanks.....I know Mike and have talked to him a little bit so far......as for the programming, I already have the PL, so I'm committed there :)

 

Hey Mark...Your really getting into this mod thing!

I'm gonna be watching you! :chevy

 

no way Vince....I still haven't located a transgo yet, I was watching YOU :lol:

still haven't decided to travel that road yet but I am doing a lot of apple to apple comparisons :)

I still wanna start on the interior mods I have planned, but everyone is screaming for "go fast" mods, like I'm suprised :)