and make sure you go to a place that does not lock the pcm.
Looking for a tuner around nyc
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 5,562
Likes: 5
From: South East coast Florida
hey, where did my post go on the history of the dyno????????
I was responding to this statement....
"Quite a few of us motorheads have our own preferences as to who touches our vehicles ,but to base tuning ability on lack of a dyno at the shop is a little shallow in thought. It begs the question," How
did tuning get accomplished with success before the advent of a
dyno.""
The answer was the Dyno has been around since 1939.....well ahead of tuning!
Did I break any rules with it??
Ed
I was responding to this statement....
"Quite a few of us motorheads have our own preferences as to who touches our vehicles ,but to base tuning ability on lack of a dyno at the shop is a little shallow in thought. It begs the question," How
did tuning get accomplished with success before the advent of a
dyno.""
The answer was the Dyno has been around since 1939.....well ahead of tuning!
Did I break any rules with it??
Ed
Last edited by mowton; Sep 3, 2008 at 08:37 PM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 781
Likes: 82
From: MA
FYI Chuck used a wideband for my street tune and we will use it again next Tues. for my retune when we change some trans parts.
I'm sure that there are many competent tuners across the USA and they all have their loyal customers which is a great thing.
Chuck CoW has done right by me on my A6 coupe as have other tuners on my other project cars. He will also tune my Z06 after I finish my ARH header etc. install.
Bottom line know what you're looking for in the end result. Is your Vette a DD, some 1/4 mi. or some RR, then ask some questions of the various tuners here on CF, then ask some more questions and when you feel comfortable with the answers, then decide on a tuner shop. They will have some certain specialties which may overlap. In the end they all have good things to offer you and after all it's your Corvette and you want it right.
I'm sure that there are many competent tuners across the USA and they all have their loyal customers which is a great thing.
Chuck CoW has done right by me on my A6 coupe as have other tuners on my other project cars. He will also tune my Z06 after I finish my ARH header etc. install.
Bottom line know what you're looking for in the end result. Is your Vette a DD, some 1/4 mi. or some RR, then ask some questions of the various tuners here on CF, then ask some more questions and when you feel comfortable with the answers, then decide on a tuner shop. They will have some certain specialties which may overlap. In the end they all have good things to offer you and after all it's your Corvette and you want it right.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 5,562
Likes: 5
From: South East coast Florida
From what I know, you can not establish torque values without a dyno to zero in on peak timing, fueling and advance to reach maximum cylinder pressure or catching the piston at exactly the right time to make the most power. You can utilize the knock sensor but that isn't near as accurate.
The wideband will certainly allow for a accurate AFR and allow for a safe fueling/timing startegy and hone in on Commanded vs measured AFR.
The wideband will certainly allow for a accurate AFR and allow for a safe fueling/timing startegy and hone in on Commanded vs measured AFR.
Last edited by mowton; Sep 3, 2008 at 09:11 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,130
Likes: 3
From: Winter Park FL
Tech Contributor
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 32,910
Likes: 2,402
From: Anthony TX
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
torchvette10,
Just so I understand this clearly, according to your profile, you are Polish, live in Europe, and somehow split your time between England and France.
That's 3,000 miles away.
Your car, according to your sig, is tuned by Phil Hoefler in Michigan. Call that another 1,000 miles away.
So, you've never actually used any of the shops you discuss in your posts, yet you feel you can make authoritative (and in one case, belittling) comments about them. Have you ever actually been in the U.S.?
On the other hand, I have been to each of these shops over the last eight years, have used at least some of them for my own car (including their dyno when Vette Doctors didn't have one and was still going to Lizzard Racing, another speed shop across town -- you do know about that, don't you?). I also have close friends who have had experience with these shops, and live within 10-100 miles of all the shops.
Do you think it's fair that you give such emphatic advice on shops that you have never seen, visited, used, and only heard about while sitting in France?
YES!! TORCHVETTE has been to the USA. He's been to my house, we had dinner at Ruby Tuesdays and he lost $20 Mohegan Sun Casino.
He's a extremely nice person and very intelligent. I let him drive all my cars. He was impressed.
I'm quite sure he is basing his experiences on the quality work that he has received (mail order) from various shops here in the US. Receiving services across the pond is sometimes very challenging. Your at the Mercy of the shop that your doing business with. It not like your going to come back to the shop the next day and ask them to stuff.
Bill
Former Vendor
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 11,792
Likes: 255
From: Ossining New York
St. Jude Donor '07-'08-'09-'10-'12-'13-'14
From what I see here....It looks like....
From what I see here....It looks like....The original poster is looking for a shop in or around NYC to work on his vette...
Several of you were kind enough to offer your opinions and offer recommendations for various local shops...Unfortunately, most of you recommended your favorite local shop and simultaneously took cheap shots at CoW trying to discredit a very popular tuner with a fantastic reputation and excellent results in an effort to promote your favorite tuner.
What I don't see here is customers of CoW or the owner or employees of CoW making derogatory comments about his competitors in an effort to direct business to CoW. They simply state their experiences with CoW and report on their positive experiences with CoW and offer their recommendations.
For some reason, the few that are promoting the other shops feel the need to sling mud at CoW (despite their excellent reputation) in an effort to promote their favorite shop and direct business away from CoW.
QUESTION: Why is it then that you WILL NEVER SEE CoW or his EMPLOYEES, or CUSTOMERS BAD MOUTHING OTHER VENDORS to promote CoW???
ANSWER: The owners, employees, and customers of CoW believe that it is unnecessary and inappropriate to bash other vendors in an effort to promote CoW. Our reputation speaks for itself and it is totally inappropriate to drag other vendors down wile promoting ourselves.
It appears that those of you hell bent on discrediting CoW should concentrate on the positives of the business you patronize rather than inventing negatives about competitors who are a threat to you and your favorite tuner.
LET'S ALL GROW UP HERE. ABSOLUTELY, promote the shop that you patronize....but, please do not waste your time bashing the competition to direct business to your tuner....
It's low class....and very transparent....
Chuck CoW
Several of you were kind enough to offer your opinions and offer recommendations for various local shops...Unfortunately, most of you recommended your favorite local shop and simultaneously took cheap shots at CoW trying to discredit a very popular tuner with a fantastic reputation and excellent results in an effort to promote your favorite tuner.
What I don't see here is customers of CoW or the owner or employees of CoW making derogatory comments about his competitors in an effort to direct business to CoW. They simply state their experiences with CoW and report on their positive experiences with CoW and offer their recommendations.
For some reason, the few that are promoting the other shops feel the need to sling mud at CoW (despite their excellent reputation) in an effort to promote their favorite shop and direct business away from CoW.
QUESTION: Why is it then that you WILL NEVER SEE CoW or his EMPLOYEES, or CUSTOMERS BAD MOUTHING OTHER VENDORS to promote CoW???
ANSWER: The owners, employees, and customers of CoW believe that it is unnecessary and inappropriate to bash other vendors in an effort to promote CoW. Our reputation speaks for itself and it is totally inappropriate to drag other vendors down wile promoting ourselves.
It appears that those of you hell bent on discrediting CoW should concentrate on the positives of the business you patronize rather than inventing negatives about competitors who are a threat to you and your favorite tuner.
LET'S ALL GROW UP HERE. ABSOLUTELY, promote the shop that you patronize....but, please do not waste your time bashing the competition to direct business to your tuner....
It's low class....and very transparent....
Chuck CoW
Last edited by Chuck CoW; Sep 3, 2008 at 11:10 PM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 783
Likes: 0
From: Phoenix Arizona
From what I see here....It looks like....The original poster is looking for a shop in or around NYC to work on his vette...
Several of you were kind enough to offer your opinions and offer recommendations for various local shops...Unfortunately, most of you recommended your favorite local shop and simultaneously took cheap shots at CoW trying to discredit a very popular tuner with a fantastic reputation and excellent results in an effort to promote your favorite tuner.
What I don't see here is customers of CoW or the owner or employees of CoW making derogatory comments about his competitors in an effort to direct business to CoW. They simply state their experiences with CoW and report on their positive experiences with CoW and offer their recommendations.
For some reason, the few that are promoting the other shops feel the need to sling mud at CoW (despite their excellent reputation) in an effort to promote their favorite shop and direct business away from CoW.
QUESTION: Why is it then that you WILL NEVER SEE CoW or his EMPLOYEES, or CUSTOMERS BAD MOUTHING OTHER VENDORS to promote CoW???
ANSWER: The owners, employees, and customers of CoW believe that it is unnecessary and inappropriate to bash other vendors in an effort to promote CoW. Our reputation speaks for itself and it is totally inappropriate to drag other vendors down wile promoting ourselves.
It appears that those of you hell bent on discrediting CoW should concentrate on the positives of the business you patronize rather than inventing negatives about competitors who are a threat to you and your favorite tuner.
LET'S ALL GROW UP HERE. ABSOLUTELY, promote the shop that you patronize....but, please do not waste your time bashing the competition to direct business to your tuner....
It's low class....and very transparent....
Chuck CoW
Several of you were kind enough to offer your opinions and offer recommendations for various local shops...Unfortunately, most of you recommended your favorite local shop and simultaneously took cheap shots at CoW trying to discredit a very popular tuner with a fantastic reputation and excellent results in an effort to promote your favorite tuner.
What I don't see here is customers of CoW or the owner or employees of CoW making derogatory comments about his competitors in an effort to direct business to CoW. They simply state their experiences with CoW and report on their positive experiences with CoW and offer their recommendations.
For some reason, the few that are promoting the other shops feel the need to sling mud at CoW (despite their excellent reputation) in an effort to promote their favorite shop and direct business away from CoW.
QUESTION: Why is it then that you WILL NEVER SEE CoW or his EMPLOYEES, or CUSTOMERS BAD MOUTHING OTHER VENDORS to promote CoW???
ANSWER: The owners, employees, and customers of CoW believe that it is unnecessary and inappropriate to bash other vendors in an effort to promote CoW. Our reputation speaks for itself and it is totally inappropriate to drag other vendors down wile promoting ourselves.
It appears that those of you hell bent on discrediting CoW should concentrate on the positives of the business you patronize rather than inventing negatives about competitors who are a threat to you and your favorite tuner.
LET'S ALL GROW UP HERE. ABSOLUTELY, promote the shop that you patronize....but, please do not waste your time bashing the competition to direct business to your tuner....
It's low class....and very transparent....
Chuck CoW
I can't agree more. What I don't understand is how anyone can bash someone or some company if they have not tried or used their services.
When I read a post like that, I usually automatically discredit that person because they they don't know what they are talking about.
I also have never read or know anyone of CoW customers who have complained about them.
Last edited by Chuck01; Sep 4, 2008 at 02:34 AM.
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Michael S. Palmer
Pro
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 660
Likes: 3
From: Bethlehem PA
From what I see here....It looks like....The original poster is looking for a shop in or around NYC to work on his vette...
Several of you were kind enough to offer your opinions and offer recommendations for various local shops...Unfortunately, most of you recommended your favorite local shop and simultaneously took cheap shots at CoW trying to discredit a very popular tuner with a fantastic reputation and excellent results in an effort to promote your favorite tuner.
What I don't see here is customers of CoW or the owner or employees of CoW making derogatory comments about his competitors in an effort to direct business to CoW. They simply state their experiences with CoW and report on their positive experiences with CoW and offer their recommendations.
For some reason, the few that are promoting the other shops feel the need to sling mud at CoW (despite their excellent reputation) in an effort to promote their favorite shop and direct business away from CoW.
QUESTION: Why is it then that you WILL NEVER SEE CoW or his EMPLOYEES, or CUSTOMERS BAD MOUTHING OTHER VENDORS to promote CoW???
ANSWER: The owners, employees, and customers of CoW believe that it is unnecessary and inappropriate to bash other vendors in an effort to promote CoW. Our reputation speaks for itself and it is totally inappropriate to drag other vendors down wile promoting ourselves.
It appears that those of you hell bent on discrediting CoW should concentrate on the positives of the business you patronize rather than inventing negatives about competitors who are a threat to you and your favorite tuner.
LET'S ALL GROW UP HERE. ABSOLUTELY, promote the shop that you patronize....but, please do not waste your time bashing the competition to direct business to your tuner....
It's low class....and very transparent....
Chuck CoW
Several of you were kind enough to offer your opinions and offer recommendations for various local shops...Unfortunately, most of you recommended your favorite local shop and simultaneously took cheap shots at CoW trying to discredit a very popular tuner with a fantastic reputation and excellent results in an effort to promote your favorite tuner.
What I don't see here is customers of CoW or the owner or employees of CoW making derogatory comments about his competitors in an effort to direct business to CoW. They simply state their experiences with CoW and report on their positive experiences with CoW and offer their recommendations.
For some reason, the few that are promoting the other shops feel the need to sling mud at CoW (despite their excellent reputation) in an effort to promote their favorite shop and direct business away from CoW.
QUESTION: Why is it then that you WILL NEVER SEE CoW or his EMPLOYEES, or CUSTOMERS BAD MOUTHING OTHER VENDORS to promote CoW???
ANSWER: The owners, employees, and customers of CoW believe that it is unnecessary and inappropriate to bash other vendors in an effort to promote CoW. Our reputation speaks for itself and it is totally inappropriate to drag other vendors down wile promoting ourselves.
It appears that those of you hell bent on discrediting CoW should concentrate on the positives of the business you patronize rather than inventing negatives about competitors who are a threat to you and your favorite tuner.
LET'S ALL GROW UP HERE. ABSOLUTELY, promote the shop that you patronize....but, please do not waste your time bashing the competition to direct business to your tuner....
It's low class....and very transparent....
Chuck CoW
Chuck,
I am not bashing your business. I am sure you give great customer servcie and treat your customers with respect.
That being said....
I am simply stating that you really need a dyno to tune cars properly. Sure you can street tune a car, but your not going to see the performace gains at WOT without a dyno. It is not like the old days, where you turn a screw on a caberator anymore. It drives me crazy to see guys buying "mail order tunes or street tunes" and thinking that car car will run better. I am sure in some cases the car is worse off.
A good exapmple is changing shift points. If you rasie the shift points on a car, how do you know if your causing valve float or not with out running the car on a dyno?
There are 3 other tuners in the north east that have broken records racing and have great reputations. They all have one thing in common. They dyno tune their cars.
Last edited by orangecrrrush; Sep 4, 2008 at 08:14 AM.
Drifting
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,904
Likes: 2
From: London(UK)/Troyes(France)
torchvette10,
Just so I understand this clearly, according to your profile, you are Polish, live in Europe, and somehow split your time between England and France.
That's 3,000 miles away.
Your car, according to your sig, is tuned by Phil Hoefler in Michigan. Call that another 1,000 miles away.
So, you've never actually used any of the shops you discuss in your posts, yet you feel you can make authoritative (and in one case, belittling) comments about them. Have you ever actually been in the U.S.?
On the other hand, I have been to each of these shops over the last eight years, have used at least some of them for my own car (including their dyno when Vette Doctors didn't have one and was still going to Lizzard Racing, another speed shop across town -- you do know about that, don't you?). I also have close friends who have had experience with these shops, and live within 10-100 miles of all the shops.
Do you think it's fair that you give such emphatic advice on shops that you have never seen, visited, used, and only heard about while sitting in France?
As for the shops, I used ECS as I made a present to my dad. He owns a 2008 C6 Z06. I bought him a ECS supercharger kit (Novi 1500 self contained HU) as well as a twin disk clutch, a tune from Doug, EFI live, brakes and I can keep going. I don't spend my life on the forum, and my dad is not a member so you don't know it all. If you don't believe, please call Chris @ ECS and ask for David from France. You can check with the shop directly. Oh and I forgot, I have several ECS parts on my own C5
PS I have used almost every sponsor on this forum. I just did not go with those who do not deserve my trust
Last edited by torchvette10; Sep 4, 2008 at 08:16 AM.
Drifting
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,904
Likes: 2
From: London(UK)/Troyes(France)
Oh and EHS, I have been to the USA 10 times in 10 years of time. Even more if I had to count an unfortunate accident that made me go back to France and then come back to NY. Bill Curlee knows about it. We met that summer and had a great time
I can pretend to know something about cars as this is not the first I built (my C5) and I know how to differentiate REAL tuners from the rest even sitting in France. My car is the proof as well as many others that have been reliably hitting the track for YEARS with almost no issues. And they have results to back them up
Have a great day and relax. Everyone is entitled to his own opinion. Mine is that a real tuner has a track background and a dyno. From that point, the tuner in question is good to go, no matter who he is. As long as his cars prove his skills and that he has the equipment necessary to work on them
I can pretend to know something about cars as this is not the first I built (my C5) and I know how to differentiate REAL tuners from the rest
even sitting in France. My car is the proof as well as many others that have been reliably hitting the track for YEARS with almost no issues. And they have results to back them up Have a great day and relax. Everyone is entitled to his own opinion. Mine is that a real tuner has a track background and a dyno. From that point, the tuner in question is good to go, no matter who he is. As long as his cars prove his skills and that he has the equipment necessary to work on them
Last edited by torchvette10; Sep 4, 2008 at 08:18 AM.
Safety Car
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,325
Likes: 0
From: You can't get there from here NJ
St. Jude Donor '08-'09
There are alot of good tuners in the area, and everyone has their favorite.All that I can say is that Chuck has my car running great, when others did not get the job done.My tune was done over the winter, and the car has been great ever since then. Some people like to post numbers, which is cool if that's what impresses you, and it's certainly a way of measuring results.It all depends on your car and what mods you have, and what your intentions are for it's use and performance goals. Make your choice based on all these things. I like Chuck's work, and there are alot of others who have gone to him to get great results too.
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,258
Likes: 0
From: Home Southern Maine
St. Jude Donor '08
Hands down, ECS (East Coast Supercharging) in Jersey. Contast Doug or Chris. First Class business!! Take the trip!! 
You wont be sorry!http://www.eastcoastsupercharging.co...rChargers.html
Bill C
So far so good! Tranny and rear upgrade yesterday
Tuning by Doug today....
Pro
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 660
Likes: 3
From: Bethlehem PA
Safety Car
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,325
Likes: 0
From: You can't get there from here NJ
St. Jude Donor '08-'09
Chuck,
I am not bashing your business. I am sure you give great customer servcie and treat your customers with respect.
That being said....
I am simply stating that you really need a dyno to tune cars properly. Sure you can street tune a car, but your not going to see the performace gains at WOT without a dyno. It is not like the old days, where you turn a screw on a caberator anymore. It drives me crazy to see guys buying "mail order tunes or street tunes" and thinking that car car will run better. I am sure in some cases the car is worse off.
A good exapmple is changing shift points. If you rasie the shift points on a car, how do you know if your causing valve float or not with out running the car on a dyno?
There are 3 other tuners in the north east that have broken records racing and have great reputations. They all have one thing in common. They dyno tune their cars.
I am not bashing your business. I am sure you give great customer servcie and treat your customers with respect.
That being said....
I am simply stating that you really need a dyno to tune cars properly. Sure you can street tune a car, but your not going to see the performace gains at WOT without a dyno. It is not like the old days, where you turn a screw on a caberator anymore. It drives me crazy to see guys buying "mail order tunes or street tunes" and thinking that car car will run better. I am sure in some cases the car is worse off.
A good exapmple is changing shift points. If you rasie the shift points on a car, how do you know if your causing valve float or not with out running the car on a dyno?
There are 3 other tuners in the north east that have broken records racing and have great reputations. They all have one thing in common. They dyno tune their cars.
Premium Supporting Vendor
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 23,599
Likes: 1,226
From: Providing the most proven supercharger kits for your C5/6/7 609-752-0321
I hate to point out the obvious here, but any of the major tuners will Handel the job just fine. YOUR CAR IS STOCK!! 
Every major tuner stated here knows the basics that are shut off or turned on as a start on any tune basically, from there lets say there is a 15rwhp gain for conversation, so lets say one gains you 10% more then the other? That's only 1.5 HP!!! There wont be any necessary VE table correcting in this situation, or any of the items that really make one tuner shine over the other.
It's like comparing Jiffy lube to Grease Monkey for an oil change, but if you wanted deeper work then I would look much deeper into the situation. You will always get that one guy that things didn't work out with this one or that one, but it's usually from an odd ball problem since past history is fine with all of us. I have had cars in from every tuner in this area, and I'm sure they have had some of our cars in for what ever reason too.
Mind you this is coming from the tuner who holds the fastest NA stock engine record, and the fastest F/I stock engine records for C5. It's not about who's better for your application because the difference is so minuscule, map quest who closest and go there, any of the major tuners listed will handle your car fine.
Every major tuner stated here knows the basics that are shut off or turned on as a start on any tune basically, from there lets say there is a 15rwhp gain for conversation, so lets say one gains you 10% more then the other? That's only 1.5 HP!!! There wont be any necessary VE table correcting in this situation, or any of the items that really make one tuner shine over the other.
It's like comparing Jiffy lube to Grease Monkey for an oil change, but if you wanted deeper work then I would look much deeper into the situation. You will always get that one guy that things didn't work out with this one or that one, but it's usually from an odd ball problem since past history is fine with all of us. I have had cars in from every tuner in this area, and I'm sure they have had some of our cars in for what ever reason too.
Mind you this is coming from the tuner who holds the fastest NA stock engine record, and the fastest F/I stock engine records for C5. It's not about who's better for your application because the difference is so minuscule, map quest who closest and go there, any of the major tuners listed will handle your car fine.
Former Vendor
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 11,792
Likes: 255
From: Ossining New York
St. Jude Donor '07-'08-'09-'10-'12-'13-'14
Thank you!
I hate to point out the obvious here, but any of the major tuners will Handel the job just fine. YOUR CAR IS STOCK!!
Every major tuner stated here knows the basics that are shut off or turned on as a start on any tune basically, from there lets say there is a 15rwhp gain for conversation, so lets say one gains you 10% more then the other? That's only 1.5 HP!!! There wont be any necessary VE table correcting in this situation, or any of the items that really make one tuner shine over the other.
It's like comparing Jiffy lube to Grease Monkey for an oil change, but if you wanted deeper work then I would look much deeper into the situation. You will always get that one guy that things didn't work out with this one or that one, but it's usually from an odd ball problem since past history is fine with all of us. I have had cars in from every tuner in this area, and I'm sure they have had some of our cars in for what ever reason too.
Mind you this is coming from the tuner who holds the fastest NA stock engine record, and the fastest F/I stock engine records for C5. It's not about who's better for your application because the difference is so minuscule, map quest who closest and go there, any of the major tuners listed will handle your car fine.
Every major tuner stated here knows the basics that are shut off or turned on as a start on any tune basically, from there lets say there is a 15rwhp gain for conversation, so lets say one gains you 10% more then the other? That's only 1.5 HP!!! There wont be any necessary VE table correcting in this situation, or any of the items that really make one tuner shine over the other.
It's like comparing Jiffy lube to Grease Monkey for an oil change, but if you wanted deeper work then I would look much deeper into the situation. You will always get that one guy that things didn't work out with this one or that one, but it's usually from an odd ball problem since past history is fine with all of us. I have had cars in from every tuner in this area, and I'm sure they have had some of our cars in for what ever reason too.
Mind you this is coming from the tuner who holds the fastest NA stock engine record, and the fastest F/I stock engine records for C5. It's not about who's better for your application because the difference is so minuscule, map quest who closest and go there, any of the major tuners listed will handle your car fine.
FORUM MEMBERS: This is getting silly. REGARDLESS of who your tuner is, PROMOTE "YOUR GUY" by boasting about their accomplishments and their strong points.....
DON'T promote "YOUR GUY" by publicly trashing the "OTHER GUY"...It looks bad and despite your good intentions....You're not helping "YOUR GUY"....You're embarrassing him. As vendors, we frown on that type of stuff.
Let's stop this crap.
Chuck CoW
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,130
Likes: 3
From: Winter Park FL
Only guy I'm trying to help is the OP looking for the tune. I know a tune on a stock car is pretty basic and any tuner in the area can hopefully do a decent job at it. Thats why all I said was to make sure he doesn't get his PCM locked.
