2 questions about afr's
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,008
Likes: 1
From: Gibbstown New Jersey
2 questions about afr's
1. what sponsor here has the BEST price on 205's. I'm thinking they would be the best head for my 224 cam and would still be fine if i ever went just a little bigger
2. Price is a concern realistically how much more HP and TQ would these heads provide me? I'm really just looking to break the 400 HP to the wheels barrier. Wouldnt PRC cnc ported heads get me there on my A4 and save me roughly 1000 dollars so i could get my rims powder coated and get some tint
Looking for some honest thoughts not the old "you get what you pay for "cause that isnt all ways the case.
I'd like to see what people have gained by adding just afr 205's to a mild cam.
Thanks alot
2. Price is a concern realistically how much more HP and TQ would these heads provide me? I'm really just looking to break the 400 HP to the wheels barrier. Wouldnt PRC cnc ported heads get me there on my A4 and save me roughly 1000 dollars so i could get my rims powder coated and get some tint
Looking for some honest thoughts not the old "you get what you pay for "cause that isnt all ways the case.
I'd like to see what people have gained by adding just afr 205's to a mild cam.
Thanks alot
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 11,405
Likes: 26
From: Whippany NJ
CI 6-7-8-9 Veteran
St. Jude Donor '08-'09
NCM Sinkhole Donor
Former Vendor
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,518
Likes: 7
From: Valencia CA
224 ish cam and a set of AFR's milled for a little more static CR and a thin gasket (better quench) will likely yield you in the vicinity of 75 HP and a huge boost in part throttle performance (tip in, throttle response, etc.) Even better mileage if you keep your foot out of it....add a ported 92/90 and stretch those gains closer to 100 HP with even more low end snap and SOTP feel.
Big money equals big power gains everywhere and an increase in drivability and the good ole fun factor across the board....
PM or call me if you need any other input/advice etc.
Cheers,
Tony
(661)257-8124 Ext. 109
Big money equals big power gains everywhere and an increase in drivability and the good ole fun factor across the board....
PM or call me if you need any other input/advice etc.
Cheers,
Tony
(661)257-8124 Ext. 109
Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 8,004
Likes: 250
From: Tampa Fl
St. Jude Donor '12-'13-'14
I had the TR224 cam and stock heads with all the bolt ons
I dyno'd at 370 RWHP. I like that way the car ran, but :
I changed cams to the TSP228R, added AFR heads milled .020, and 3.90 gears I dyno'd the car again on a differant dyno a couple years later and the car came in at 425 RWHP. ( be plus or minus 10 RWHP on any given dyno)
A couple differances came into play here :
1) At that time of my second dyno, my tune really sucked and had some misfiring and timing was getting pulled in the upper RPMS
2) I had changed gears from stock 3.42 to 3.90. That will show some loss in RWHP and RWTQ
The math I did was I added 10 RWHP for the change from TR224 to
TSP228R and added 40 RWHP for AFR heads baced on stock gears.
I came out with about 5 more RWHP than I thought even after I added the 3.90s
The car is dialed in pretty good now, and runs much better than on the day I dyno'd it. If I dyno's it now, Id be about 440RWHP with the not really ported FAST 90/90 added.
This is the important part. Pull up my dyno in my sig and take a look at my torque numbers on the 425 RWHP pull. My torque is 400 RWHP. I think the torque numbers on AFR heads are higher than non AFR heads. TQ is were the fun is !
You'll enjoy the car ALOT !
I dyno'd at 370 RWHP. I like that way the car ran, but :
I changed cams to the TSP228R, added AFR heads milled .020, and 3.90 gears I dyno'd the car again on a differant dyno a couple years later and the car came in at 425 RWHP. ( be plus or minus 10 RWHP on any given dyno)
A couple differances came into play here :
1) At that time of my second dyno, my tune really sucked and had some misfiring and timing was getting pulled in the upper RPMS
2) I had changed gears from stock 3.42 to 3.90. That will show some loss in RWHP and RWTQ
The math I did was I added 10 RWHP for the change from TR224 to
TSP228R and added 40 RWHP for AFR heads baced on stock gears.
I came out with about 5 more RWHP than I thought even after I added the 3.90s
The car is dialed in pretty good now, and runs much better than on the day I dyno'd it. If I dyno's it now, Id be about 440RWHP with the not really ported FAST 90/90 added.
This is the important part. Pull up my dyno in my sig and take a look at my torque numbers on the 425 RWHP pull. My torque is 400 RWHP. I think the torque numbers on AFR heads are higher than non AFR heads. TQ is were the fun is !
You'll enjoy the car ALOT !
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 11,060
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From: Pasco WA
From a SOTP standpoint, you'd probably get more out of a converter and gears, than a set of heads. However, the AFR 205s, and that cam will be a great combo on an A4. Get 'em milled, like Tony says.
Former Vendor
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,518
Likes: 7
From: Valencia CA
Phil's math a few posts above looks pretty good....
Of course he aleady had a cam so a big potential gain from a stocker was already accounted for.
My math of a 100 RWHP gains breaks down as follows (and this isnt "ricer math".....LOL....these gains I have witnessed numerous times on both engine and chassis dynos).
Heads....35-40 HP
Cam....40-45 HP (mild cam like our 224/228 AFR cam)
UD pulley (no brainer mod while your there)....5 HP
Ported FAST 92/90 set-up....20-25 HP
ALL of these figures are very realistic....add them up
BTW....all of them already assume a decent set of 1.75 headers....that's a must that needs to be included to reap the most gains from everything else discussed.
Call or PM me if you need some advice...
Cheers,
Tony
(661)257-8124 Ext. 109
Of course he aleady had a cam so a big potential gain from a stocker was already accounted for.
My math of a 100 RWHP gains breaks down as follows (and this isnt "ricer math".....LOL....these gains I have witnessed numerous times on both engine and chassis dynos).
Heads....35-40 HP
Cam....40-45 HP (mild cam like our 224/228 AFR cam)
UD pulley (no brainer mod while your there)....5 HP
Ported FAST 92/90 set-up....20-25 HP
ALL of these figures are very realistic....add them up
BTW....all of them already assume a decent set of 1.75 headers....that's a must that needs to be included to reap the most gains from everything else discussed.
Call or PM me if you need some advice...
Cheers,
Tony
(661)257-8124 Ext. 109
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From: You can't get there from here NJ
St. Jude Donor '08-'09
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From: Whippany NJ
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St. Jude Donor '08-'09
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According to google maps, im 1.5 hour north from you. However i will be at NJ Motorsports Park next Monday 9/15 for the ECS track rental which is closer to you
Last edited by Ikester; Sep 8, 2008 at 08:14 PM.
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 11,405
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From: Whippany NJ
CI 6-7-8-9 Veteran
St. Jude Donor '08-'09
NCM Sinkhole Donor
Never ridden in Ike's car, but I have seen it run a time or two!!
Very impressive!!!
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 1999
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From: At the beach in little Rhody
I originally wanted AFR's, but the Dart's looked good on paper when they came out and were reasonably priced. They have been a good reliable head and I haven't had any problems with them. That being said, I just dropped the money for AFR's and the AFR 6016 cam (will upgrade cam from current 216/224). I guess it goes without saying I think I am making a good upgrade 
Race Director
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From: Whippany NJ
CI 6-7-8-9 Veteran
St. Jude Donor '08-'09
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Drifting
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From: South Florida
I've been following this and some similar posts...waiting to hear on some pricing as the poster asked. I've even started (barely) a spread sheet to figure the cost of the upgrade. I heard someone "talk" around 10k all said and done... so far that seems close to on track. Waiting for people to chime in. Also, some part numbers and specs are missing in this and other posts to get dead on, but generically:
This post talked about
AFR 205 heads (from AFR)-----$2365 assembled, is milling it more?
Cam 224/XXX (from AFR) -----$400
gaskets (what kind?) -----------------$50
underdrive pulley (what kind?)-------$240
FAST 90/92(?)-------------------$1000, $2k if ported
Long Tubes (LG w/ cat back)----$2000
Not mentioned here, but does he (or anyone) need a new throttle body? LS2, BBK, ported? What about rocker arms, springs, push rods? What else am I missing? What vendors have good prices?
What about a clutch?-----------$2000
Edit 1:
okay just reread the original post and he was just asking about AFR head vendors...so I expounded a little...sorry to thread jack.
Edit 2:
And of course a tune, or the tuning software $500
This post talked about
AFR 205 heads (from AFR)-----$2365 assembled, is milling it more?
Cam 224/XXX (from AFR) -----$400
gaskets (what kind?) -----------------$50
underdrive pulley (what kind?)-------$240
FAST 90/92(?)-------------------$1000, $2k if ported
Long Tubes (LG w/ cat back)----$2000
Not mentioned here, but does he (or anyone) need a new throttle body? LS2, BBK, ported? What about rocker arms, springs, push rods? What else am I missing? What vendors have good prices?
What about a clutch?-----------$2000
Edit 1:
okay just reread the original post and he was just asking about AFR head vendors...so I expounded a little...sorry to thread jack.
Edit 2:
And of course a tune, or the tuning software $500
Last edited by Smokin Joe; Sep 8, 2008 at 11:38 PM.
